Center channel speaker design pet peeve.

[bootman]

Jan 2, 2016 19:42:37 GMT -5 Axis said:

What is everyone's thought on this having a rear port. I would want to install it in a closed TV stand. May have to rethink.

Airmotiv C1 ($249 ea.): Three-way center channel loudspeaker with Airmotiv™ folded-ribbon tweeter. The C1 features a 3-way ported design, dual 5.25” woven Kevlar® woofers, one 3” woven Kevlar® midrange, and one 25mm x 32mm Airmotiv™ tweeter.

I miss the sealed ERs with the boundary condensation switch.

[bootman]

Jan 2, 2016 20:42:02 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

Jan 2, 2016 18:32:26 GMT -5 bootman said:

How about a nice sealed design with drivers that can take the power needed to get to proper levels?
Too simple?

Sounds simple, but having spent some time talking to my speaker guy (Edward at Adelaide Speakers) when we were deciding on the spec for my centre speaker, it wasn't as easy as it sounds (sic). Firstly there was the sonic signature, it is apparently very tricky to get a sealed enclosure design to sound the same as a ported design thoughout the frequency range. Since I already had transmission line loaded speakers in the other 4 positions as well as a dual ported sub, it was a no brainer to go with a ported design for the centre. Then there is the question of amplifier output, AVR's running out of grunt matching the non ported centre speaker with the ported others. This obviously doesn't apply in my case as I have plenty of grunt in reserve, but it may well do to the majority of potential customers.


Happy New Year
Gary

But you didn't put that center in an enclosed space, correct?

[LuisV]

Just some examples, but I agree with ya Boot as it would make more sense if there was a universal standard...  

Ascend Acoustics... front slotted ports:



My B&W HTM Matrix:



My 893 DIY Sealed:



DIY 1099 Ported:

[Axis]

Jan 2, 2016 20:42:36 GMT -5 bootman said:

Jan 2, 2016 19:42:37 GMT -5 Axis said:

What is everyone's thought on this having a rear port. I would want to install it in a closed TV stand. May have to rethink.

Airmotiv C1 ($249 ea.): Three-way center channel loudspeaker with Airmotiv™ folded-ribbon tweeter. The C1 features a 3-way ported design, dual 5.25” woven Kevlar® woofers, one 3” woven Kevlar® midrange, and one 25mm x 32mm Airmotiv™ tweeter.

I miss the sealed ERs with the boundary condensation switch.

The Emotiva XRC-6.2 center had two slit ports on the front.

[hemster]

Jan 2, 2016 20:42:36 GMT -5 bootman said:

Jan 2, 2016 19:42:37 GMT -5 Axis said:

What is everyone's thought on this having a rear port. I would want to install it in a closed TV stand. May have to rethink.

Airmotiv C1 ($249 ea.): Three-way center channel loudspeaker with Airmotiv™ folded-ribbon tweeter. The C1 features a 3-way ported design, dual 5.25” woven Kevlar® woofers, one 3” woven Kevlar® midrange, and one 25mm x 32mm Airmotiv™ tweeter.

I miss the sealed ERs with the boundary condensation switch.

Uh oh... condensation is not good for any speaker!  




What a difference a letter makes! I bet it was the fault of the spelt-chucker!   

[hemster]

I can't help but feel that we're over-analyzing here. Back ports for CC do not matter much. They are a heck of a lot better than sealed speakers and ports significantly improve low-end bass (regardless of front or back ports).

Hmmm.. I've not seen a side ported design.

[knucklehead]

Since we're posting pics of different center speakers here's mine. This is the photo taken after Selah Audio built it and before it was shipped to the original owner - forum member Rooster19. I bought the song towers and this custom made center from him. The song towers are a quarter wave transmission line speaker speaker which have a huge port on the back. The Selah center uses the same Hiquphon OW2 tweeter - the two 7" drivers and 4" driver are Seas. The cabinet is sealed. Timbre match is pretty close. This center speaker is as good as I've heard or owned. It rolls off after 70hz but gets to 55hz down only 5db or so.

 I've owned a lot of center speakers in the past 12-15 years. My first center speaker was a JBL S-Center from the Studio line with a pair of S-38 L/R. A very good sounding speaker line. Wish I'd kept those S-38 bookshelf speakers.




You can see this and all the other center channel speakers they make or have made here. It looks like they make sealed center speakers only.

[LuisV]

Jan 2, 2016 21:37:39 GMT -5 hemster said:

Hmmm.. I've not seen a side ported design.

Ha... I had to do a quick search... dual side ports... lol  

[hemster]

Jan 2, 2016 21:44:13 GMT -5 LuisV said:

Jan 2, 2016 21:37:39 GMT -5 hemster said:

Hmmm.. I've not seen a side ported design.

Ha... I had to do a quick search... dual side ports... lol  

Thanks for this. I never bothered Mr. Google but it seems they exist! However they also fall in the same category as rear ported in that the ports would be "covered" by anything on the sides. That said, it really doesn't matter as ports (regardless of front, rear or side) are better than sealed to reach lower bass extension and not strain the amp any more than needed. Thus ported are more efficient too.  

[hemster]

Jan 2, 2016 21:44:13 GMT -5 LuisV said:

Jan 2, 2016 21:37:39 GMT -5 hemster said:

Hmmm.. I've not seen a side ported design.

Ha... I had to do a quick search... dual side ports... lol  

^That guy designed his speaker for mounting recessed in a wall!   

[LuisV]

SMH   

[novisnick]

Center channel of mine.


                         


This speaker is just a little shorter then my towers, not by much! Big OH ports in this babay!!

[hemster]

Jan 2, 2016 22:18:52 GMT -5 novisnick said:

Center channel of mine.

This speaker is just a little shorter then my towers, not by much! Big OH ports in this babay!!

And I bet it sounds real nice too!  

[Deleted]

IMHO, there is more misinformation at this forum about center speakers than any other HT subject (including the myth about center speakers thread).  They should be considered just like the L&R speakers when ever possible/practical.   When I say just like I mean the exact same speaker or same brand and series with the same tweeter and mid in the same vertical orientation.  Obviously this (vertical orientation) is usually not possible in most modern rooms with HT furniture. Unfortunately this causes center speakers to be placed on their sides.  It also in many HT setups requires the center speaker to ignore all optimal placement considerations for the sake of how it looks in ones cabinet (where it does not belong).  Many times on top of the cabinet (if low) and then the TV on the center speaker or the TV on the wall is a preferable choice.  The center speaker should never if possible be placed inside a cabinet/box near the back boundary of the cabinet or back from the leading edge of the shelf it is on.  Some of the photos above when in a cabinet should have a hole cut in back of the cabinet with a rear ported center speaker to help.  Actually the same goes for all center speakers that they should have at least a foot or more of free space behind and next to the speaker when possible.  Buy and place your speakers where and how they sound the best and not how your wife or you think they look most elegant in the room.   Why waste all this time here posting about the most minute opinions about speaker wire, connectors, pre-pros, DAC's, and on and on when you buy a mis-matched center speaker and just throw it in a nice looking piece of furniture and then wonder why the front soundstage doesn't sound that great.  Buy a speaker from a knowledgeable brand that cares and specifically builds a horizontal center speaker (whether sealed, front ported or rear ported) that is an exact timber match for the left and right speakers.  My Emo ERM-1 (and the ERM-2 and 6.3) is a sealed center speaker (also L&R) with an offset (for a reason) superb high power handling tweeter and two adjacent high power mid/bass drivers that includes a boundary compensation switch (which works very well) to compensate when the speaker is placed by necessity too close to a near boundary (as it is in my room).  I spent a lot of time evaluating my choice of speakers (all 5 of them) for my open concept condo room before I made the final buying decision.  It paid off in spades as to my very sensitive ears and sounds wonderful, an almost perfectly smooth surround stage across the front as well as the 360 degree envelopment.   Test your front LCR speakers with tests tones (white or pink noise etc. or pre-pro test tones).  If from your seat the center speaker doesn't sound almost identical to the L&R you have lots of possible work to do.  The common myth that center speakers are for dialog only is baloney.  Occasionally the dialog might be recorded in the center track only but many times there will be significant leakage into the L&R channels.  Listen to other movie sounds, background music and multi-channel music and you will discovery lots of sound spread across the front three speakers.

[novisnick]

Jan 3, 2016 0:02:23 GMT -5 @chuckienut said:

IMHO, there is more misinformation at this forum about center speakers than any other HT subject (including the myth about center speakers thread).  They should be considered just like the L&R speakers when ever possible/practical.   When I say just like I mean the exact same speaker or same brand and series with the same tweeter and mid in the same vertical orientation.  Obviously this (vertical orientation) is usually not possible in most modern rooms with HT furniture. Unfortunately this causes center speakers to be placed on their sides.  It also in many HT setups requires the center speaker to ignore all optimal placement considerations for the sake of how it looks in ones cabinet (where it does not belong).  Many times on top of the cabinet (if low) and then the TV on the center speaker or the TV on the wall is a preferable choice.  The center speaker should never if possible be placed inside a cabinet/box near the back boundary of the cabinet or back from the leading edge of the shelf it is on.  Some of the photos above when in a cabinet should have a hole cut in back of the cabinet with a rear ported center speaker to help.  Actually the same goes for all center speakers that they should have at least a foot or more of free space behind and next to the speaker when possible.  Buy and place your speakers where and how they sound the best and not how your wife or you think they look most elegant in the room.   Why waste all this time here posting about the most minute opinions about speaker wire, connectors, pre-pros, DAC's, and on and on when you buy a mis-matched center speaker and just throw it in a nice looking piece of furniture and then wonder why the front soundstage doesn't sound that great.  Buy a speaker from a knowledgeable brand that cares and specifically builds a horizontal center speaker (whether sealed, front ported or rear ported) that is an exact timber match for the left and right speakers.  My Emo ERM-1 (and the ERM-2 and 6.3) is a sealed center speaker (also L&R) with an offset (for a reason) superb high power handling tweeter and two adjacent high power mid/bass drivers that includes a boundary compensation switch (which works very well) to compensate when the speaker is placed by necessity too close to a near boundary (as it is in my room).  I spent a lot of time evaluating my choice of speakers (all 5 of them) for my open concept condo room before I made the final buying decision.  It paid off in spades as to my very sensitive ears and sounds wonderful, an almost perfectly smooth surround stage across the front as well as the 360 degree envelopment.   Test your front LCR speakers with tests tones (white or pink noise etc. or pre-pro test tones).  If from your seat the center speaker doesn't sound almost identical to the L&R you have lots of possible work to do.  The common myth that center speakers are for dialog only is baloney.  Occasionally the dialog might be recorded in the center track only but many times there will be significant leakage into the L&R channels.  Listen to other movie sounds, background music and multi-channel music and you will discovery lots of sound spread across the front three speakers.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

                                           

[Gary Cook]

Jan 2, 2016 20:43:53 GMT -5 bootman said:

Jan 2, 2016 20:42:02 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

Sounds simple, but having spent some time talking to my speaker guy (Edward at Adelaide Speakers) when we were deciding on the spec for my centre speaker, it wasn't as easy as it sounds (sic). Firstly there was the sonic signature, it is apparently very tricky to get a sealed enclosure design to sound the same as a ported design thoughout the frequency range. Since I already had transmission line loaded speakers in the other 4 positions as well as a dual ported sub, it was a no brainer to go with a ported design for the centre. Then there is the question of amplifier output, AVR's running out of grunt matching the non ported centre speaker with the ported others. This obviously doesn't apply in my case as I have plenty of grunt in reserve, but it may well do to the majority of potential customers.

But you didn't put that center in an enclosed space, correct?

Correct, my stand is open on all sides.

Happy New Year
Gary

[Lsc]

Jan 3, 2016 0:02:23 GMT -5 @chuckienut said:

IMHO, there is more misinformation at this forum about center speakers ...

I think this misinformation is from years back but not so much anymore. Of course I would want 7 identical speakers and 4 subs but that'll probably never happen.

[Chuck Elliot]

One of the best moves I ever made with my HT was to add a third Klipsch Heresy as my center!!!

If I could afford it my front would be 3 Klipsch Belle speakers with the center serving as a TV stand!

[Deleted]

Jan 3, 2016 3:02:03 GMT -5 Lsc said:

Jan 3, 2016 0:02:23 GMT -5 @chuckienut said:

IMHO, there is more misinformation at this forum about center speakers ...

I think this misinformation is from years back but not so much anymore. Of course I would want 7 identical speakers and 4 subs but that'll probably never happen.

I'm actually talking about right up to date.   7 speakers that are from the same brand and series is the logical and best way to set up a 5+ or 7+ HT system.  I don't mean to get on Boomzilla as we agree on many subjects but IMO his thread on the myth of matched center speaker is light years off track.  Even one esteemed Lounge Lizard seems to have lost his marbles in this thread.  I didn't even post in this thread as I didn't want to get into the never ending arguments about matching center speakers.  Look for yourself at members current signatures and you will find many examples of very strange L&R and center speaker combinations and center speakers in members photos way misplaced.  The perfect center speaker if the room allows is the exact same speaker for the center as the L&R and all in the vertical orientation.   Most rooms don't allow this on a practical basis so exact timbre matching is the next best thing.  How many stereo systems with mis-matched L&R speakers do you know of?  Some will say this is a stretch but there are a lot of legitimate similarities in this comparison.

emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/42936/myth-matching-center-channel-speaker-745343

[Deleted]

Jan 3, 2016 3:36:16 GMT -5 Chuck Elliot said:

One of the best moves I ever made with my HT was to add a third Klipsch Heresy as my center!!!

If I could afford it my front would be 3 Klipsch Belle speakers with the center serving as a TV stand!

Even now in the summer some quiet evenings with the bedroom window open we can hear some slight sounds of music from afar.  Noriko says to me:  それは一体何でしょうか？  Sore wa ittai nanideshou ka?  (What the hell is that?).  I respond, oh that is probably Chuck Elliot cranking up his Heresy's in Portland.  She says, I didn't know he lived in Oregon.  I say, no in Portland, Maine.  She says aso-desu ka (oh, I see).

Thank God he never got the three LCR Belle's!