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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 28, 2015 6:46:51 GMT -5
I ask out of curiosity - To be a competitor, the preamp would need to be: All-analog - stereo only Offer fully-balanced circuitry Have built-in, fully-balanced analog bass management Have exceptional sound quality Note that I've said nothing about price here - I don't know of any other company that even MAKES such a preamp at any price. There are lots of preamplifiers on the market, but other than AV dreck, I don't know of any that offer bass management. The alternative would be to use a stereo preamplifier and then add an external crossover for about $3K:  Even then, would you have the SQ of the XSP-1? So if there aren't any equivalent preamps, would there be any value in "hot rodding" the XSP-1? It isn't as "mod friendly" as older preamps (that eschewed surface-mount parts), but it is still possible. Since Emotiva operates on a volume basis, there probably isn't any likelihood of them offering premium versions of their products, but it would seem that there might be a market for a smaller shop to do mods. Just a thought... And yes, any mod would void the (valuable) Emotiva warranty, but the ultimate cost is low, even if you accidentally destroy the test unit. Against the idea of any modifications are the facts that: Emotiva has good designers Their products are already exceptionally good-sounding for their price The Emo design team is shrewd at selecting the most important parts and spending what's needed there But the question remains, if the design team had been offered a much higher budget, what changes would they have made? Nobody believes that the XSP-1 is the best analog preamp that Emotiva can produce - it's only the best one that they thought they could sell given the price target. Boom |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 28, 2015 8:18:04 GMT -5
Krll Illusion preamplifier that use CAST technology (like Audio GD's flagship HE-1 pre amp) are fully balanced, have bass management and it uses separated power supply from chassis. They are also dual mono. www.krellonline.com/preamplifiers.htmlCost $17 k However surprisingly its SNR specs aren't off the charts and is maybe lower than the XSP-1. However the Krell preamp uses zero feedback in its design. While I'm pretty sure the XSP-1 uses feedback of some type. The audio GD HE-1 uses CAST technology but lacks the all important bass management. www.audio-gd.com/HE/HE-1/HE-1EN_Specs.htmCost $2100 And it also beats the XSP-1's SNR Figures running at greater than 130db snr with its regenerative power supply. But sadly no bass management which is a bummer  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 28, 2015 9:10:00 GMT -5
Well, Gar, if you'll pay me back the $17K you owe me for all your instruments, I'll try out one of the Krell preamps! LOL
I appreciate the feedback, and suspect that (as I originally thought), the XSP-1 is unique.
I'm surprised that some enterprising person hasn't yet set up a mod service for the unit, though. You want to start a business?
Boom
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jlamo
Sensei
Its a good day!
Posts: 192
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Post by jlamo on Oct 28, 2015 9:10:06 GMT -5
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Post by garbulky on Oct 28, 2015 9:21:18 GMT -5
Hey you specifically said you didn't mention the price in the question!  |
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Post by pedrocols on Oct 28, 2015 9:25:10 GMT -5
Kind of different product because the Parasound hsa a built in DAC. |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 28, 2015 9:26:59 GMT -5
Yes the Krell Illusioni 2 has a built in DAC and I didin't include it either. That costs 7K
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jlamo
Sensei
Its a good day!
Posts: 192
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Post by jlamo on Oct 28, 2015 9:34:37 GMT -5
Kind of different product because the Parasound hsa a built in DAC. IF the p5 can hold its own and compare with the features the xsp does have ,I think the dac is a welcomed extra. I would love to see a Emotiva build this feature set or include the dac in the xsp package. |
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Post by brutiarti on Oct 28, 2015 9:45:22 GMT -5
Boom is right, there is nothing out there like the XSP-1 and specially at that price. Regarding sound qualities is in the same level as the JC2 from parasound at 4.5K to my ears at least but it lacks bass management.
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Post by pedrocols on Oct 28, 2015 9:53:44 GMT -5
Kind of different product because the Parasound hsa a built in DAC. IF the p5 can hold its own and compare with the features the xsp does have ,I think the dac is a welcomed extra. I would love to see a Emotiva build this feature set or include the dac in the xsp package. Precisely. However, that would be a different product. |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 28, 2015 11:08:41 GMT -5
Now of interest, I do not actually know of any fully balanced subwoofers. (Unless they are passive that is)
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 28, 2015 11:15:58 GMT -5
DACs change - today's premium is tomorrow's yawn. And they sound differently! You wouldn't think so, but they definitely do. It isn't just the chip-set used either. Besides, DAC -prices are falling quicker than Miley Cyrus' inhibitions. Which is to say that although they aren't paying you to take one yet...  Other than loudspeakers, the front end (phono cartridge or DAC) makes the biggest difference in the sound of a system (ignoring for the moment room treatments). Preamps and power amps can make some difference, but not as much, IMHO, as the DAC. Since DACs are still changing so rapidly, I'd think that buying a preamp or integrated amp with a built-in DAC is buying instant obsolescence. Yes, you CAN use an external DAC to the analog inputs of such DAC-enabled preamp or integrated, but a significant portion of what you paid for is being bypassed. So if Emotive's designers HAD had 2x the development / construction budget on the XSP-1, what WOULD they have improved? Boom |
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Post by monkumonku on Oct 28, 2015 11:17:48 GMT -5
DACs change - today's premium is tomorrow's yawn. And they sound differently! You wouldn't think so, but they definitely do. It isn't just the chip-set used either. Besides, DAC -prices are falling quicker than Miley Cyrus' inhibitions. Which is to say that although they aren't paying you to take one yet... Other than loudspeakers, the front end (phono cartridge or DAC) makes the biggest difference in the sound of a system (ignoring for the moment room treatments). Preamps and power amps can make some difference, but not as much, IMHO, as the DAC. Since DACs are still changing so rapidly, I'd think that buying a preamp or integrated amp with a built-in DAC is buying instant obsolescence. Yes, you CAN use an external DAC to the analog inputs of such DAC-enabled preamp or integrated, but a significant portion of what you paid for is being bypassed. So if Emotive's designers HAD had 2x the development / construction budget on the XSP-1, what WOULD they have improved? Boom Why'd you post that? I had to spray my monitor with Lysol!!! |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 28, 2015 11:21:10 GMT -5
I got dain bramage!
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Post by pedrocols on Oct 28, 2015 11:30:43 GMT -5
DACs change - today's premium is tomorrow's yawn. And they sound differently! You wouldn't think so, but they definitely do. It isn't just the chip-set used either. Besides, DAC -prices are falling quicker than Miley Cyrus' inhibitions. Which is to say that although they aren't paying you to take one yet... Other than loudspeakers, the front end (phono cartridge or DAC) makes the biggest difference in the sound of a system (ignoring for the moment room treatments). Preamps and power amps can make some difference, but not as much, IMHO, as the DAC. Since DACs are still changing so rapidly, I'd think that buying a preamp or integrated amp with a built-in DAC is buying instant obsolescence. Yes, you CAN use an external DAC to the analog inputs of such DAC-enabled preamp or integrated, but a significant portion of what you paid for is being bypassed. So if Emotive's designers HAD had 2x the development / construction budget on the XSP-1, what WOULD they have improved? Boom Why'd you post that? I had to spray my monitor with Lysol!!! Just be mindful that Lysol kills only 99.99% of the bacteria so I would strongly suggest you buy a new monitor.... |
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
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Post by novisnick on Oct 28, 2015 11:31:01 GMT -5
Boom, Im not the most experianced in the field of audio as you know, but I realy dont think anything can touch the XSP-1 gen2,, ive owned both gens, for the quality CRAFTMANSHIP and a reasonable price. As you say, DACs are the flavor of the week, a great preamp is forever,,,,,,,almost! It work! it sounds great! its priced right! What else do you want? novisnick |
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on Oct 28, 2015 11:33:44 GMT -5
Why'd you post that? I had to spray my monitor with Lysol!!! Just be mindful that Lysol kills only 99.99% of the bacteria so I would strongly suggest you buy a new monitor.... I NEED a shower now!,,,,,thank you!!  |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 28, 2015 11:37:48 GMT -5
The XSP-1 is a pretty special preamp for features, value, and sound quality. Before it came out I was considering a McIntosh tube preamp (I was coming from an ARC tube pre). Mac has added DACs to most of their preamps, you may have to go to their top of the line now to get analog only. The feature set and price of the XSP-1 made it easy to try, the sound made it easy to keep. I'm merging my HT and 2C systems so I no longer needed it.
There was someone here who was asking if people were interested in Emotiva mods, but most discouraged him. There are a few places modding the XSP-1 would be useful, I'd like detents on the sub crossover to hit specific frequencies repeatably, but I'd rather have it on the remote which would be hard to mod. Maybe there could be some improvements in sound quality, the cost of the base unit makes it an attractive thought, especially a used Gen-1.
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Post by vcautokid on Oct 28, 2015 11:51:04 GMT -5
Well truly balanced and differential at this price from anyone else? Nope.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 28, 2015 12:27:57 GMT -5
So let's morph this thread a bit. Even five years ago, AV preamps/receivers were distant (very, very distant) second-cousins to analog stereo gear in terms of sound quality. Has that changed? How good is the top of the line Denon, Onkyo, or Yamaha AVR compared STRICTLY IN STEREO MODE, AND STRICTLY ON SOUND QUALITY to today's best analog separates? How good is the top of the line Emotiva, Krell, or Bryston AV preamp/processor compared the same way to today's best analog preamps? Or, to make it more personal, now that the new has been buffed off, how good is the XMC-1 compared to the XSP-1 for stereo sound? Grand Canyon gap? Big gap? Small gap? How small? Can the mainstream AV companies compare with the best of analog or do they still run like a chicken being chased by a bottle rocket? Boom  |
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