What Preamp are you Using with your XPA-2's?

[beevil]

I'm currently running my XPA-2 Gen 2's with my Luxman C-05 preamp with great success. But I'm curious about using the balanced inputs on the XPA-2's. I'm running 2 actually in bridged mode in to my Carver Amazing Silvers. Anyway, in order to try the balanced inputs I recently purchased a Classe DR-6 MKII with a great phono stage, seperate power supply and balanced outputs. I'm hoping this will make a huge difference but not holding my breath.

Has anyone else tried a balanced preamp with their XPA-2 amp? What are you using and did it make a night and day difference?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Andrew

[teaman]

I am using the XDA-2 as a preamp to all of my XPA-2's in my systems. Using the balanced outs to the amps and using the RCA outputs to run subs.

[brutiarti]

I dont think that you will find any difference running balanced connections on an xpa-2. You may find improvements but because the new preamp has better qualities than the previuos one regardless of the connections used. imo

[beevil]

Oct 18, 2015 20:46:22 GMT -5 brutiarti said:

I dont think that you will find any difference running balanced connections on an xpa-2. You may find improvements but because the new preamp has better qualities than the previuos one regardless of the connections used. imo

So you think the Classe DR-6 MKII is better than the top of the line Luxman C-05? I'm not going to disagree with you but once I get the Classe I'll let you know. The C-05 is an amazing preamp with a terrific phono stage, dual mono design, copper cladding and top notch parts throughout. But I am hoping it will be better than the Luxman or I wouldn't have purchased it.

Thank for your input.

[brutiarti]

Oct 18, 2015 20:58:32 GMT -5 beevil said:

Oct 18, 2015 20:46:22 GMT -5 brutiarti said:

I dont think that you will find any difference running balanced connections on an xpa-2. You may find improvements but because the new preamp has better qualities than the previuos one regardless of the connections used. imo

So you think the Classe DR-6 MKII is better than the top of the line Luxman C-05? I'm not going to disagree with you but once I get the Classe I'll let you know. The C-05 is an amazing preamp with a terrific phono stage, dual mono design, copper cladding and top notch parts throughout. But I am hoping it will be better than the Luxman or I wouldn't have purchased it.

Thank for your input.

I don't have any experience with those preamps that you mentioned. I said you may find improvements but that will depend on which preamp is better, but not because you are you using balanced connections. Remember that the xpa-2 is not true balanced only the xpa-1, 1l and xpr-1 are fully balanced amps. Please share your opinions regarding your new preamp compared to your luxman when you have a chance

[beevil]

Quote


I don't have any experience with those preamps that you mentioned. I said you may find improvements but that will depend on which preamp is better, but not because you are you using balanced connections. Remember that the xpa-2 is not true balanced only the xpa-1, 1l and xpr-1 are fully balanced amps. Please share your opinions regarding your new preamp compared to your luxman when you have a chance

I don't understand. So the XPA-2 balanced connectors are for show only? Why would they provide balanced inputs if they aren't providing the customer with real balanced units? Is this true? I had no idea!! It doesn't make much sense to provide balanced inputs if they are mearly bling.

Please tell me it ain't so!!!

Andrew

[willcycle]

The balanced inputs are there for convenience only. I suppose if you have a long cable run using balanced connections between preamp and amp can minimize the chances of common mode noise. From a quality perspective you will most likely degrade the sound due to the signal going through a cheap NE5532 opamp used for signal inversion back to single ended within the amp.

[klinemj]

beevil

You will find that some of the XLR inputs/outputs on Emo gear is for fully balanced internals (like on the XPA-1, the XSP-1 preamp...which is a fine unit, the DC-1, and the XMC-1). The ones on the xpa-2/3/5/...are just for the reasons stated...convenience, for long runs, secure connections, etc. If you ask Emotiva, they will confirm,and there are indications of this in the product info on the website but it is not fully clear. For example, the XPA-2 manual states that is "accepts balanced inputs", but does not say the signal remains balanced throughout. It reads differently for the products which remain balanced throughout. But, if you just look at the pix and see it has XLR's, you would not know.

Mark

[beevil]

Well that's disappointing. I was looking forward to finally hearing what all this noise was about using balanced inputs. Well that's a black mark against Emotiva in my books. I went over the manual again and it is definitely deceiving. It sure sounds like you are getting balanced inputs with the XPA-2. I'm going to try using them anyway just to see but I'll probably stick with regular connectors.

Thanks for the heads up all

Andrew

[garbulky]

Hi beevil. I gotta tell you I was suprised to. However...it is not a black mark against Emotiva. You look at any of the competition that has XLR inputs including all the pro gear and you'll find that none of it is fully balanced. The only thing near Emotiva's price that is fully balanced is ATI gear and they tend to be pretty pricey. It isn't until you get up in the price spectrum do you find true fully balanced amps. And when they are fully balanced they are advertised as being exactly that.

This is because fully balanced amplification requires double the circuitry hence it increases cost significantly. That's why it cannot be taken for granted.
Having said that XLR does have noise cancellation benefits. And long cable run benefits. Also some sources simply sound BETTER from their XLR outputs.
However Emotiva has the CHEAPEST fully balanced game in town with their XPA-1 L amplifiers and also their mighty XPA-1 gen 2 amps. I challenge you to find another that can match the XPA-1 L which is fully balanced.

Having said all that, your Luxman is a thing of beauty. I don't know how it sounds but I imagine it's absolutely fantastic. I would stick with what you've got unless you've found a preamp that sounds better. What source DAC unit are you using?

Emotiva has a fully balanced line up. They are identified as differential reference.
These are all the fully balanced products

XDA-1, XDA-2, DC-1 (presumed)
ERC-1, ERC-2, ERC-3
XSP-1 (Balanced unless you use the subwoofer management)
XMC-1 (balanced on front two channels only)
XPA-1 L gen 1 and 2, XPA-1 gen 1 and 2, XPR-1

[brutiarti]

Oct 19, 2015 9:51:50 GMT -5 beevil said:

Well that's disappointing. I was looking forward to finally hearing what all this noise was about using balanced inputs. Well that's a black mark against Emotiva in my books. I went over the manual again and it is definitely deceiving. It sure sounds like you are getting balanced inputs with the XPA-2. I'm going to try using them anyway just to see but I'll probably stick with regular connectors.

Thanks for the heads up all

Andrew

Andrew, don't feel discouraged about having an amp that is not true balanced. I have a complete balanced system and probably i cannot tell the difference if i have everything connected single ended in a blind test listening. If you wanna experiment with a full balanced amp i will try the xpa-1l monoblocks as garbulky suggested.

[klinemj]

Oct 19, 2015 9:51:50 GMT -5 beevil said:

Well that's a black mark against Emotiva in my books. I went over the manual again and it is definitely deceiving. It sure sounds like you are getting balanced inputs with the XPA-2.

I certainly understand your frustration. As others note, it is common in the industry to accept the XLR inputs, yet not have fully balanced circuits within the gear. And you likely would not hear the difference unless you have long cable runs and interference sources that might impact RCA cables. The bigger difference, frankly, would be made by quality of internal components and overall design of the component.

In the future, whether you buy from Emotiva or others, if you want to make sure that the component is fully balanced internally, it is always best to ask because the info in literature/web sites can be confusing. I now know from experience that when Emotiva says a piece of gear "accepts XLR/balanced inputs" that this is no guarantee it is internally balanced through the whole thing. It is so only if they explicitly say it is (and even then, there can be confusion...for example, the XSP-1 is fully balanced through it as long as you don't use the tone controls and I think if you don't use the crossovers). Net, always best to ask in advance.

Mark

[yves]

[repeetavx]

Ok, we're into the the balanced vs. unbalanced debate again.

Emotiva "unbalanced" amplifiers accept, at their balanced inputs, two out of phase signals. These two signals are used to cancel any noise that may have been picked up during that cable's run.

Then amplified and sent to the speakers.



Emotiva "balanced" amplifiers accept, at their balanced inputs, two out of phase signals. These two signals are used to cancel any noise that may have been picked up during that cable's run.

Then each of the two out of phase signals are sent through their own amplifiers (yes balanced monoblocks have two channels). These two out of phase, amplified, signals are summed to cancel any noise that may have been created during the amplification process. Then sent to the speakers.



The only Emotiva amplifiers that run "fully balanced" (a single signal, split into opposite phases through two separate channels) are:
XPR-1
XPA-1
XPA-1L

All other Emotiva amplifiers, stereo and multichannel, simply amplify the noise cancelled inputs.

[Cogito]

Oct 18, 2015 20:27:10 GMT -5 beevil said:

I'm currently running my XPA-2 Gen 2's with my Luxman C-05 preamp with great success. But I'm curious about using the balanced inputs on the XPA-2's. I'm running 2 actually in bridged mode in to my Carver Amazing Silvers. Anyway, in order to try the balanced inputs I recently purchased a Classe DR-6 MKII with a great phono stage, seperate power supply and balanced outputs. I'm hoping this will make a huge difference but not holding my breath.

Has anyone else tried a balanced preamp with their XPA-2 amp? What are you using and did it make a night and day difference?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Andrew

My XPA-2 Gen.2 is driven by a my fully balanced XSP-2 Gen.2. I tried both a borrowed set of BlueJeans XLR cables and Monoprice RCA connectors. I could not discern any audible difference between the two. As such, I decided to use the Monoprice cables I already owned and saved myself a few bucks not having to buy XLR connectors.

[beevil]

Oct 19, 2015 10:01:15 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Hi beevil. I gotta tell you I was suprised to. However...it is not a black mark against Emotiva. You look at any of the competition that has XLR inputs including all the pro gear and you'll find that none of it is fully balanced. The only thing near Emotiva's price that is fully balanced is ATI gear and they tend to be pretty pricey. It isn't until you get up in the price spectrum do you find true fully balanced amps. And when they are fully balanced they are advertised as being exactly that.

This is because fully balanced amplification requires double the circuitry hence it increases cost significantly. That's why it cannot be taken for granted.
Having said that XLR does have noise cancellation benefits. And long cable run benefits. Also some sources simply sound BETTER from their XLR outputs.
However Emotiva has the CHEAPEST fully balanced game in town with their XPA-1 L amplifiers and also their mighty XPA-1 gen 2 amps. I challenge you to find another that can match the XPA-1 L which is fully balanced.

Having said all that, your Luxman is a thing of beauty. I don't know how it sounds but I imagine it's absolutely fantastic. I would stick with what you've got unless you've found a preamp that sounds better. What source DAC unit are you using?

Emotiva has a fully balanced line up. They are identified as differential reference.
These are all the fully balanced products

XDA-1, XDA-2, DC-1 (presumed)
ERC-1, ERC-2, ERC-3
XSP-1 (Balanced unless you use the subwoofer management)
XMC-1 (balanced on front two channels only)
XPA-1 L gen 1 and 2, XPA-1 gen 1 and 2, XPR-1

Thanks all for the great information. Loving this board. People are so nice and helpful.

I'm using a vintage Esoteric (Teac) D-1 DAC. But I rarely use it. I usually listen to my turntable front end. Technics SP-10 MK2A in a 3 layer slate plinth, Sumiko MDC-800 tonearm and my Kiseki Agaat Ruby cartridge. Crazy good combination. I'm hoping the Classe will out perform my Luxman but not holding my breath.

[rcheliguy]

Oct 18, 2015 20:27:10 GMT -5 beevil said:

I'm currently running my XPA-2 Gen 2's with my Luxman C-05 preamp with great success. But I'm curious about using the balanced inputs on the XPA-2's. I'm running 2 actually in bridged mode in to my Carver Amazing Silvers. Anyway, in order to try the balanced inputs I recently purchased a Classe DR-6 MKII with a great phono stage, seperate power supply and balanced outputs. I'm hoping this will make a huge difference but not holding my breath.

Has anyone else tried a balanced preamp with their XPA-2 amp? What are you using and did it make a night and day difference?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Andrew

I'm running an OPPO 105D with XLR outputs to my XPA-2 and it sounds great.
To be fair I tried using the unbalanced outputs and couldn't hear any difference. I have no background hum or noise that I can pick up on.

[beevil]

[/quote]I'm running an OPPO 105D with XLR outputs to my XPA-2 and it sounds great.
To be fair I tried using the unbalanced outputs and couldn't hear any difference. I have no background hum or noise that I can pick up on.
[/quote]


That's good to know. Once I get the Classe DR-6 I'm going to try both outputs abd see what's what. Nice player. I'm thinking of getting a Marantz 6005 CD player. But not sure as I already hardly use my Esoteric transport and DAC.

Andrew

[garbulky]

By the way your esoteric DAC appears to use a true multi bit DAC processing at 18 bits. Nowadays most DACs are one bit! And the reason for it is that it's cheaper. (The other being it's easier to get higher SNR values). But nowadays other than Schiit, the ability to buy true multibit decoding solutions is very pricey

[rcheliguy]

Oct 21, 2015 23:15:32 GMT -5 garbulky said:

By the way your esoteric DAC appears to use a true multi bit DAC processing at 18 bits. Nowadays most DACs are one bit! And the reason for it is that it's cheaper. (The other being it's easier to get higher SNR values). But nowadays other than Schiit, the ability to buy true multibit decoding solutions is very pricey

I never use my OPPO 105D as a CD player anymore.  I rip everything and use JRiver software to serve up the music by asynchronous USB to the OPPO 105D DAC's.

It has great DAC's and a clean output stage.  It is quite a bargain for the quality.

I've tried  192kHz 24 bit music from HDTracks but the OPPO's DAC's do a great job with 16bit 44.1kHz music compressed to 320kbps.

My electro static speakers are pretty revealing and I can't hear any differences in sound quality and sound stage using 320kbps mp3's vs  uncompressed  192kHz 24 bit music from HDTracks.