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Post by pedrocols on May 18, 2015 9:30:41 GMT -5
Personally, I do not need Dirac or a 2k processor for my two channel listening. Moreover, I do not even use a preamp for my two channel set up. Maybe one day my preferences will change as I am an open-minded individual. So no alternatives good and cheaper alternatives with Dirac in the same context as you suggested earlier? FWIW, I have nothing against SWs in general and in particular SVS SB-13, I even have one myself. Like I already mentioned I am not for now interested in Dirac. You keep on mentioning Dirac as if it is indispensable, which is not, to be able to enjoy a superb two channel set up. If you already own a coputer you can use Dirac. In addition, there are plenty and even more plenty of good DACs like Yulong and Audio GD and even Schiit.
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Post by qdtjni on May 18, 2015 9:59:30 GMT -5
Of course one can live without Dirac, but you are the one that stated there where good and cheaper alternative with Dirac. Now you want to limit that to something else....
But if you want to limit the scope to good 2 channel reproduction from a computer, why not skip the whole speakers and power amps thin and go for a good headphone pre-amp/DAC and some good head phones but then we're getting quite far from the OPs original topic.
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Post by 134lrs on May 18, 2015 10:00:31 GMT -5
Schiit Yggdrasil: $2299
Would be a must if you ask me. Your budget allows you to afford such an amazing DAC. Speakers are VERY subjective. I personally would recommend the Clearwave Aperture S52 Monitors: $2250. I used to own the DIY version and they are AMAZING. I will have another pair. A Parasound Amp would complement the above components very nicely. As I mentioned above, a Rythmik sub would also be wonderful.
HOWEVER, I am also a BIG fan of the Electrocompaniet ECI 5 MK II or better yet the ECI 6 which is an integrated amp. It has it all in one source. I have extensive listening experience with the Mk II and think its awesome. They also make the most beautiful components available IMO. But that too, is subjective.
Just my $.02
-Bill
Edit: Since Dirac seems to be a hot topic in this thread, I'll comment. IMHO, you don't need Dirac in that small of space. Proper positioning and room treatments are MONUMENTAL at improving your overall sound quality. Dirac is awesome, and a great tool, but no where near as important as the former.
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Post by qdtjni on May 18, 2015 10:17:10 GMT -5
Edit: Since Dirac seems to be a hot topic in this thread, I'll comment. IMHO, you don't need Dirac in that small of space. Proper positioning and room treatments are MONUMENTAL in the improvements that can be made in your overall sound quality. Dirac is awesome, and a great tool, but no where near as important as the former. Not that I am against room treatment and positioning , on the contrary, you should do as much as possible before using ARC. However, I would rather say that if you have a large room you can have better placement of everything and 2nd and 3rd reflexes would not have such big impact since they are arriving relatively late and be more weakened plus you would have less issues with standing waves. So with reasonable room treatments, Dirac do make wonders in small rooms.
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Post by 134lrs on May 18, 2015 10:59:13 GMT -5
Edit: Since Dirac seems to be a hot topic in this thread, I'll comment. IMHO, you don't need Dirac in that small of space. Proper positioning and room treatments are MONUMENTAL in the improvements that can be made in your overall sound quality. Dirac is awesome, and a great tool, but no where near as important as the former. Not that I am against room treatment and positioning , on the contrary, you should do as much as possible before using ARC. However, I would rather say that if you have a large room you can have better placement of everything and 2nd and 3rd reflexes would not have such big impact since they are arriving relatively late and be more weakened plus you would have less issues with standing waves. So with reasonable room treatments, Dirac do make wonders in small rooms. I agree with you completely. Looking back on my post, I should have been more clear on my stance. I am all for ARC or some form of EQ. I was implying that the OP not get held up on Dirac, or other ARC programs. In the past REW has been the most successful for my applications. In my experiences environmental improvments (treatments, speaker positioning, sweet spot, etc) have always yielded the greatest results. Your points on the dynamics of the small room seem very valid.
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on May 18, 2015 11:51:22 GMT -5
The first thing that stands out is there is currently no subwoofer. That room wouldn't require 2 SVS subs. You could also look at the Rythmik subs. Next on the list I would look at DAC's. There are tons on the market and lots of reviews. Why would he need 2 or even 1 sub woofer without specifying main speakers? The OP states that he has Epos Epic 2 speakers. These would benefit from a subwoofer. The OP also inquired about a subwoofer which I believe will be beneficial even if there is a main speaker change. Even larger tower speakers can benefit from a good sub. At this point there are variables. My thought process was simply stating what I felt was missing and what could easily be added to achieve the desired end result.
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Post by qdtjni on May 18, 2015 11:59:33 GMT -5
Thanks for clarifying. All valid points! Maybe it would be a bit too much for a relative room, but then again so could speakers with good deep bass be I realize it sounded like I was questioning rather asking for the thinking behind the recommendation, which was my intention. I play the non native English card as my excuse.
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jlamo
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Post by jlamo on May 18, 2015 12:08:03 GMT -5
My advice would be to first put in some room treatments. I don't think anything is going to sound all that good in the room with those hardwood floors no matter what level of volume. See what that does first and then you can use the room-treated sound as your base from which to judge how much improvement you get from better components. I just think if you upgrade with the room like it is now, nothing is going to sound that wonderful. The room will interfere with your evaluation too much. +1 for room treatments ,I suspect the bass will be a issue with the almost cube like room dimensions.
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on May 18, 2015 12:18:43 GMT -5
My advice would be to first put in some room treatments. I don't think anything is going to sound all that good in the room with those hardwood floors no matter what level of volume. See what that does first and then you can use the room-treated sound as your base from which to judge how much improvement you get from better components. I just think if you upgrade with the room like it is now, nothing is going to sound that wonderful. The room will interfere with your evaluation too much. +1 for room treatments ,I suspect the bass will be a issue with the almost cube like room dimensions. And small rooms. Bass traps will be a worthwhile investment.
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Post by pedrocols on May 18, 2015 13:01:52 GMT -5
Of course one can live without Dirac, but you are the one that stated there where good and cheaper alternative with Dirac. Now you want to limit that to something else.... But if you want to limit the scope to good 2 channel reproduction from a computer, why not skip the whole speakers and power amps thin and go for a good headphone pre-amp/DAC and some good head phones but then we're getting quite far from the OPs original topic. I already mentioned if you have a computer you can get Dirac without having to buy a 2k processor and that is a lot cheaper and can also be good.
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Post by qdtjni on May 18, 2015 13:09:13 GMT -5
Absolutely, it could even be amazing
But I simply stated that within the context of the OPs first post, that the XMC-1 is worth considering. Not sure why you question my opinion., since it's just one way to skin the cat.
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on May 18, 2015 13:14:45 GMT -5
Is a Sonos connect the only source in the system? Will there be other sources with the upgrade? My thought is that you could bypass a pre-amp all together and use the Sonos connected to a DAC which is then connected to an amp. You would just use the Sonos' volume control. You could also look at the DC-1 with a volume control and some basic pre-amp functions.
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Post by brutiarti on May 18, 2015 13:15:36 GMT -5
I have similar room dimensions and right now i'm using bookshelf Dali Helicon 300 speakers and there is no need for a subwoofer at all in my room, the bass traps and room treatment combined with the XPR took control of the extra bass that my parasound A23 couldn't control. I only listening to CDs so a DAC wasn't necessary after i got my Oppo 105 but if i have the budget and use music from files i will definitely give the Yggdrasil a try
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Post by pedrocols on May 18, 2015 13:16:15 GMT -5
Absolutely, it could even be amazing But I simply stated that within the context of the OPs first post, that the XMC-1 is worth considering. Not sure why you question my opinion., since it's just one way to skin the cat. I understand and I am sorry if you misunderstood my point.
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Post by qdtjni on May 18, 2015 13:58:10 GMT -5
No worries! The point I was trying to make is that one get a really good pre-amp with a good DAC and Dirac plus lots of other features with the XMC-1. There's no doubt in my mind that there are better separate DACs to be had, pre-Amos thar are as good and that Dirac can be done in other ways. However, the XMC-1 is darn good offer even for 2-channel without any serious compromises. Can it be done differently? sure. Do one need one need Dirac? No, but at least in my listening room it makes wonders. Would I want the XMC-1 to use 192 KHz sampling, definitive. But in the end, Dirac as is in the XMC-1 is so much better than without for all my sources be it highrres, standard reedbook or LP. I'll stop rambling and get my coat now.
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Post by bluemeanies on May 18, 2015 14:19:19 GMT -5
Looking for a little advice. I hope I'm posting this in the appropriate place. I'm looking to make a pretty significant upgrade to my setup and I'd like some opinions/advice on the direction I'm taking. Perhaps more of a confirmation that I'm not crazy or making a big mistake. First, a little background. I'm looking for a strictly music setup. It's actually for a my home office (a.k.a., my fortress of solitude). The room is 14'x12'x12' with hard wood floors. The acoustics aren't good to say the least and I plan on adding room treatments in the near future. My current setup is a pair of EPOS Epic 2, Peachtree Decco65, Sonos Connect and Pro-Ject Debut Carbon. I listen to a mix of music…Beatles, Pink Floyd, Tom Petty, a lot of indie (e.g., Iron & Wine, Blind Pilot, Death Cab, etc.), a little electronic/trance and classical. My setup has proven to be a good starter but doesn't give me the experience I'm looking for. I want something that sounds amazing at low volumes (when the family is sleeping) and when cranked. I want to be able to turn off the lights, close my eyes and feel immersed. Also, I want something that scales well as I may eventually move it to a bigger room when the kids get a bit older. Looking at the following: Tekton Pendragon Emotiva XSP-1 2x Emotiva XPA-1L DAC --recommendations please Subwoofer -- Is it even necessary? Perhaps 2x SVS SB13-Ultras I've also been looking at the SVS Ultra Towers and Aperion Verus Grands since they are in the same general price range. Thank you in advance for any guidance. I'm new to the audiophile and I'm learning a lot but still so much to learn. When I read that someone wants to make a significant upgrade in their system I tend to think the persons' intent is to spend money. However many a people that have heard my systems don't look at the big picture....money is relative...that is my personal belief. What you may consider expensive I may consider very reasonable. Hence there are people (no disrespect here) that say they want to do a serious upgrade and that upgrade has a small dollar value attached to it. This is not to say that one has to spend tens of thousands but I do believe that a respectable amount is necessary to achieve you personal gold. One rule of thumb that I have learned over the years is that if you do not have all of the finances at once. WAIT! Don't spend money frivolously only to be disappointed and having to sell that new investment only to move up to something more rewarding. We all make mistakes in spending our money on this hobby. I have...to the tune of mucho dinnero. Not this time. I made a significant investment recently with guidance from another forum member and I can say that I am very please if not euphoric to know that my 2channel system not only looks high end but delivers high end first class musical playback on both CD and streaming thru TIDAL. Significant upgrade....TUBES! low volume in triode mode delivers all the nuance I need for my B&W's with only 35watts per channel. That's no type error...you read it right. In addition a good processor/dac Try it...you will be in heaven
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Post by qdtjni on May 18, 2015 14:33:43 GMT -5
35 w is plenty loud with many speakers. What B&Ws do you have?
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 18, 2015 17:11:44 GMT -5
Given the OP has vinyl, I would do this:
Source digital via Sonos OR if your main music is on a NAS, buy a cheap PC, stream via JRiver and get the 2 channel DIRAC directly from Dirac. Source vinyl through an XPS-1 (not XSP-1) into analog input of a preamp or DC-1. Use DC-1 as preamp/volume control and ability to have analog and digital ins. Get either the XPA-1L's or use hypex ncore monoblocks. I would go hypex. Get a sub...SVS or Rhytmik would be where I would look. Get LOTS of room treatments.
After that see what you need...
Mark
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Post by bruleto on May 18, 2015 17:49:26 GMT -5
Is a Sonos connect the only source in the system? Will there be other sources with the upgrade? My thought is that you could bypass a pre-amp all together and use the Sonos connected to a DAC which is then connected to an amp. You would just use the Sonos' volume control. You could also look at the DC-1 with a volume control and some basic pre-amp functions. Sonos and my existing Debut Carbon for vinyl.
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on May 18, 2015 18:20:00 GMT -5
Is a Sonos connect the only source in the system? Will there be other sources with the upgrade? My thought is that you could bypass a pre-amp all together and use the Sonos connected to a DAC which is then connected to an amp. You would just use the Sonos' volume control. You could also look at the DC-1 with a volume control and some basic pre-amp functions. Sonos and my existing Debut Carbon for vinyl. What phono stage are you using?
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