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Post by RDubya on Sept 17, 2015 14:11:49 GMT -5
going from panels to paradigm to harbeth tells me you are still searching for your goals in a system. I've heard too much bad about Maggie and Mac to want to try that, regardless of power. until you get to a goals oriented approach, I doubt an 'A' amp is the magic bullet. However, if you want to try what is regarded as one of the Best of itss type, look up Pass Labs. The XA30.5 is available on the used market and gets high marks from all users. Don't let the 30 watt rating fool you. It's really more like 100+ a side and near 2x @4 ohms. I"ve been much happier since I started to 'zero in' on those things I find of musical value. That's an interesting assessment leonski. Yes, I've sampled speakers and amps from perhaps varying locations of the spectrum, and while each possess their own sets of strengths AND weaknesses, its also helped me to narrow and refine what is important to me in terms of sound. I am "zeroing in", getting there, albeit slowly and perhaps at some expense (my wife goes crazy every time I flip something from my audio system), but its been fun. Its all about the journey, right? (just for clarity, I went from Klipsch's to Maggies [2 models] to Harbeth's to Paradigm's). That said, I'm happy with the Mac and the Paradigm combo. Its a real good match. As for Maggies, while I was impressed at first at the level of detail and resolution, I quickly grew intolerant of their narrow dispersion, their "clinical" sound, and the fact that I started focusing on flaws rather than enjoying the music (I also felt the MMG's sounded better than the 1.7's). Then, the Harbeth's brought the love of music back into my home, but in the long run (about 2 years) didn't provide the dynamic range I wanted. But I totally get why some people love them. If I had a smaller room and did more near field listening etc. perhaps I would have kept them.. Maybe I will keep an eye out for a Pass XA30.5 on the used market. I always considered Pass products to be well beyond my means (still do), but maybe, just maybe, a used version of THIS model wont be. I also agree that sources are a very important part of the chain, as others have pointed out here in this thread, but perhaps that is best discussed elsewhere.
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Post by leonski on Sept 17, 2015 15:48:07 GMT -5
I've owned Magnepan for 35 to 40 years. So I KNOW how to set 'em up and get a lot out of 'em. Setup is KEY. For example, I have tried tweeters IN and OUT. Also, my original MG-1 panels were setup so they were meant for the Pole Piece side to be TOWARD the listener. Magnepan changed that in the 90s, and your 1.7s were setup for MYLAR to the listener and pole piece to the front wall.
Try 'em both ways.
Others have modified them called 'razoring' and others use all WOODEN frames by Peter Gunn. Other setup options include the Lamage which is a very non-intuitive setup which works in some cases. Crossover? From simple mods or even a 'series' crossover to more complex Line Level crossovers of BOTH active (think power supply) and passive types.
maggies are a DIY Dream Speaker. Have fun.
And Yes, some people consider the MMG one of the true Bargains of Hi-End Audio.
Source First IS a valid approach.
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Post by stlaudiofan1 on Oct 30, 2015 21:10:37 GMT -5
For the 20th time, Maggies are NOT a tough load for ANY competent amp. Low impedance doesn't drop to very low levels. Phase angle is moderate to pure resistive thru out. The ONLY fly in the ointment is that Panels are fairly low sensitivity. Magnepan uses some 30 or 40 watt TUBE amp in the entry of their plant. Any amp of sufficient 4ohm power will work. Some better than others, of course, but as a general rule? Buy enough power using a REAL amp, not some wacky off-brand. I've not heard of a really BAD match on a consistent basis. Some amps like Pass have almost universal 'like'. While Mcintosh has votes either way. some don't like Bryston, either, but they make the same complaint regardless of speaker driven. My Parasounds are on the 'good' list as are many EMO amps. You'll know you have a bad load when as you turn it up to full blast, the lights in the house start to flicker in time to the music. Want a bad load? Try some from the B&W 800 series. HUGE phase swings from capacitive to inductive coupled with big impedance dips to 2 ohms at the largest phase swing. Now THAT'S a bad load. Some Thiels have a similar issue. Well....one of my 1Ls I'm using to biamp my Magnepans is back at the shop due to constant overheating. I was told by the tech that I should NOT use the 1Ls in class A mode for my "easy to drive" Magnepans. I guess 1Ls go on the "bad list" if you want to run them in Class A mode....which is why I bought them in the first place.
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Post by leonski on Oct 31, 2015 3:25:23 GMT -5
I think the key here is ONE. The other amp is fine, right? If both are well ventilated and NOT stacked, than I'd find out why ONE overheats and the other doesn't. I briefly considered a QUAD of 'em for my biampable 1.6s but blanched when I thought of the BILL I would get for running ANOTHER dedicated power line TO my stereo.
Have you swapped the amps L/R to see if something MAY be amiss with your panel?
And don't forget, in a large space at high levels, Maggies DO eat up power like you own stock in the electric company. They ARE very low sensitivity.
Which Maggies are you running? The new 1.7 drops to under 3ohms at frequencies ABOVE about 15khz, which should NOT be a problem, considering how little power is actually needed at that frequency and above.
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Post by stlaudiofan1 on Oct 31, 2015 7:22:40 GMT -5
I think the key here is ONE. The other amp is fine, right? If both are well ventilated and NOT stacked, than I'd find out why ONE overheats and the other doesn't. I briefly considered a QUAD of 'em for my biampable 1.6s but blanched when I thought of the BILL I would get for running ANOTHER dedicated power line TO my stereo. Have you swapped the amps L/R to see if something MAY be amiss with your panel? And don't forget, in a large space at high levels, Maggies DO eat up power like you own stock in the electric company. They ARE very low sensitivity. Which Maggies are you running? The new 1.7 drops to under 3ohms at frequencies ABOVE about 15khz, which should NOT be a problem, considering how little power is actually needed at that frequency and above. I want to start off saying it sounded like I was ripping on the 1L, which is not the case. It's a great amp. It's the match that is wrong. I have 1.6QR speakers. I thought I had a bad panel at first, because when I flipped amps one of the others started flipping into protection mode after about 2 hours. After more extensive testing....over days....I found after 2-3 hours of play the one amp would always shut down regardless of where it was. Additionally, others would also shut down when I drove them to a volume slightly higher than I would normally listen, regardless of which speaker or driver they were on. When they operated in A/B mode, they never had any problem whatsoever, bearly running warm. I have talked with a couple Emotiva tech guys . Both said the 1Ls are not a good idea if you want to drive Maggies in class A mode, regardless of biamping due to the low impedance. For the past year, I have been looking at other speakers, mainly because of the room requirements and additional system matching challenges that come with Maggie's. This escapade was what I needed to pull the trigger on a pair Totem Forest speakers. The one amp still had issues after the speaker switch, which is why it is in the shop. Even 2 1Ls have no problems with the Totems in class A mode. The Totems are 8 ohm nominal speakers. I'm keeping the Maggies. I'm going to play with the crossover during the winter months for fun.
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Post by leonski on Nov 1, 2015 11:36:46 GMT -5
StLaaudiofan1, Of course you're right. Good amp? Love the speakers? Together? Not so much. As for Crossover? Consider a Line Level approach. You'll need to open up your panels to directly connect drivers to amps. The crossover goes BETWEEN Amp and Preamp. That's when it starts to get a bit (a lot, maybe!) Weird. Use an opamp based active? Cap and resistor passive? DSP? Marchand? Pass Labs ($$$$$) or even Berhinger? Here is a DIY article from Elliot Sound Products. You'll have to find Part II on your own! sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htmYou'll note that removing 'out of band' signals FROM the amplifier will net you as much as 3db extra 'apparent' power. This may make it 1Ls viable again? At any rate, my direction is to go to the MiniDSP product line. The 2x8 (2in / 8out) will handle a 2-way system with mono sub. Provide a way to nearly duplicate (or not!) the stock crossover and allow for 5 bands of parametric per INPUT and an additional 5 bands per OUTPUT or PEQ. For maximum advantage, consider the calibration mic AND use of the free computer program, REW.
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