XPA-2 versus SA-250

[mtolesen]

Hi,

First of all please excuse me if this question has been asked before, I am new here.

I may soon order a new Emotiva power amp, and until now, I have very much liked the XPA-2 since I think it is super value for the money.

Now I also have begun to look at the SA-250, I can see that it have a little lower output power, and that the power supply capacitor bank are bigger, the power transformer seems to be the same and then it is more expensive.

Now I am really in doubt what to chose, is the SA-250 much better than the XPA-2, is is same internal power amplifire modules used in the two models, and what is the real difference between them?

I am going to drive a pair of JBL L90 speakers with one of these amplifires:

www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/jbl/l90-int.shtml

It would be great to have a better understanding of the difference between these two amps.

Best regards

Martin Olesen
Denmark

[frenchyfranky]

I don't remember had reading a direct comparative, I myself wonder about the sounding differences.

[garbulky]

I haven't heard that specific JBL but the ones I've heard I don't think you should go around spending tons of money for amps. XPA-2 used is my suggestion due to its large drivers.

[hemster]

Your JBLs are rated at 90 dB sensitivity and JBL recommend 50W - 300W power to drive them.

The SA-250 pours out 400 watts and costs USD 1119. The XPA-2 outputs 500 watts @ 4 ohms and can be had at USD 719 currently.

If selectable gain is desirable then the only option is the SA-250. It offers a choice of 23dB or 29dB whereas the XPA-2 is 29dB only.

Seriously, I doubt you'll regret buying either one. If I were you, I'd go for the XPA-2 and spend some money saved on other material things. Like room treatments or music. Or massage therapy. Hey the XPA-2 is a heavy beast!

[mtolesen]

Hi Hemster,

Good advise, the XPA-2 and a massage sounds good :-)))
Hemster, when will I need selectable gain?, is it if my preamp is not feeding enough signal to the poweramp?

Also, do you know if there are big difference between the internal circuit design from the XPA-2 to the SA-250?, I just try to understand the differences between the two amps.

[hemster]

Most preamps' output signal is sufficient and for most home audio equipment, the gain setting will be 29 dB. However, if your source equipment has an unusually high output level, or you notice excessive background noise when no audio is present, the 23 dB setting may provide better results. This applies more to professional gear rather than consumer audio equipment. The SA-250 has independent gain controls for each channel. Note that the tests and measurements published by Emotiva are with the gain set to 29 dB.

As far as differences in internal circuit designs, both amps are class AB so design would be similar but I would expect some variation that allows better noise isolation in the SA-250 which also likely uses higher quality components resulting in lower distortion. That's not to say that the XPA-2 is shabby by any means. 

Just consider the quality of the rest of your equipment, room, listening preferences and decide if you'll be able to discern the difference between these two amps. That's hard in practice because one doesn't have the luxury of auditioning each amp in one's own room.
For me, it's always a cost:benefit thing.  

[mtolesen]

Hi Hemster,

Thank you very much for the answers, I will strongly consider the XPA-2.
My next challange will now be the well known "how to convince the wife that buying this amp is a fantastic decission for both of us..." :-)
Right now I have a Pioneer VSX-AX2AV surround amp, my thought is that I want to use it in 2 channel stereo mode, and only as preamp, and then feed the XPA-2 from it's front speaker line out. I guess that will work, right?

[wilden]

I had the XPA-2 Gen 2 and traded it in for the SA-250. The SA-250 is a better sounding amp. No doubt about it. Worth the extra money. It didn't take very long to hear the virtues of the SA-250. The XPA-2 is a little bright and can be harsh (at least with my speakers) The SA-250's treble is more relaxed, extended, and simply a joy to listen to. Cymbals sound fantastic. The SA-250 is also better in the bass. I had to throttle down my subwoofer a couple of notches. The bass is more extended and packs a lot of impact. The midrange is where the SA-250 is a clear winner. It’s not only better than the XPA-2 but also better than most amps I listened to, including Krell (integrated), Adcom, Rotel, NAD, Marantz, and Denon. There is a sense of control and authority in the sound with the SA-250 that must be heard to really grasp what it is capable of doing. The XPA-2 is a fine amp, don’t get me wrong. I had it for over a year and was happy with it. But to answer your question honestly: the SA-250 is better. Just my two cents.

[hemster]

Martin, feeding the amp from your Pioneer VSX-AX2AV's pre-out L & R terminals will work fine.

As far as convincing the wife, you'll have to fight that one on your own I'm afraid!  
Maybe try the line that an amp will save on heat and reduce your electric bills.    Nah, maybe send her for a few spa sessions with the difference saved. 

[frenchyfranky]

Jan 13, 2016 15:25:00 GMT -5 wilden said:

I had the XPA-2 Gen 2 and traded it in for the SA-250. The SA-250 is a better sounding amp. No doubt about it. Worth the extra money. It didn't take very long to hear the virtues of the SA-250. The XPA-2 is a little bright and can be harsh (at least with my speakers) The SA-250's treble is more relaxed, extended, and simply a joy to listen to. Cymbals sound fantastic. The SA-250 is also better in the bass. I had to throttle down my subwoofer a couple of notches. The bass is more extended and packs a lot of impact. The midrange is where the SA-250 is a clear winner. It’s not only better than the XPA-2 but also better than most amps I listened to, including Krell (integrated), Adcom, Rotel, NAD, Marantz, and Denon. There is a sense of control and authority in the sound with the SA-250 that must be heard to really grasp what it is capable of doing. The XPA-2 is a fine amp, don’t get me wrong. I had it for over a year and was happy with it. But to answer your question honestly: the SA-250 is better. Just my two cents.

I really appreciate your evaluation, the comparison and comments are precises.

[garbulky]

Even if the SA-250 is better than the XPA-2.... due to his choice of speakers, I would say a used XPA-2 is the right choice. In fact I would have reccomended a UPA-200 or a used UPA-2. But those drivers are large and may need a bit of beefiness to get it going. If he had something different I may change my mind. But right now my mind goes to save him cost and still provide him the good performance he needs to match the performance of his speakers.

[mtolesen]

Hello All,

I really apriciate your input to my questions here, I like the entusiasme and the passion I can see people have for this brand, and I look forward to take my decission for new amplifire.
I may follow the advise to go for the XPA-2, but I think I will go for a new one, not used, and then use my Pioneer VSX-AX2AV af pre-amp in a transission phase until I find out if I want to have a new preamp, XMC-1, or the XSP-1.
Regarding room correction, I have ordered the little miniDSP from the company miniDSP, to play around with that, and maybe that leads me to go the full way and later invest in the XMC-1, we will see.
Best regards
Martin

[bugler]

I bought a new XPA-2 a couple of weeks ago direct from Emotiva. It replaced my beloved Phase Linear PL-400 that finally bought the farm after 43 years. They shipped very promptly. The PL had been heavily modded so it was up to date. No comparison in sound quality. The EMO has incredible clarity and plenty of reserve power. The XPA-2 is on sale for $719 I believe till the end of January. Darned good value. Construction is definitely top notch. I drive Carver Amazing Loudspeakers Silver Editions that are pretty power hungry and the XPA-2 makes them sing. Each speaker panel has a 48" ribbon (love ribbons) and three 12" subwoofers. If you are concerned about input gain for $50 Emotiva offers the Control Freak passive volume control. For $40 they offer the ET-3 Trigger Expansion Module. Check it out. I have one and it's awesome. It simply gets wired between the pre outs and the power amps inputs. Incidentally Emotiva offers an excellent transferable 5 year warranty. You may want to check with them about when the sale ends. It's a big deal as it is 20% off and free shipping. Their customer service is awesome. I always email my questions and they respond quite promptly.

Incidentally, many members of my Audio club own lots of Emo stuff. One buddy has an XSP preamp and two XPA-1L monoblocks, another has an XPA-2 and yet another has two XPA-1 monoblocks. When I feel well enough lots of my Audio buddies want to come to my place and audition my new amp. With the sale going on I wouldn't even consider buying used. I do have a lot of vintage gear but most of it I bought when it was new; mostly 70's. I guess that makes me vintage!

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

Holler if I can be of additional assistance.

[bugler]

Sorry. Double posted

[milsap195]

Thought I remember Lonnie saying the SA-250 was the best amp they produced?

[novisnick]

Jan 20, 2016 11:34:23 GMT -5 milsap195 said:

Thought I remember Lonnie saying the SA-250 was the best amp they produced?

I think it may have been stated as the best pro or studio amp they have produced. but,,,,,,,,,,I may be wrong!! 

[garbulky]

He said none of their other amps could touch it in terms of audio quality. Though I'm not sure why.

[seppo]

1)
For comparison of XPA-2 v. SA-250, see the comments I collected here:
emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/730853/thread

2)
Lonnie's original comment was in a November 2014 podcast, here:
emotiva.com/sites/default/files/podcasts/112014/podcast.mp3

The relevant comment by Lonnie is at around 12+ minute mark:

"...none of the amplifiers we build right now can even touch it...I mean, the THD, the power output, the signal to noise ratio, everything about is at whole another level..."

3)
Note also this statement in the SA-250 manual, on page 7:

"...The SA-250 was designed to be the the flagship amplifier for a new line of super-high-end studio equipment. Although it inherits its short signal path Class A/B architecture from our audiophile equipment, the SA-250 incorporates several circuit refinements and additions that raise its performance to a whole new level. The massively overbuilt power supply allows the SA-250 to drive any real-world speaker load effortlessly and with aplomb..."
emotiva.com/resources/manuals/SA-250_user_manual_v11.pdf

4)
See also this post here (showing that basically the main board in Sherbourn PA-2-250 and SA-250 are very similar, even having the same stamping):
emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/699748/thread

5)
The bottom line for me is that I am still very happy with SA-250. It drives my nominally 3 Ohm, 86 dB sensitivity 250W rated Infinity RS-II's with ease, and sounds great while doing it.

[gzubeck]

Jan 20, 2016 14:20:49 GMT -5 garbulky said:

He said none of their other amps could touch it in terms of audio quality. Though I'm not sure why.

Its the power supply. If the sa 250 is better than anything else they have ive got to believe it. If you get that three dimensional palpability with warmth then the sa 250 is the amp to go with no matter what. Unless your driving incredibly difficult loads you really dont need more powa! What you need are cleaner power delivery at all signals thats completely efortless in its delivery to your speakers. Also if youneed more power you might want to upgrade your speakers tomore senitive ones in the 90db range.

[DavidR]

 

Jan 13, 2016 15:25:00 GMT -5 wilden said:

I had the XPA-2 Gen 2 and traded it in for the SA-250. The SA-250 is a better sounding amp. No doubt about it. Worth the extra money. It didn't take very long to hear the virtues of the SA-250. The XPA-2 is a little bright and can be harsh (at least with my speakers) The SA-250's treble is more relaxed, extended, and simply a joy to listen to. Cymbals sound fantastic. The SA-250 is also better in the bass. I had to throttle down my subwoofer a couple of notches. The bass is more extended and packs a lot of impact. The midrange is where the SA-250 is a clear winner. It’s not only better than the XPA-2 but also better than most amps I listened to, including Krell (integrated), Adcom, Rotel, NAD, Marantz, and Denon. There is a sense of control and authority in the sound with the SA-250 that must be heard to really grasp what it is capable of doing. The XPA-2 is a fine amp, don’t get me wrong. I had it for over a year and was happy with it. But to answer your question honestly: the SA-250 is better. Just my two cents.

That's an excellent 2 cents. I have both amps and completely agree with the above statement.  I also believe that the SA-250 has as much power as the XPA-2. Same size transformer; except the SA-250 has dual secondary windings - probably to feed the double capacitance of the XPA-2.  I drive AR90 4 ohm speakers: 4-way with 2 woofers in parallel. The amp barely gets warm even when driving the speakers hard/loud.  I have no problem getting great bass at low volume with the tone controls OFF. The SA-250 is a Pro amp (Studio Reference), sounds like it and performs like it. Plus it's ultra quiet.