novisnick
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Post by novisnick on May 6, 2015 13:10:46 GMT -5
Music is in the ear of the beholder...
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Post by garbulky on May 6, 2015 13:11:26 GMT -5
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,223
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Post by novisnick on May 6, 2015 13:18:56 GMT -5
Now that you reminded my,,,,,I had forgotten about them,,,,,,,,,,,but I'm looking for Emotiva Tube amps!! ,,,,,,,,,,but I think you know that as well!!!
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Post by audiobill on May 6, 2015 13:19:04 GMT -5
Class D?!!!!!! Class D?!!!!! I'm looking for Classe T amps,,,,,,T as in TUBES!!!!!!
There are many excellent tube choices .....what are you waiting for?
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Post by MusicHead on May 6, 2015 13:19:09 GMT -5
Pioneer has done some good work with switching amps. See here: www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/Class+D+Amps+and+Direct+Energy+HD+AmplifiersClass D is swiftly taking over the audiophile market, the only people still complaining about how they sound are the manufacturers who still make the Class A vacuum tube and Class AB solid state amps from the last century. With Class D you get 66% more output power for 1/3rd the price and lower your audio system’s power consumption by more than 50%, lowering your electricity bill as well. Small, efficient and cool operating...sounds good to me. Of all the consumer manufacturers, Pioneer have totally embraced Class-D. I have not had the chance so far to hear one of their AVRs, however from a "raw power" standpoint, they are up to something. Numbers are not everything, but see how their Elite SC-71 measures: www.soundandvision.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-71-av-receiver-test-benchAn this was a $1,000 receiver when it came out. Impressive 8 Ohm vs. 4 Ohm power capability and it also holds power quite well when going from 2 to 5 and then 7 channels driven simultaneously. Achieving the same with a Class AB amp would make it weight 100lbs Can't wait to see what our geniuses at Emotiva cooked up with Class D!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by MusicHead on May 6, 2015 13:24:45 GMT -5
Tripath's Class-T is actually a quite interesting implementation of the Class-D topology. I had looked at it a while ago: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-T_amplifierBut still no "T" as in "Tubes", sorry!
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ratso
Emo VIPs
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Post by ratso on May 6, 2015 13:26:20 GMT -5
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Post by jmilton on May 6, 2015 14:04:26 GMT -5
Music is in the ear of the beholder... Yeah, I was going to say "eye of the beholder", but we know how that turned out...
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Post by garbulky on May 6, 2015 14:21:57 GMT -5
Where is @chuckienut? Anybody heard from him?
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,934
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Post by KeithL on May 6, 2015 14:25:07 GMT -5
I have several of the TA2020 based amps, and most of them sound quite good. The only real issue is the limitation of around 15 wpc (x2). (Unless you're a "measurement purist" - in which case the high levels of high frequency noise that gets through the output filters is a bit scary.) Try one (you can't go too far wrong; you can get one on eBay for $39). Tripath's Class-T is actually a quite interesting implementation of the Class-D topology. I had looked at it a while ago: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-T_amplifierBut still no "T" as in "Tubes", sorry!
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Post by teaman on May 6, 2015 14:38:51 GMT -5
I understand the use of Class D amps with their light weight and low cost of manufacture but I will stick with my so called "boat anchors". I have heard my share of high power Class D amps and so far I have not been impressed. You need to pretty much max them out to get them to bring the sound pressure. Most of my speakers employ 12 and 15 inch woofers and with the Class D amps I have used the woofers barely move. Glad to keep using high power boat anchors in my house.
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Post by postjack on May 6, 2015 14:47:26 GMT -5
This was just what I was looking for before my recent XPA-2 purchase: a small form factor, high power class D amp at a price more reasonable than the competition (wyred 4 sound and d-sonic). But Emotiva had them beat on price/power ratio, the only sacrifice being a much larger, much heavier amp.
I really love my XPA-2, so no complaints here, but I am looking forward to seeing what Emotiva comes up with.
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Post by audiobill on May 6, 2015 14:51:13 GMT -5
I understand the use of Class D amps with their light weight and low cost of manufacture but I will stick with my so called "boat anchors". I have heard my share of high power Class D amps and so far I have not been impressed. You need to pretty much max them out to get them to bring the sound pressure. Most of my speakers employ 12 and 15 inch woofers and with the Class D amps I have used the woofers barely move. Glad to keep using high power boat anchors in my house. Kind of like heat pumps on a house........
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on May 6, 2015 15:05:09 GMT -5
But, then, you won't see a very nice looking square wave coming from your speakers either; luckily for us we don't listen to square waves anyway. As the article said, square waves can be a handy diagnostic tool (although, lately, they've mostly been replaced with impulse tests). With analog amplifiers, how well the amplifier can reproduce very high and very low frequencies (which is what square waves show) is often an indicator of how well it can reproduce audio frequencies. (More specifically, if you know how to read them, certain flaws in square wave response can point out flaws inside the audio band which may well be audible.) Back when being able to reproduce very high and very low frequencies was difficult from a design point of view, this was very useful information. However, modern designs often have the exact opposite issue - the bandwidth needs to be deliberately limited to prevent the amplifier from amplifying things like the high frequency noise leakage from your cordless phone. Therefore, while being able to reproduce a designed-for frequency band is important, the old idea of "more is better" isn't necessarily true any more. With Class D amplifiers, this is even more true. A Class D amplifier is designed to reproduce a certain range of frequencies (audio), while the output section is carefully designed NOT to pass frequencies outside the desired frequency range. While you certainly could design a Class D amplifier that could produce nice looking 10 kHz square waves, doing so would make the amplifier a lot more expensive to design and produce, but wouldn't necessarily improve its performance in the audio band - or make it sound better. To put it bluntly, while square waves can be a handy and useful diagnostic tool, being able to reproduce clean square waves simply is NOT a design requirement for a good sounding audio amplifier. have yet to se a square wave from a class d that looks good, or even resembles a square wave. hypex ncore looked more like a drunk sinus. says "ICE" in the original link, so its a complete Icepower from Denmark then? Rotel tried to modify theirs, didnt work out. complex stuff, even a small circuit change can render it useless. had a few icepower (ASP & ASX2), never broken more drivers with any amp(!)
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Post by jmilton on May 6, 2015 15:05:31 GMT -5
I thought many powered sub woofers were class D. No?
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,223
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Post by novisnick on May 6, 2015 15:05:38 GMT -5
Class D?!!!!!! Class D?!!!!! I'm looking for Classe T amps,,,,,,T as in TUBES!!!!!!
There are many excellent tube choices .....what are you waiting for? I guess I'm looking for $2800.00 ,,,,,,, Dont know if I'll like/love/lukewarm them? Or how well they'll drive my speakers? im a blind man that's never tasted broccoli!! Don't know what it tastes like ,,,,,,how to cook it ,,,,,,,,,,,or how to grow and pick it,,,,,,besides all of that,,,,,,,I know everything about tubes there is to know!!,,
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,934
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Post by KeithL on May 6, 2015 15:07:31 GMT -5
Up until now we hadn't been able to find any Class D amplifier designs that met our combined requirement of good sound and reasonable cost (we're not interesting in building an amp that doesn't sound good, or in trying to one that sounds good, but that you need a mortgage to afford). The design options available for Class D amplification have finally reached the point where they constitute a viable alternative. I understand the use of Class D amps with their light weight and low cost of manufacture but I will stick with my so called "boat anchors". I have heard my share of high power Class D amps and so far I have not been impressed. You need to pretty much max them out to get them to bring the sound pressure. Most of my speakers employ 12 and 15 inch woofers and with the Class D amps I have used the woofers barely move. Glad to keep using high power boat anchors in my house.
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Post by MusicHead on May 6, 2015 16:52:54 GMT -5
Up until now we hadn't been able to find any Class D amplifier designs that met our combined requirement of good sound and reasonable cost (we're not interesting in building an amp that doesn't sound good, or in trying to one that sounds good, but that you need a mortgage to afford). The design options available for Class D amplification have finally reached the point where they constitute a viable alternative. I understand the use of Class D amps with their light weight and low cost of manufacture but I will stick with my so called "boat anchors". I have heard my share of high power Class D amps and so far I have not been impressed. You need to pretty much max them out to get them to bring the sound pressure. Most of my speakers employ 12 and 15 inch woofers and with the Class D amps I have used the woofers barely move. Glad to keep using high power boat anchors in my house. Keith, now you got me curious . If I may ask, what kind of design options have developed more recently that were not available in the past? Are you talking about components availability or rather about the "collective experience" of the design community that has been building over the many years since the first commercial Class-D designs, which allows now to design a good sounding, yet affordable amp in such topology?
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Post by garbulky on May 6, 2015 16:56:30 GMT -5
But, then, you won't see a very nice looking square wave coming from your speakers either; luckily for us we don't listen to square waves anyway. As the article said, square waves can be a handy diagnostic tool (although, lately, they've mostly been replaced with impulse tests). With analog amplifiers, how well the amplifier can reproduce very high and very low frequencies (which is what square waves show) is often an indicator of how well it can reproduce audio frequencies. (More specifically, if you know how to read them, certain flaws in square wave response can point out flaws inside the audio band which may well be audible.) Back when being able to reproduce very high and very low frequencies was difficult from a design point of view, this was very useful information. However, modern designs often have the exact opposite issue - the bandwidth needs to be deliberately limited to prevent the amplifier from amplifying things like the high frequency noise leakage from your cordless phone. Therefore, while being able to reproduce a designed-for frequency band is important, the old idea of "more is better" isn't necessarily true any more. With Class D amplifiers, this is even more true. A Class D amplifier is designed to reproduce a certain range of frequencies (audio), while the output section is carefully designed NOT to pass frequencies outside the desired frequency range. While you certainly could design a Class D amplifier that could produce nice looking 10 kHz square waves, doing so would make the amplifier a lot more expensive to design and produce, but wouldn't necessarily improve its performance in the audio band - or make it sound better. To put it bluntly, while square waves can be a handy and useful diagnostic tool, being able to reproduce clean square waves simply is NOT a design requirement for a good sounding audio amplifier. have yet to se a square wave from a class d that looks good, or even resembles a square wave. hypex ncore looked more like a drunk sinus. says "ICE" in the original link, so its a complete Icepower from Denmark then? Rotel tried to modify theirs, didnt work out. complex stuff, even a small circuit change can render it useless. had a few icepower (ASP & ASX2), never broken more drivers with any amp(!) Apparently...a certain magnepan (or was it quad?) speaker could actually reproduce something of a square wave.
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Post by audiobill on May 6, 2015 17:54:56 GMT -5
I would never, ever want to listen to a square wave.......
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