novisnick
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Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on Oct 17, 2015 23:14:24 GMT -5
I have a friend looking to spend $500. Or less for a good set of full range towers. Mostly for two channel but also for a decent HT setup,,,,,eventualy. He has two children 6 & 9. He's running a Yamaha 673. Not sure of room size, about 2,000 cf and two openings on one side.
i was thinking a set of Klipsch Reference 28Fs.
What would you recommend? Thanks, Ill be sharing this list with him.
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Post by dasanto2 on Oct 17, 2015 23:27:01 GMT -5
Pioneer's SP-FS52-LR by Andrew Jones are a set of speakers that perform way above their price point. AND they are priced at less than 300 a pair. I bought a pair for my parents to which I did a crossover mode as well as a cosmetic upgrade. Im still surprised by how good they sound sometimes.
David
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Post by teaman on Oct 17, 2015 23:48:10 GMT -5
I would consider the Klipsch F-30 or Klipsch KF-28 towers Nick. They don't have the "sensitive to the touch" copper spun woofers that little fingers always seem to find. Also, the poly woofers seem to sound better in a stereo set up. Newegg had them listed this week for $300 a pair new and free shipping. They are coming up at Newegg Flash sales this week as seen here: flash.newegg.com/search?keyword=klipschAnother option is the Infinity towers from Fry's. www.frys.com/product/6878376?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PGThey were on sale earlier this week with promo code for $129 apiece and were top picks in the Home Theater buyer's guide this year.
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Post by knucklehead on Oct 18, 2015 0:08:02 GMT -5
I would consider the Klipsch F-30 or Klipsch KF-28 towers Nick. They don't have the "sensitive to the touch" copper spun woofers that little fingers always seem to find. Also, the poly woofers seem to sound better in a stereo set up. Newegg had them listed this week for $300 a pair new and free shipping. They are coming up at Newegg Flash sales this week as seen here: flash.newegg.com/search?keyword=klipschAnother option is the Infinity towers from Fry's. www.frys.com/product/6878376?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PGThey were on sale earlier this week with promo code for $129 apiece and were top picks in the Home Theater buyer's guide this year. Amazon has the Infinity Primus P363 towers for $109 each plus free shipping for Prime members. They continue to get rave reviews when you consider the price and sound quality. I owned a pair of Infinity cube speakers some years back that had the same tweeter as what is in the Primus speakers. It was very clean and clear.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2015 4:11:57 GMT -5
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Post by vneal on Oct 18, 2015 8:12:01 GMT -5
ELAC F5 Debut
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Post by garbulky on Oct 18, 2015 8:29:42 GMT -5
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Post by vneal on Oct 18, 2015 8:32:18 GMT -5
My son has these in a 90% video system with a 130" Projection 4K setup. Ok for a videophile-- lacking for audio satisfaction for my tastes
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on Oct 18, 2015 12:31:25 GMT -5
Chuckienut, thanks formthe time and effort you put into your comments and research. I know the Klipsch 28 will be $500. A pair on Black Friday. What say you about that price/performance ratio.
Great points all on sub and bookshelf speakers.
You hit it on the head, the very loose term " full range" was ment to mean tower vs Bookshelf.
Thanks.
Nick
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Post by highfihoney on Oct 18, 2015 15:51:48 GMT -5
I have a friend looking to spend $500. Or less for a good set of full range towers. Mostly for two channel but also for a decent HT setup,,,,,eventualy. He has two children 6 & 9. He's running a Yamaha 673. Not sure of room size, about 2,000 cf and two openings on one side. i was thinking a set of Klipsch Reference 28Fs. What would you recommend? Thanks, Ill be sharing this list with him. Looking at the specs of the Klipsch 28f's one thing i found odd is where Klipsch decided to list sensitivity of an 8 ohm system as 98 db @ 2.83v in order to make the system appear more sensitive , its an 8 ohm system so its rating should be 95 db which is still very high , it makes me wonder if Klipsch fudged other specs , at any rate 35hz-27,000 is pretty far from full range & missing alot of low bass . With that said i'd take a serious look at the Polk Audio A-7 system which is very close to being a true full range speaker thats spec'd at 20hz-27,000 compared to the Klipsch specs at 35hz-27,000 , that extra 15 hz extension in low bass should translate to much more depth to their sound over the Klipsch & more bass slam , the ad i looked at had them for $249 each so they fall within his $500 budget . The Polks are going to have a much fuller sound with deeper bass but wont have as high of spl as the Klipsch using the Yamaha V673's built in 90 wpc amps , if he is interested in Sq vs SPL the Polks are the better speaker & if he plans on future upgrades the pre/pro features on the Yamaha are up to date enough where he could add a $500 200 watt @8 ohm amp using the Yamaha for a pre & get alot more performance out of the Polks .
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Post by jackpine on Oct 18, 2015 16:48:49 GMT -5
At $500 I'd be scouring Craigslist. I briefly auditioned the Andrew Jones and some of the copper driver Klipsch bookshelves a few years ago and wasn't impressed. If you and your buddy could audition some speakers together that would be best. Him because he has to like the sound, and you to offer guidance so he doesn't fooled by some fatiguing highs or boomy midbass.
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Post by jmilton on Oct 18, 2015 17:27:31 GMT -5
Another vote for Elac F5.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on Oct 18, 2015 23:19:06 GMT -5
But a recommendation of 3' off the wall? Hummmm,,,, thats a a pretty good distance
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2015 4:23:35 GMT -5
I have a friend looking to spend $500. Or less for a good set of full range towers. Mostly for two channel but also for a decent HT setup,,,,,eventualy. He has two children 6 & 9. He's running a Yamaha 673. Not sure of room size, about 2,000 cf and two openings on one side. i was thinking a set of Klipsch Reference 28Fs. What would you recommend? Thanks, Ill be sharing this list with him. Looking at the specs of the Klipsch 28f's one thing i found odd is where Klipsch decided to list sensitivity of an 8 ohm system as 98 db @ 2.83v in order to make the system appear more sensitive , its an 8 ohm system so its rating should be 95 db which is still very high , it makes me wonder if Klipsch fudged other specs , at any rate 35hz-27,000 is pretty far from full range & missing alot of low bass . With that said i'd take a serious look at the Polk Audio A-7 system which is very close to being a true full range speaker thats spec'd at 20hz-27,000 compared to the Klipsch specs at 35hz-27,000 , that extra 15 hz extension in low bass should translate to much more depth to their sound over the Klipsch & more bass slam , the ad i looked at had them for $249 each so they fall within his $500 budget . The Polks are going to have a much fuller sound with deeper bass but wont have as high of spl as the Klipsch using the Yamaha V673's built in 90 wpc amps , if he is interested in Sq vs SPL the Polks are the better speaker & if he plans on future upgrades the pre/pro features on the Yamaha are up to date enough where he could add a $500 200 watt @8 ohm amp using the Yamaha for a pre & get alot more performance out of the Polks . FYI: Note that the Klipsch R-28F is rated: 35Hz - 24kHz +/- 3dB where as the Polk is rated: 20Hz-27kHz. The Klipsch rating is legitimate although perhaps slightly exaggerated on the low end while the Polk rating is pure exaggerated marketing nonsense, shame on Polk! Note there is no variation qualifications like +/- 3dB's which is standard practice. The Polk rating of 20Hz-27kHz is meaningless by itself. Look deeper and you'll see that Polk list the A-7 at 35Hz +/-3dB's (perhaps slightly exaggerated). Very few tower speakers on this planet at any price go down to 20Hz at -3dB's (in lab tests) let alone many subwoofers. Usually one can expect a $500 or lower tower to reach down to about 35Hz(maybe)-50Hz at -3dB. Note that the Polk RTi-A9 (one model larger than the A-7) was tested by S&V at: –3-dB point is at 49 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 40 Hz. So the A-7 most likely not as low would test at 50Hz (-3dB) or slightly higher and no where near 20Hz. It might hit 20Hz at very low volume and very high distortion if at all. Many speakers will perform lower in room versus lab measurements but finding a low to medium priced tower that performs below 35-40Hz at -3dB's in the lab is very rare indeed. I guess the Klipsch might go slightly lower than the Polk. Speakers start to distort more as they reach the bottom of their frequency range and take much more amplifier power. This can be very hard on the entry level AV receivers amps like the Yamaha 673 at high volumes. That is why I would always in a HT system recommend a sub taking over at 80Hz and down and the tower reproducing 80Hz and above only. This THX style theory/setting is taken care of in the receiver's bass management circuitry. This requires setting the tower to "small." not large/full range. BTW, speaker sensitivity is rated as: 2.83 volts at one meter (2.83 volts is 1 watt of power into an 8 ohm impedance). All speaker use 8 ohms but Klipsch from the lab tests I have seen tend to list their sensitivity too high. The Polk tested out the A-9 within 0.5 dB of spec so I think the 89dB on the A-7 should be quite accurate. but I've seen Klipsch speakers 3-5dB's high at times.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2015 5:29:47 GMT -5
Chuckienut, thanks formthe time and effort you put into your comments and research. I know the Klipsch 28 will be $500. A pair on Black Friday. What say you about that price/performance ratio. Great points all on sub and bookshelf speakers. You hit it on the head, the very loose term " full range" was ment to mean tower vs Bookshelf. Thanks. Nick Nick, The R-28F Klipsch IMO is a great buy at $500/pair. It is also very sensitive (aka efficiency) and will play very loud even on the entry level Yamaha receiver, especially if he waits for later on a sub. Loud and low bass puts a big strain on amps. The ELAC F5 mentioned would be a great sounding speaker for the price but it has a sensitivity rating of only 85dB's If that is accurate it means it would take about twice the power for the Polk A-7 and ten times the power for the Klipsch! Every increase of 3dB's requires double the power. The Klipsch is rated at 98dB's but in my experience that is somewhat high and I would estimate 96dB's as closer to accurate. That means the Klipsch driven by the Yamaha 673 with 90 watts per 2 ch at 8ohms would be equivalent to driving the ELAC F5 (6 ohms) with a receiver with about 13 watts per channel. In the case of the ELAC and its low sensitivity I would hesitate to drive the ELAC with an entry level amp like the 673. Some of the 6 ohm speakers can drop to near 4 ohms at times. I just checked a review at Audioholics on the Infinity Primus P363 and find that it is definitely a 4 ohm speaker and therefore I would not recommend it without a good strong amp/receiver. Very few receiver these days that are strong into 4 ohms, especially when you get into HT-5 channels. My choice now would be the Klipsch R-28F. It will be able to play very loud if needed even down fairly low until he might get a sub. Note that the Klipsch are loved by many and not by others. They can tend to be somewhat bright sounding in the high end/treble and fatiguing to some. However that is also quite common in the lower priced speakers with metal tweeters. If his room has reasonable sound absorption material like carpeting, drapes, thick furniture, etc that will help. Also toning down the high frequency response with the EQ/high frequncy settings on the receiver should help. At this price you will not find a speaker that is as dynamic (ability to play quick and loud portions of music realistically without noticeable distortion). Down the road if he does go with the Klipsch for HT (5.1) I highly recommend adding the center and surrounds from matching Klipsch models in the same series as the R-28F. floor-standing-speakers.toptenreviews.com/klipsch-reference-review.htmlPS: Speakers can and usually will sound quite different in the dealers place versus your home. Try to make sure at his house the speakers are not in a corner, up against a side wall, any cabinets next to them or too close to the wall behind them (15" or more if possible). Some space all around the speakers is best. RE Infinity P363 from Audioholics: The Infinity P363 floorstanding speaker system is not quite as sensitive (actually 90dB) or as easy of an amplifier load as Harman spec’d them to be. Although Harman rates the Infinity Primus P363 as 8-ohm speakers, what I measured tells a much different story. These are clearly 4-ohm speakers......care must be taken when pairing them with modestly priced A/V receivers, especially when trying to achieve high output levels in medium to larger sized rooms.
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Post by briank on Oct 19, 2015 8:51:14 GMT -5
I would look for some used Revel F12's. Or new ones if you can stretch the budget to around $800.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 19, 2015 10:44:59 GMT -5
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Post by highfihoney on Oct 19, 2015 21:59:02 GMT -5
Looking at the specs of the Klipsch 28f's one thing i found odd is where Klipsch decided to list sensitivity of an 8 ohm system as 98 db @ 2.83v in order to make the system appear more sensitive , its an 8 ohm system so its rating should be 95 db which is still very high , it makes me wonder if Klipsch fudged other specs , at any rate 35hz-27,000 is pretty far from full range & missing alot of low bass . With that said i'd take a serious look at the Polk Audio A-7 system which is very close to being a true full range speaker thats spec'd at 20hz-27,000 compared to the Klipsch specs at 35hz-27,000 , that extra 15 hz extension in low bass should translate to much more depth to their sound over the Klipsch & more bass slam , the ad i looked at had them for $249 each so they fall within his $500 budget . The Polks are going to have a much fuller sound with deeper bass but wont have as high of spl as the Klipsch using the Yamaha V673's built in 90 wpc amps , if he is interested in Sq vs SPL the Polks are the better speaker & if he plans on future upgrades the pre/pro features on the Yamaha are up to date enough where he could add a $500 200 watt @8 ohm amp using the Yamaha for a pre & get alot more performance out of the Polks . FYI: Note that the Klipsch R-28F is rated: 35Hz - 24kHz +/- 3dB where as the Polk is rated: 20Hz-27kHz. The Klipsch rating is legitimate although perhaps slightly exaggerated on the low end while the Polk rating is pure exaggerated marketing nonsense, shame on Polk! Note there is no variation qualifications like +/- 3dB's which is standard practice. The Polk rating of 20Hz-27kHz is meaningless by itself. Look deeper and you'll see that Polk list the A-7 at 35Hz +/-3dB's (perhaps slightly exaggerated). Very few tower speakers on this planet at any price go down to 20Hz at -3dB's (in lab tests) let alone many subwoofers. Usually one can expect a $500 or lower tower to reach down to about 35Hz(maybe)-50Hz at -3dB. Note that the Polk RTi-A9 (one model larger than the A-7) was tested by S&V at: –3-dB point is at 49 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 40 Hz. So the A-7 most likely not as low would test at 50Hz (-3dB) or slightly higher and no where near 20Hz. It might hit 20Hz at very low volume and very high distortion if at all. Many speakers will perform lower in room versus lab measurements but finding a low to medium priced tower that performs below 35-40Hz at -3dB's in the lab is very rare indeed. I guess the Klipsch might go slightly lower than the Polk. Speakers start to distort more as they reach the bottom of their frequency range and take much more amplifier power. This can be very hard on the entry level AV receivers amps like the Yamaha 673 at high volumes. That is why I would always in a HT system recommend a sub taking over at 80Hz and down and the tower reproducing 80Hz and above only. This THX style theory/setting is taken care of in the receiver's bass management circuitry. This requires setting the tower to "small." not large/full range. BTW, speaker sensitivity is rated as: 2.83 volts at one meter (2.83 volts is 1 watt of power into an 8 ohm impedance). All speaker use 8 ohms but Klipsch from the lab tests I have seen tend to list their sensitivity too high. The Polk tested out the A-9 within 0.5 dB of spec so I think the 89dB on the A-7 should be quite accurate. but I've seen Klipsch speakers 3-5dB's high at times. I dont know why you thought i needed a lesson in speaker rating methods & performance issues but thank you . Direct paste of Polks listed specs for the A7 , i dont see any missing or misleading info from polk as you stated , however i do see misleading info from klipsch , im aware of how sensitivity is measured & denoted, what im not aware of is why klipsch would use non industry standards to rate their speaker , 2.83v 1m is not industry standard for an 8 ohm system & the inclusion of the 2.83v normally denotes a 4 ohm system , 8 ohm "compatible" as klipsch chose does not mean 8 ohm nominal impendance , this could be why they chose 2.83v 1m & no mention of wattage at all ,now thats misleading . Specifications: Driver Complement Subwoofer: 2 - 7" Diameter (17.78cm) Polymer Composite with Rubber Surround Midrange: 1 - 6-1/2" Diameter (16.51cm) Polymer Composite Dynamic Balance with rubber surround Tweeter: 1 - 1" Diameter (2.54cm) Silk Polymer Composite Dome Enclosure Type (mid-high array): Ported via ARC Port Enclosure Type (subwoofer): Ported via PowerPort Plus Electrical Overall Frequency Response: 20Hz-27kHz Lower -3dB Limit: 35Hz Upper -3dB Limit: 26kHz Nominal Impedance: 8 ohms Recommended Amplifier Power: 20-300 w/channel Efficiency: 89 dB Inputs: Dual (bi-amp)5-way binding posts Approximate Dimensions: Height: 42.20" Width: 8.88" Depth: 17.88" Approximate Weight: Unit: 55 lbs Shipping: 60 lbs Warranty Information: Manufacturers Warranty (authorized online retailer): 5 years parts and labor (original purchaser) Heres the listed specs for the Klipsch & i find their use of the 2.83v 1m figure to be highly misleading & not industry standard for an 8 ohm system, a 98 db 8 ohm system would normally be denoted as being 98 db 1w 1m nominal impendance 8 ohms , that is the industry standard, the 2.83v denotation is normally associated with 4 ohm speakers ( this has nothing to do with how speakers are measured , its about wonky specs that dont add up ) ,klipsch chose to list the impendance as 8 ohm compatible vs 8 ohm nominal impendance, i find the klipsch specs to be misleading & probably much closer to a 4 ohm impendance than an 8 ohm impendance thus the non standard 2.83v 1m reference , looking at both sets of manufacturer specs it looks like polk is being much more honest than klipsch ,klipsch's listed sensitivity is not denoted using the industry standard for an 8 ohm system yet you say polk is the one witholding info , i see no missing info from polks specs but there is with klipsch . FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 35Hz - 24kHz +/- 3dB LOW FREQUENCY EXTENSION: 32Hz SENSITIVITY: 98dB @ 2.83V / 1m POWER HANDLING: 150W Continuous/600W Peak NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 Ohms Compatible HIGH FREQUENCY DRIVERS: 1" (2.54cm) Aluminum diaphragm compression driver mated to 90° x 90° square Tractrix® Horn LOW FREQUENCY DRIVER: Dual 8" (20.3cm), copper spun magnetically shielded IMG woofers CROSSOVER FREQUENCY: 1800Hz ENCLOSURE MATERIAL: MDF ENCLOSURE TYPE: Bass-reflex via front-firing port INPUTS: Dual binding posts / bi-wire / bi-amp HEIGHT: 42" (106.6 cm) WIDTH: 9.5” (24.1 cm) DEPTH: 15.7” (39.8 cm) WEIGHT: 56.67 lbs (25.68 kg) FINISHES: Brushed Black Polymer Veneer BUILT FROM: 2014
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Post by deltadube on Oct 19, 2015 22:04:49 GMT -5
heres a nice set for 50
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Post by creimes on Oct 19, 2015 22:17:22 GMT -5
I can't say enough good things about my highly unknown Chane A5rx-c towers and have heard great things about the A3rx-c towers as well, they are currently sold out and seem to very often, a really great speaker for the price. www.chanemusiccinema.com/chane-loudspeakers/A3rx-c
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