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Post by knucklehead on May 19, 2015 20:21:19 GMT -5
Hmm - do I detect a split in the 'force'? HT vs 2 channel. No reason why the two cannot coexist. There is an interesting thread over at AVS that is an interesting read. The 'cork' crowd vs the 'screw cap' is an amusing analogy IMO - I some times drink wine from a plastic bag in a box. Using a wine glass of course! I am civilized after all!
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Post by audiobill on May 19, 2015 20:45:31 GMT -5
I prefer my musatel served in a screw on top bottle in a paper bag on the curb with my friends....
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Post by thepcguy on May 19, 2015 20:52:49 GMT -5
Oh, so if you can't trust your ears, just use Dirac to cure your audio nervosa .......LOL!!!!! no. i'm just saying you can trust your ears up to a point. you are in your 60's so....
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Post by milsap195 on May 19, 2015 22:09:12 GMT -5
I know, thanks, that was my exact point!!!! Enough XMC Dirac problems ad nauseum, back to real audio!!! My thoughts exactly....
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Post by ÈlTwo on May 19, 2015 22:10:11 GMT -5
Guys, guys let's agree the that the Solid State/ High Power/ HT crowd go on their high volume, ear destroying ways, and the more enlightened listen to music in a natural, pleasing way. You mean live acoustic?
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 19, 2015 22:18:34 GMT -5
No dirac, no atmos, no bs, perfect REW!! I've been at this long enough to trust my ears vs. software! Have you tried DIRAC? If not, you might be surprised...most pleasantly. Seriously...I was. I never thought I would prefer a room correction system to what I could get in other ways. But, I stand corrected. Mark
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Post by creimes on May 19, 2015 22:53:22 GMT -5
Guys, guys let's agree the that the Solid State/ High Power/ HT crowd go on their high volume, ear destroying ways, and the more enlightened listen to music in a natural, pleasing way. See now here is a very common misconception that just because a system can be played at 10db above reference doesn't mean that it is.. I spend as much or more time placing my speakers and obsessively working at getting the room response that tickles my fancy as any member of this forum but people look at my Sig and think I'm an f'n idiot but my Diy speakers will hang with some very expensive boutique offerings. I do like to crank the S*#% outta my nine Inch Nails Blu-ray hahaha, but hey that's how it supposed to be listened to, Miles Davis doesn't hit the same DB levels though
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Post by brand on May 19, 2015 22:59:57 GMT -5
Guys, guys let's agree the that the Solid State/ High Power/ HT crowd go on their high volume, ear destroying ways, and the more enlightened listen to music in a natural, pleasing way. See now here is a very common misconception that just because a system can be played at 10db above reference doesn't mean that it is.. I spend as much or more time placing my speakers and obsessively working at getting the room response that tickles my fancy as any member of this forum but people look at my Sig and think I'm an f'n idiot but my Diy speakers will hang with some very expensive boutique offerings. Haha I don't think people think that. I'm getting excited just reading your sub lineup
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 23:01:41 GMT -5
See now here is a very common misconception that just because a system can be played at 10db above reference doesn't mean that it is.. I spend as much or more time placing my speakers and obsessively working at getting the room response that tickles my fancy as any member of this forum but people look at my Sig and think I'm an f'n idiot but my Diy speakers will hang with some very expensive boutique offerings. I do like to crank the S*#% outta my nine Inch Nails Blu-ray hahaha, but hey that's how it supposed to be listened to, Miles Davis doesn't hit the same DB levels though You know what I mean though.. These old audiophiles think that because we use high powered amps on high efficiency speakers with large powerful subs that we're morons. Absolutely not the case, I just strongly dislike distortion.. And seem to be in a love affair with "overkill"... Any way.. Regards, Ivor
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Post by brand on May 19, 2015 23:09:27 GMT -5
Meh, in the end these are assumptions. And even if you're right and they do think you're a moron. Let's be honest: And so should yours.
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Post by creimes on May 19, 2015 23:11:10 GMT -5
I do like to crank the S*#% outta my nine Inch Nails Blu-ray hahaha, but hey that's how it supposed to be listened to, Miles Davis doesn't hit the same DB levels though You know what I mean though.. These old audiophiles think that because we use high powered amps on high efficiency speakers with large powerful subs that we're morons. Absolutely not the case, I just strongly dislike distortion.. And seem to be in a love affair with "overkill"... Any way.. Regards, Ivor I hear ya dude, my XPA-100's are prob overkill and even cranked up I am not using anywhere near the full output haha, but they look cool and they were the only thing selling at the time I had money to buy amps for my speakers that arrived, and yes just cause I have it doesn't mean I flaunt it hahahaha
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Post by novisnick on May 19, 2015 23:20:43 GMT -5
You know what I mean though.. These old audiophiles think that because we use high powered amps on high efficiency speakers with large powerful subs that we're morons. Absolutely not the case, I just strongly dislike distortion.. And seem to be in a love affair with "overkill"... Any way.. Regards, Ivor I hear ya dude, my XPA-100's are prob overkill and even cranked up I am not using anywhere near the full output haha, but they look cool and they were the only thing selling at the time I had money to buy amps for my speakers that arrived, and yes just cause I have it doesn't mean I flaunt it hahahaha Singing my song guys! A few friends here on the forum think I just love the high dbs, but it ain't so,,,,,,,, I was handed this reputation by listening to The Eagles Live, how do you not crank it up??? I'll wait for an answer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,, exactly, you don't play it like your listening to Diana Krall. Big, even humongous amps give you complete control of the drivers. Huge dynamics and control with the ability to play delicately . I don't think I've ever gotten the XPR-1s out of class A . Man, they sound great and look sexy doing it.
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Post by bub on May 19, 2015 23:25:29 GMT -5
I feel fortunate to know Bill. Very knowledgable and generous with it when asked. What I find amusing is the uninformed ( about Bill ) blasting him because he offered a well thought out and reasoned opinion . Not that he needs my defense. Just for the record he highly recommends pieces of Emotiva gear . Just not the pat response that Emotiva is the answer to all things audio. Good work Bill. It is Bill right ? Make them think.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 23:31:27 GMT -5
I feel fortunate to know Bill. Very knowledgable and generous with it when asked. What I find amusing is the uninformed ( about Bill ) blasting him because he offered a well thought out reasoned opinion . Not that he needs my defense. Just for the record he highly recommends pieces of Emotiva gear . Just not the pat response that Emotiva is the answer to all things audio. Good work Bill. It is Bill right ? Make them think. . I agree with everything that was said up until my first post in this thread.. that's Where I felt I needed to vent a a little. I've actually posted a few threads here hoping to get his attention, pertaining to my turntable and phono preamp. He gave clear and accurate info and recommendations.
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Post by dudeisms7 on May 19, 2015 23:37:13 GMT -5
Couldn't take this thread without it forcing me to post for the first time.... and lol some of you will hate me for it
1. If you can't tell Bill is half trolling this thread just for some entertainment and to get a rise out of some of you, well thats laughable. 2. Old speakers... its not a bad thing. Old or dated equipment also not a bad thing... providing the caps and some of the electronics are replaced every 20 years. DIY is not a bad thing. Some of you are chomping at the bit for EMO tubes so why bag on tubes. 125 wpc of tube power would make half of the audiophile community drool for stereo listening. 3. He has a point about the blind faith of the brand. Obviously I have, and chose to have some Emotiva products or I wouldn't be here.... but.... I have Emotiva because it is great for what it is: Most of the products have great quality for the price. But it is a value brand. The slogan is "Rethink High-End"...... it isn't high end. Nor is high-end necessary to have great sound. Yes there is pretty much nothing else out there for a price point that lets us play in these waters, and I am thankful for that.... but EMO is a VALUE brand.... and marketed as such by EMO! (Sure I drank the kool-aid and purchase and will continue to purchase their products... but blind faith is not supported by intelligence.) 4. Speaker placement (in some placement scenarios moving speakers by even an inch can make a system sing), hours of tweaking and dialing in your speakers, proper room choice, proper inherent room acoustics, bothering to have knowledge of what the Haas effect is (google it).... thats where great sound begins. DSP's like Dirac is the future, revolutionary speaker technology does not, nor will it occur very often, but proper setup goes far, some of us can do an amazing job by ear.... and then have it backed up by measurements and analytics. 5. Room treatments.... see #4, then sure but if you're barking about room treatments, then you're a fanatic... far down the audiophile wormhole (I see nothing wrong with this)... but most people that far down the wormhole have the financial equivalent to a ferrari or four in their listening room... and lets be honest they are the evil ones that would be laughing at all of our equipment.
We all have different goals and preferences to the sound and experience of enjoying said sound, so on some level lets respect that and enjoy the kool-aid from time to time. There is no one recipe for a good system to suit one's needs (Unless you buy big box store crap that lie's about their power ratings and quality.... those systems I'm down with bashing).
And for the record... I absolutely recommend Emotiva equipment to the right people, because its great within its market segment... but for the person that doesn't care about quality and only cares about the price (I hate when they want advice) I wouldn't.... And for someone who just dropped say $20K on a set of hand made boutique speakers... well they're going to want to spend their $$ on something thats boutique range..... they're also the dumb one's that fall prey to spending $$$$$ on "audiophile network switches"
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Post by novisnick on May 19, 2015 23:46:33 GMT -5
So sad to see so many get on the "Emo's the answer, what was the question" bandwagon without a moment's thought to room treatment, speaker placement or sonic objectives............ It's only an "Emo's the answer" bandwagon here because this is an Emotiva forum. Even so, many are quick to respond with whatever brand they are enthused with, without regard to non-equipment factors that influence sound. In a recent thread in which the guy had a room with hardwood floors and was asking how he should upgrade, I said first thing is to do some room treatments to overcome the effect of the room before spending money on more expensive equipment. But instead, pretty much all the responses were about people rattling off their favorite equipment - and not necessarily Emo. The thing is, there's nothing really exciting about buying room treatments, plus it involves work to get them set up correctly. But the adrenaline surges when buying new equipment. And really, isn't this hobby more about buying new gear than how anything sounds? I would say so. I do agree with a lot of this post but disagree about it NOT being about the sound. Yes, there IS great pleasure in the purchase, installation and first few months with a new piece of gear but treatments are the KING. So many don't realize the only second to speakers is treatment. ( no speakers, no sound,,,,,who needs treatments without sound?? ) Its not sexy and take a great deal of education and some money and experimentation. I've moved and redeployed all of my traps more then I'll admit,,,,,,, And then there's room correction every time you move them,,,,,lots of work to gain lots of enjoyment!! A price worth paying IMHO. EMO GEAR, YEP! I like it, I love how my Yamaha 3020 sounds as well. All that said, I can't wait till,I save enough to give tubes a listen!!
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Post by novisnick on May 19, 2015 23:50:05 GMT -5
No dirac, no atmos, no bs, perfect REW!! I've been at this long enough to trust my ears vs. software! REW does not work as well as Dirac. If all you want is frequency balance the yes, but Dirac does more than REW can. I have my preset 1 with REW sounding very much like the Dirac preset except for the mushy bass compared to Dirac. That's cruel, some people have to wear dentures and can only have mushy bass,,,,,he,,,,he,,,,he,,,,,,,
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Post by shmoo17 on May 20, 2015 1:12:20 GMT -5
at least 30 years of studio remastering can make Led Zeppellin sound like they knew what they were doing way back then LOL
but God bless them and the rest of the 70's rock bands for starting something good, to be built up, changed, and redone every decade.
I don't believe you need the effort discussed to just watch Jimmy Fallon and the Tonight Show. if you want to feel in the crowd of a Peter Gabriel Blu-ray concert, then by all means work away until you are front and center
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Post by boomzilla on May 20, 2015 4:51:04 GMT -5
There are many paths to what you want in a sound system.
For all those critical of others' choices, please reread the first sentence.
Everyone's ears are different - everyone's priorities in home audio also seem to be different. So a system that lights my fire may not be the system for any others.
That said:
Yes, room treatments can (for most rooms) make a big difference. Emotiva is a value brand, but that doesn't preclude it from being "high end." "How much power?" has too many variables to give simple answers. There are LOTS of great speaker systems & brands out there, and at all price ranges. How much you spend on your system is not a primary indicator of how good it sounds (Bang & Olufsen, anyone?) Good sound can be had from both digital and analog front ends, and from both solid-state and tube technology. The internet is full of opinionated blow-hards (and yes, I'm looking in the mirror).
Audio's supposed to be a hobby. Real things in life are family, friends, and the good in the lives we live. Enjoy the ride and try not to get bent about audio stuff that, ultimately, doesn't really matter. It may sound trite, but it's a simple restatement of a truism that I discovered in the '70s while in an "altered" state:
"The broader your perspective, the more accurate your perception."
Cheers - Boomzilla
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Post by audiobill on May 20, 2015 4:55:10 GMT -5
Thanks, all, for some good discussion on what may be an important topic.!!
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