|
|
Post by RDubya on Sept 10, 2015 17:07:36 GMT -5
My Emotiva history includes a gen 1 XPA-2 running a pair of Magnepans (MMG's then 1.7's) for a couple years, was happy with the setup but had an itch to try something new. I also still have a mini x.
I have since been running a McIntosh MA6700 integrated into a pair of Harbeth C7's. This was probably the best setup I had for my home for some time (my listening room is medium size), but recently I got another itch (for a full range speaker) and dumped the C7's, in favor of some new Paradigm 95f's. I'm really happy with these so far. But now of course I'm thinking about new amps, or maybe bi-wiring.
Top of my list are the XPA-1l's. Now I've read a ton about the benefits of class a amps, but to be honest do not have much experience with these personally. Because they are so reasonably priced I was hoping some of you fans out there might care to chime in and sing praises or critiques about these amps, as I'm right on the cusp of picking up a pair and need a nudge 1 way or another. I also don't know how well these components will work together.
My Mac integrated is 200wpc into 8ohms, so I could either 1) use it as a preamp and mate it to a pair of XPA-1L's (35wpc 8ohms class a, or 250wpc into 8ohms class a/b), or 2) remove the jumpers, and use the mac integrated for the LF drivers on my 95f's, and then a pair of the XPA-1L's for the mid+HF drivers of the 95F's.
These (relatively) large floorstanding speakers are pretty sensitive at 94db, but do have a power range of up to 450wpc. Now, I like loud music here and again, but 90% of my listening is at moderate levels or lower, but I can't help but think these emotiva class a monoblocks might just push my system to that next level where there are no more itches or looking back.. (at least not for a while, anyways). My mac integrated does not have balanced outputs, only unbalanced, so not sure how much this would leverage impact the xpa-1l's performance or not.
Look forward to your thoughts, lounge members.
|
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Sept 10, 2015 17:27:37 GMT -5
I would stick with the XPA-2 and buy a an XSP-1. Though I can't guarantee it, you may notice more of an increase in quality this way.
|
|
|
|
Post by RDubya on Sept 10, 2015 17:41:54 GMT -5
I would stick with the XPA-2 and buy a an XSP-1. Though I can't guarantee it, you may notice more of an increase in quality this way. Thats an interesting idea garbulky, I'll definitely consider it. My initial thought is the XSP-1 does not have optical inputs (?), if I'm not mistaken, which would eliminate two of my current sources. Its a work around issue thats doable, just an inconvenience. Also I had to update my profile, I no longer own the XPA-2 (I sold it when I sold my Magnepan 1.7's). |
|
geebo
Emo VIPs 
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,181
|
Post by geebo on Sept 10, 2015 17:43:16 GMT -5
I've had both and would give a slight edge to the 1L but they are pretty similar. I and some others cannot tell a difference between class A and AB but there are others that say they can and it's always favorable to class A. But they do run warmer even in class AB than the XPA-2.
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,181
|
Post by geebo on Sept 10, 2015 17:44:07 GMT -5
I would stick with the XPA-2 and buy a an XSP-1. Though I can't guarantee it, you may notice more of an increase in quality this way. Thats an interesting idea garbulky, I'll definitely consider it. My initial thought is the XSP-1 does not have optical inputs (?), if I'm not mistaken, which would eliminate two of my current sources. Its a work around issue thats doable, just an inconvenience. Also I had to update my profile, I no longer own the XPA-2 (I sold it when I sold my Magnepan 1.7's). The XSP is purely an analog preamp with no digital inputs. |
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Sept 10, 2015 17:50:34 GMT -5
I would stick with the XPA-2 and buy a an XSP-1. Though I can't guarantee it, you may notice more of an increase in quality this way. Thats an interesting idea garbulky, I'll definitely consider it. My initial thought is the XSP-1 does not have optical inputs (?), if I'm not mistaken, which would eliminate two of my current sources. Its a work around issue thats doable, just an inconvenience. Also I had to update my profile, I no longer own the XPA-2 (I sold it when I sold my Magnepan 1.7's). I didn't realize you didn't have a digital decoder. Yes you need to have an excellent DAC before considering an XSP-1. Having said that, there are quite a few nice sounding DAC units! The XSP-1 is all analog but I find it makes more of a difference versus a new amp. I've heard the XPA-2 and the XPA-1 L. I can't really notice a big difference between the two. If I was to upgrade I would hold out for used XPA-1 gen 2's with their beefier power supplies and 60 watts of class A. Not that the XPA-1 L is a poor performer at all! |
|
|
|
Post by boomzilla on Sept 10, 2015 18:28:35 GMT -5
Hi RDubya - Other than the itch for something new, is there any problem with the McIntosh integrated? It's a well-made, powerful, and very reliable integrated amp, and if you're not planning to add a subwoofer, then I'd stick with your present setup. I have XPA-1Ls, and yes, they are fine amps. Better than the XPA-2? Maybe but maybe not. If I had to ascribe a "sound per dollar" value to Emotiva's amps, I'd say the XPA-2 was first with the XPA-1Ls a close second. If I had to say which was better on an absolute basis, I'd have to call it a tie. I'd honestly doubt that you'd hear a big difference from your MA-6700. It's a fine amp. If it plays loudly enough for you, then no reason to change, IMHO. Boomzilla |
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Sept 10, 2015 18:29:22 GMT -5
All of the McIntosh's I have heard, which is a lot, have a very distinctive sound that is not all similar to Emotiva. If you truly like the McIntosh house sound, particularly those with Autoformers in the output as does the MA6700, then I'd make sure you critically audition all intended purchases very carefully first.
That said I have absolutely no doubt that the XPA-1L's would do the Paradigm 95F's full justice. As you may be aware the 95F, a 2.5 way with an 8" mid range driver, is a large room speaker. Sensitivity wise they are 94dB in-room but 91dB anechoic, hence not particularly sensitive. So IMHO would be perfectly suitable for the XPA-1L power output, both in Class A and Class AB.
With the auditioning in mind, my suggestion would be try a pair of XPA-1L's using the MA6700 as the DAC and pre amp first. Then, if you like the different (to McIntosh) Emotiva sound have a look at DAC's and pre amps.
Cheers
Gary
|
|
|
|
Post by milsap195 on Sept 10, 2015 19:20:51 GMT -5
Stay with the Mac.... That itch does not need to be scratched.
|
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Sept 11, 2015 2:39:21 GMT -5
First, don't worry about a speakers 'watts'. It is a fictional number. Do you hear distortion? Have you ever blown a driver? Ever have Mylar Slap when you owned Magnepan?
As for biamping? I'd first ask what the crossover frequency is to determine how much power you really need per 'way'. Somewhere between 300hz and 400hz is the 50:50 point of power distribution in 'normal' music.
94db sensitive speakers are above average in that measure. So, you really don't need huge amounts of juice. Unless you are in a very large space AND like it loud.
The XSP-1 is a nice piece. You may 'work around' the lack of optical inputs with an external DAC. Something like the CA DACMagic+ has multiple inputs (including USB) AND an available BlueTooth Dongle.
It is very flexible as far as having multiple output filters, headphone output AND the outputs can be configured as 'variable' in an all digitial system.
|
|
|
|
Post by RDubya on Sept 11, 2015 11:01:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the great responses all.
Absolutely nothing wrong with the Mac integrated, in fact its wonderful and plays more than loud enough for me. I'd love to audition the xpa-1l's personally first, but don't know how likely that opportunity will be. I have a CA Dacmagic+, its in my garage somewhere, I just no longer need it given my other gear.
This is really born out of my own curiosity about what a class a amp might (or might not) add to the system. To each his own opinions, I have yet to formulate my own about these highly regarded class of amps. Think I'll just stick with my current setup.
|
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Sept 11, 2015 11:28:16 GMT -5
going from panels to paradigm to harbeth tells me you are still searching for your goals in a system. I've heard too much bad about Maggie and Mac to want to try that, regardless of power.
until you get to a goals oriented approach, I doubt an 'A' amp is the magic bullet. However, if you want to try what is regarded as one of the Best of itss type, look up Pass Labs. The
XA30.5 is available on the used market and gets high marks from all users. Don't let the 30 watt rating fool you. It's really more like 100+ a side and near 2x @4 ohms.
I"ve been much happier since I started to 'zero in' on those things I find of musical value.
|
|
|
|
Post by brubacca on Sept 11, 2015 12:59:44 GMT -5
Keep the MAC. Skip the XPa-1l... Marginal power increase. If you want significant power than go for XPA-1, although i would try the Speakers with the MAC and be done, at 94dB efficient the 200 W oof the Mac should be plenty. If it is not enough power get a pair of XPA-1 and use with the MAC as pre.
|
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Sept 11, 2015 18:47:57 GMT -5
Keep the MAC. Skip the XPa-1l... Marginal power increase. If you want significant power than go for XPA-1, although i would try the Speakers with the MAC and be done, at 94dB efficient the 200 W oof the Mac should be plenty. If it is not enough power get a pair of XPA-1 and use with the MAC as pre. Just taking the 200 watt rating at its 'word', I'd say enough, too and agree with BRUBACCA. The ONLY minor proviso is that amps DO differ in their ability to drive certain (mainly reactive) loads. Impedance DOES play a role, too, but the WORST is a combo of low impedance AND high reactive measures. I have NO idea of the 'goodness' of load of the Paradigm speakers mentioned. Given the OPs history, I'd like to see him really take a good look at his goals and musical values. |
|
|
|
Post by deltadube on Sept 11, 2015 18:54:34 GMT -5
u want the big mono blocks!!!
xpr 1s
|
|
|
|
Post by stlaudiofan1 on Sept 11, 2015 21:30:58 GMT -5
I'm quite pleased with my 1Ls. I have 4 1Ls biamping my Magnepans. When I was driving them with 2 1Ls, I noticed less difference between the amps switched between class A and AB. After purchasing 2 more, I now notice a big difference in class A mode. I suspect the tough load of the Maggie's was readily forcing the 2 amps to switch into AB mode. Since your speakers are very efficient, I think they will comfortably stay in class A mode. It must be system dependent, as some notice little difference. I feel comfortable that most folks would readily hear the difference in my system.
|
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Sept 12, 2015 0:02:49 GMT -5
For the 20th time, Maggies are NOT a tough load for ANY competent amp. Low impedance doesn't drop to very low levels. Phase angle is moderate to pure resistive thru out. The ONLY fly in the ointment is that Panels
are fairly low sensitivity. Magnepan uses some 30 or 40 watt TUBE amp in the entry of their plant.
Any amp of sufficient 4ohm power will work. Some better than others, of course, but as a general rule? Buy enough power using a REAL amp, not some wacky off-brand.
I've not heard of a really BAD match on a consistent basis. Some amps like Pass have almost universal 'like'. While Mcintosh has votes either way. some don't like Bryston, either, but they make the same complaint regardless of
speaker driven. My Parasounds are on the 'good' list as are many EMO amps.
You'll know you have a bad load when as you turn it up to full blast, the lights in the house start to flicker in time to the music.
Want a bad load? Try some from the B&W 800 series. HUGE phase swings from capacitive to inductive coupled with big impedance dips to 2 ohms at the largest phase swing. Now THAT'S a bad load. Some Thiels have a similar issue.
|
|
|
|
Post by knucklehead on Sept 12, 2015 0:19:48 GMT -5
u want the big mono blocks!!! xpr 1s Seriously - your Mac is a nice piece - I doubt you're going to hear something from your speakers with a new amp that you can't get already. If you want a big change buy new speakers. Be careful though - you might not get an improvement over what you currently have. Its been my experience in the past 40+ years in this hobby that with all the electronics and speakers I've been through that speakers have always made the biggest difference. From the most inexpensive to very expensive (I know - its relative) electronics gear there is a narrow difference at best. With speakers I've had some supposedly decent speakers (according to user reviews) that didn't cut it with me. There are speakers I like that others call junk! I end up selling the ones I can't get along with and buy the next set - some times I don't wait. FWIW I'm now done with that! Besides I can't afford more costly speakers than I already have if the dog and I want to eat! I'm currently driving my mains (Salk Song Towers) with a B&K P3 Series II preamp and a Sherbourn PA 2-50 with 75wpc (4ohm load) - its the same amp as the Emotiva Flex Amp - both share the amp section with the Mini x amp. It does the same fine job as more powerful amps I've had. The prior setup with the song towers was an Emotiva XSP-1 G2 with a beautiful Onkyo/Integra M-504 with nearly 200wpc into 4ohms. The differences? Slight to none - hard to tell but since there are no glaring difference one vs the other setups I have to presume a side by side would give no noticeable differences. I listen to music as much as 10 hours per day so I know what my setup sounds like. I've only had the B&K for a day so far but it seems to be very transparent - just like the XSP-1 was IMO. Try the mini-x on your speakers for a few days. If it sounds anywhere near as good to you as you Mac then you probably don't need a new amp. Buy new speakers! |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Sept 12, 2015 11:55:36 GMT -5
In the interest of the OTHER viewpoint, a whole group of audiophiles is in the 'SOURCE FIRST' camp. I guess the thought is that if you start poorly, it can only get worse?
|
|
|
|
Post by deltadube on Sept 12, 2015 14:04:00 GMT -5
u want the big mono blocks!!! xpr 1s Seriously - your Mac is a nice piece - I doubt you're going to hear something from your speakers with a new amp that you can't get already. If you want a big change buy new speakers. Be careful though - you might not get an improvement over what you currently have. Its been my experience in the past 40+ years in this hobby that with all the electronics and speakers I've been through that speakers have always made the biggest difference. From the most inexpensive to very expensive (I know - its relative) electronics gear there is a narrow difference at best. With speakers I've had some supposedly decent speakers (according to user reviews) that didn't cut it with me. There are speakers I like that others call junk! I end up selling the ones I can't get along with and buy the next set - some times I don't wait. FWIW I'm now done with that! Besides I can't afford more costly speakers than I already have if the dog and I want to eat! I'm currently driving my mains (Salk Song Towers) with a B&K P3 Series II preamp and a Sherbourn PA 2-50 with 75wpc (4ohm load) - its the same amp as the Emotiva Flex Amp - both share the amp section with the Mini x amp. It does the same fine job as more powerful amps I've had. The prior setup with the song towers was an Emotiva XSP-1 G2 with a beautiful Onkyo/Integra M-504 with nearly 200wpc into 4ohms. The differences? Slight to none - hard to tell but since there are no glaring difference one vs the other setups I have to presume a side by side would give no noticeable differences. I listen to music as much as 10 hours per day so I know what my setup sounds like. I've only had the B&K for a day so far but it seems to be very transparent - just like the XSP-1 was IMO. Try the mini-x on your speakers for a few days. If it sounds anywhere near as good to you as you Mac then you probably don't need a new amp. Buy new speakers! sounds like you need some big mono blocks too!!!! free membership on club mono block too |
|
