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Post by teaman on May 20, 2015 23:02:43 GMT -5
Just my two cents....since Emotiva is having a sale on factory renewed products, and the XPA-3 is only $670 with a full warranty I would aim for that. I would have said go for the XPA-5 at $820 but I believe they sold out of those. You can use the AVR to power the rears for now and maybe in the future you can add an XPA-2 or a pair of mono block amps for the front mains. Plus.........If you join the Emotiva E-Club you save an additional 10%! Were did you find the XPA-3 for $670? emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/42640/emotiva-secret-saleYou just have to call them!
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bigbucz
Minor Hero
Sorry Payton but time to make room for the new blood adios......
Posts: 49
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Post by bigbucz on May 22, 2015 18:23:12 GMT -5
update: i've decided to go with XPA-5, I'm ordering some banana clips from monoprice but what then.... Balanced vs unbalance uuummm what? Please shine some light my head is hurting?
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Post by Boomzilla on May 22, 2015 18:51:47 GMT -5
Hi bigbucz - I can understand your head hurting. Home theater can be complicated. Breaking it down into categories: You need a disc player (I like Oppo brand ones) The processor sorts out the sound from the disc and routes it to The power amp(s) that amplify the sound and The subwoofer that reproduces the bass Then the speakers reproduce the various channels around the room. A receiver incorporates the processor and power amps into an inexpensive package. The subwoofer typically incorporates its own power amplifier in the box. Now the going gets tricky... The receiver makers typically skimp on their power amps in order to jam as many features as possible into their processor sections. There are exceptions, but the previous sentence is generally true. If you have ALL of the following, then the receiver makes sense: A small room Highly sensitive speakers (that play loudly with little power) An aversion to high volumes If one or more don't sound like you (pun intended), then separates may be the better option. Even multi-channel power amplifiers (like the XPA-3 or XPA-5) have more "guts" than most any receiver on the market. Mono blocks usually have even MORE capacitance and bigger transformers. And they can (often but not always) sound better. That said, it's easy to buy more amplifier than what you really need. There are some on this Lounge (and my friend, novisnick is the gang-leader) who say that one can never have "too much power." That is probably true, but it's also true that many, MANY folks buy FAR more power than what they really NEED. In other words, it's easy to go overboard... If you're using a receiver as a processor, the vast majority of them use unbalanced connectors (also known as RCA plugs): Some (upper end) receivers and (many? most?) processors use "balanced connectors (also known as XLR plugs): In theory, the balanced ones are slightly quieter but in practice, either can suffice. Banana clips for speaker wires work fine, but truthfully, bare wires work just as well. Happy Shopping - Boomzilla
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,228
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Post by novisnick on May 22, 2015 19:30:44 GMT -5
Hey Boomzilla!! Great write up and guidance. Well rounded , with sage advice!
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Post by guzz46 on May 22, 2015 20:21:24 GMT -5
Do you want an AV receiver with all the bells and whistles like room correction, different zones etc...? or just a simple 5.1 setup? If the latter then you could simply buy an Oppo 103/105 or Cambridge 752 and plug it directly into your XPA-5, they have digital inputs, volume control, speaker trim, etc... they're like a stripped down AV receiver, you'll save money not having to purchase an AV receiver, and in my opinion it will probably sound better too.
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bigbucz
Minor Hero
Sorry Payton but time to make room for the new blood adios......
Posts: 49
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Post by bigbucz on May 22, 2015 22:35:28 GMT -5
Do you want an AV receiver with all the bells and whistles like room correction, different zones etc...? or just a simple 5.1 setup? If the latter then you could simply buy an Oppo 103/105 or Cambridge 752 and plug it directly into your XPA-5, they have digital inputs, volume control, speaker trim, etc... they're like a stripped down AV receiver, you'll save money not having to purchase an AV receiver, and in my opinion it will probably sound better too. I think i'll need an AV receiver for all my components ps4 cable box etc etc, since i'm buying the XPA- 5 i'm hoping that I won't need to buy high end receiver
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bigbucz
Minor Hero
Sorry Payton but time to make room for the new blood adios......
Posts: 49
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Post by bigbucz on May 22, 2015 22:38:44 GMT -5
Hi bigbucz - I can understand your head hurting. Home theater can be complicated. Breaking it down into categories: You need a disc player (I like Oppo brand ones) The processor sorts out the sound from the disc and routes it to The power amp(s) that amplify the sound and The subwoofer that reproduces the bass Then the speakers reproduce the various channels around the room. A receiver incorporates the processor and power amps into an inexpensive package. The subwoofer typically incorporates its own power amplifier in the box. Now the going gets tricky... The receiver makers typically skimp on their power amps in order to jam as many features as possible into their processor sections. There are exceptions, but the previous sentence is generally true. If you have ALL of the following, then the receiver makes sense: A small room Highly sensitive speakers (that play loudly with little power) An aversion to high volumes If one or more don't sound like you (pun intended), then separates may be the better option. Even multi-channel power amplifiers (like the XPA-3 or XPA-5) have more "guts" than most any receiver on the market. Mono blocks usually have even MORE capacitance and bigger transformers. And they can (often but not always) sound better. That said, it's easy to buy more amplifier than what you really need. There are some on this Lounge (and my friend, novisnick is the gang-leader) who say that one can never have "too much power." That is probably true, but it's also true that many, MANY folks buy FAR more power than what they really NEED. In other words, it's easy to go overboard... If you're using a receiver as a processor, the vast majority of them use unbalanced connectors (also known as RCA plugs): Some (upper end) receivers and (many? most?) processors use "balanced connectors (also known as XLR plugs): In theory, the balanced ones are slightly quieter but in practice, either can suffice. Banana clips for speaker wires work fine, but truthfully, bare wires work just as well. Happy Shopping - Boomzilla thank you Boomzilla. so unbalanced it is, for now, another question O' wise one, what exactly is the benefit of a pre amp
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Post by guzz46 on May 22, 2015 22:43:20 GMT -5
Do you want an AV receiver with all the bells and whistles like room correction, different zones etc...? or just a simple 5.1 setup? If the latter then you could simply buy an Oppo 103/105 or Cambridge 752 and plug it directly into your XPA-5, they have digital inputs, volume control, speaker trim, etc... they're like a stripped down AV receiver, you'll save money not having to purchase an AV receiver, and in my opinion it will probably sound better too. I think i'll need an AV receiver for all my components ps4 cable box etc etc, since i'm buying the XPA- 5 i'm hoping that I won't need to buy high end receiver How many do you have? I've got a PS4, cable box, and TV all connected to my Cambridge, it has an optical in, coax in, and 2 HDMI in's, plus you can also buy something like an toslink switcher if need be.
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bigbucz
Minor Hero
Sorry Payton but time to make room for the new blood adios......
Posts: 49
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Post by bigbucz on May 22, 2015 23:01:42 GMT -5
I think i'll need an AV receiver for all my components ps4 cable box etc etc, since i'm buying the XPA- 5 i'm hoping that I won't need to buy high end receiver How many do you have? I've got a PS4, cable box, and TV all connected to my Cambridge, it has an optical in, coax in, and 2 HDMI in's, plus you can also buy something like an toslink switcher if need be. Well lets see, there's the PS4, PVR, SAT, APPLE TV 3 & XBOX, Are you saying I could still get away with not using a AV
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Post by guzz46 on May 22, 2015 23:11:07 GMT -5
How many do you have? I've got a PS4, cable box, and TV all connected to my Cambridge, it has an optical in, coax in, and 2 HDMI in's, plus you can also buy something like an toslink switcher if need be. Well lets see, there's the PS4, PVR, SAT, APPLE TV 3 & XBOX, Are you saying I could still get away with not using a AV Yes, if you brought something like this 4-way toslink switcher, or something similar www.amazon.co.uk/Lindy-TosLink-Digital-Optical-Switch/dp/B00517UMNW/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1432353964&sr=1-2&keywords=4-way+toslink+switcherYou could connect 4 components via optical/toslink out, that would still leave a coax input, and an HDMI input at the back unused, I have a simple 3-way switcher, I just turn a knob to switch between different optical sources.
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Post by adaboy on May 23, 2015 1:17:26 GMT -5
I think i'll need an AV receiver for all my components ps4 cable box etc etc, since i'm buying the XPA- 5 i'm hoping that I won't need to buy high end receiver If you are going to use the XPA - 5 you will need a high(er) end receiver to afford you the ability to have pre-outs. Budget AVR's will not have this option for 5 channel setups. Just wanted you to be aware, its a way for the manufactures to ensure sales. If they allowed pre-outs on the weaker amp AVR's there would be no need for their more advanced ones, unless one needed the audio processing etc. Welcome btw.
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Post by avary1 on May 23, 2015 3:49:16 GMT -5
Good point regarding the preouts. Must have to use that XPA-5. You may want to consider the UMC200 which I've heard is an excellent sounding unit for the money. No balanced option however. A friend has one using 2 XPA-1s and an XPA-5. He loves it.
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Post by Boomzilla on May 23, 2015 4:20:58 GMT -5
The "preamp" goes between the source and the power amplifier(s). The preamp provides: Input selection Volume amplification (option) Tone controls (option) Buffer amplifier for all outputs (option) For AV equipment, the preamp is part of the processor (or part of the receiver). The processor adds multiple features including: Surround sound decoding (processor function) based on the encoding of the disc being played Digital to Analog conversion (processor function) Analog to Digital conversion (used on analog inputs that require digital processing - bass management is a prime example) Room correction (option) Digital effects (mimic specific acoustic environments) (option) Subwoofer management Video reprocessing (option) Obviously, the processor is an important part of the surround sound system. As some have mentioned, the disc player (in most cases) can serve as a processor if needed. In general, though, a dedicated processor usually does a better job (with both more flexibility and higher fidelity). There are factors to be considered when deciding whether to use a processor or not: In favor of NO processor:The setup is simpler - all choices can be made in the menu of the disc player The cost is less - with a disc player and power amp(s), the electronics portion of the system is complete Disc players are cheap - New technology comes to market continuously, and the latest disc players (even more expensive ones) cost less to replace than do processors In the specific case of the Oppo, one gets 90% of the sound quality of a processor without paying extra (can't comment on other brands...) In favor of processors:Since the manufacturer didn't have to skimp as much on cost, the sound quality is usually better (this may not be true in the case of receivers used as processors) The processor normally has MUCH more input flexibility than does a disc player, including analog inputs for phono, etc. Processors normally include "direct" modes so that unneeded features can be bypassed for better sound Processors are more likely to include features that the disc player may not have I started out using my Oppo BDP-105 directly into my power amplifiers, but on the advice of various Lounge members (including DYohn and garbulky) I tried a preamp. They were right - the sound quality and flexibility of the system improved with the preamplifier in the system. I opted for a stereo preamplifier (Emotiva XSP-1, Generation 2) with a "Home Theater Bypass" mode. So when watching movies, the Oppo disc player does the audio & video decoding, and basically drives all the power amps directly. This is fine for me because movie sound is my second priority. My first priority is stereo music listening, and the preamp DOES improve the sound quality there. If you decide you want a processor, I would generally recommend against buying an AV receiver (just to use as a processor). Why? Most of the receiver's price is in its power amps, which you're not going to use at all if running an XPA-5 power amp. Therefore, instead of spending money on the receiver's unneeded power amps, buy a dedicated, stand-alone processor. For the money, you'll get a MUCH better quality processor with noticeably better sound. Does this answer your question, bigbucz? Boomzilla
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Post by guzz46 on May 23, 2015 5:57:17 GMT -5
Just to confuse you, removing the UMC-1 and going direct into my amps with my Oppo 93NXE was one of the biggest improvements I've made to my system, dynamics, clarity, etc... all improved, at the time I brought my flatmate into my room to listen and he said it was a night and day difference, so we did a comparison to his Perreaux éloquence 250i integrated amp using an Oppo 95 (which was on demo at the time) the 250i offers the ability to bypass its preamp section, and the results were very impressive, the Oppo sounded at least as good as the 250i's preamp section, if not better.
I'll never go back to using a preamp again, my system has never sounded better, I now agree with those people who believe that the best sound will be had by keeping the signal from the source as short and as pure as possible, eg... not adding another component into the system when not needed. I'm not the only one, google it and you will find plenty of people who think the Oppo sounds better going direct into their power amp's, but some people also think otherwise, some people have said the Oppo sounds a little sterile or neutral, and the treble a little screechy, the Cambridge on the other hand sounds warmer than the Oppo 93/95 (I haven't heard the 103/105) and in my opinion sounds better for music playback, but as usual the only way you'll ever know is to try it for yourself.
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Post by Boomzilla on May 23, 2015 10:43:15 GMT -5
How funny - My Oppo sounds great going direct to the power amps, but lacks the ability to scale from very soft to very loud. In other words, the dynamics sound somewhat compressed to me. With the XSP-1 preamp in the system, the midrange sounds more solid, and the dynamics bloom more. I hear no screech at all from the Oppo, but I do from the Stealth DC-1. System matching? Hearing differences? Different sign of the Zodiac? I have no idea. But I'd agree with guzz46 that the Blu-Ray player directly into the power amps IS definitely worth a try. One further thought about using the Oppo direct to power amp: The Oppo, if I understand correctly, uses a digital volume control. That means that as volume is reduced, the digital word length is attenuated. In other words, the lower the volume, the poorer the sound quality. The preamps / processors don't suffer from this artifact.
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bigbucz
Minor Hero
Sorry Payton but time to make room for the new blood adios......
Posts: 49
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Post by bigbucz on May 23, 2015 10:49:53 GMT -5
I think i'll need an AV receiver for all my components ps4 cable box etc etc, since i'm buying the XPA- 5 i'm hoping that I won't need to buy high end receiver If you are going to use the XPA - 5 you will need a high(er) end receiver to afford you the ability to have pre-outs. Budget AVR's will not have this option for 5 channel setups. Just wanted you to be aware, its a way for the manufactures to ensure sales. If they allowed pre-outs on the weaker amp AVR's there would be no need for their more advanced ones, unless one needed the audio processing etc. Welcome btw. Thank you Adabou. I was trying to save a few $$$, however out the window with that idea!! I guess it's for the best I probably would of been miserable with a budget receiver anyway!!!
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bigbucz
Minor Hero
Sorry Payton but time to make room for the new blood adios......
Posts: 49
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Post by bigbucz on May 23, 2015 11:14:36 GMT -5
The "preamp" goes between the source and the power amplifier(s). The preamp provides: Input selection Volume amplification (option) Tone controls (option) Buffer amplifier for all outputs (option) For AV equipment, the preamp is part of the processor (or part of the receiver). The processor adds multiple features including: Surround sound decoding (processor function) based on the encoding of the disc being played Digital to Analog conversion (processor function) Analog to Digital conversion (used on analog inputs that require digital processing - bass management is a prime example) Room correction (option) Digital effects (mimic specific acoustic environments) (option) Subwoofer management Video reprocessing (option) Obviously, the processor is an important part of the surround sound system. As some have mentioned, the disc player (in most cases) can serve as a processor if needed. In general, though, a dedicated processor usually does a better job (with both more flexibility and higher fidelity). There are factors to be considered when deciding whether to use a processor or not: In favor of NO processor:The setup is simpler - all choices can be made in the menu of the disc player The cost is less - with a disc player and power amp(s), the electronics portion of the system is complete Disc players are cheap - New technology comes to market continuously, and the latest disc players (even more expensive ones) cost less to replace than do processors In the specific case of the Oppo, one gets 90% of the sound quality of a processor without paying extra (can't comment on other brands...) In favor of processors:Since the manufacturer didn't have to skimp as much on cost, the sound quality is usually better (this may not be true in the case of receivers used as processors) The processor normally has MUCH more input flexibility than does a disc player, including analog inputs for phono, etc. Processors normally include "direct" modes so that unneeded features can be bypassed for better sound Processors are more likely to include features that the disc player may not have I started out using my Oppo BDP-105 directly into my power amplifiers, but on the advice of various Lounge members (including DYohn and garbulky) I tried a preamp. They were right - the sound quality and flexibility of the system improved with the preamplifier in the system. I opted for a stereo preamplifier (Emotiva XSP-1, Generation 2) with a "Home Theater Bypass" mode. So when watching movies, the Oppo disc player does the audio & video decoding, and basically drives all the power amps directly. This is fine for me because movie sound is my second priority. My first priority is stereo music listening, and the preamp DOES improve the sound quality there. If you decide you want a processor, I would generally recommend against buying an AV receiver (just to use as a processor). Why? Most of the receiver's price is in its power amps, which you're not going to use at all if running an XPA-5 power amp. Therefore, instead of spending money on the receiver's unneeded power amps, buy a dedicated, stand-alone processor. For the money, you'll get a MUCH better quality processor with noticeably better sound. Does this answer your question, bigbucz? Boomzilla I do thanks Boom....On one hand av features are plenty, but to get the 5 channel pre outs i'd have to buy a high end receiver, using the xpa 5 would bypass the receivers amp cancelling each other out. ( I guess I could use the XPA-3 for fronts and rears powered via the av amp) but still a waste IMO. On the other hand I could buy a Preamp plug my components into it and run the pre amp through the power amp.......RIGHT?
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Post by Boomzilla on May 23, 2015 11:51:28 GMT -5
Right. The preamp has enough switching to hook up ALL your stuff, and it'll be worth the money you pay since you'll have (most likely) better sound quality.
There are LOTS of good processors on the market. In addition to the Emotivas, Parasound makes some fine ones, and even the Marantz processors are well-reviewed (although I've not heard them). One other option might be "Outlaw Audio."
The thing about a processor - even if the disc encoding changes over time, the (inexpensive) disc players will do all decoding if needed, and you can still run all your other sources through the (superior audio quality) processor.
Particularly in your case, where you have LOTS of input switching to do, I'd stick with a dedicated preamp/processor for its plenitude of inputs. Before buying, needless to say, ensure that the unit you choose has ENOUGH inputs for all your present & future needs. Alternately, buy a switch box to multiply the input flexibility.
Cheers - Boom
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Post by garbulky on May 23, 2015 13:04:56 GMT -5
As soon as is possible, go standalone processor vs AVR. That's what I would do. You'll thank yourself later.
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bigbucz
Minor Hero
Sorry Payton but time to make room for the new blood adios......
Posts: 49
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Post by bigbucz on May 23, 2015 15:51:59 GMT -5
What pre amps are you all using ?
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