Troubleshooting advice needed for HK AVR

[Boomzilla]

The unit under test is a HK AVR-146.

What I'm trying to do is to get audio data from the Oppo BDP-105 disc player through the built-in amps of the HK (preferably without having additional D/A - A/D conversions.

Limitations - As of now, I don't have a remote for the HK, but should have one within a week. Until the remote arrives, I can't access any of the HK's setup.

What I've done so far - Initially, I tried hooking up the HDMI-2 output from the Oppo to the HDMI-1 input on the HK. Despite selecting the HDMI-1 input from the HK's front-panel, I get no audio out of the HK. To see if the HK worked at all, I ran the analog outputs from the Oppo to the stereo "CD in" analog inputs on the HK - worked fine - good sound all the way through (including bass management via the HK). The HK's tuner works fine all the way to the speakers. I tried using the HDMI-2 input on the HK - same result - no audio output from the HK.

I went back and ensured that all HDMI outputs were enabled via the Oppo's startup menu & tried again. Still nothing via HDMI.

Thoughts on how to troubleshoot next - Might it be a bad HDMI cable? I have a spare & will try it today. If that doesn't work, then I could run all the analog outputs from the Oppo into the analog inputs of the HK, but this is sub-optimal for a number of reasons.

QUESTIONS:

Is there something I've missed?
How should I proceed from here on troubleshooting?
If I'm sending audio data to the HK via HDMI does the Oppo or the HK control surround sound decoding? I'd prefer the Oppo to do it & then just let the HK amplify the signals...

Thanks - Boom

[novisnick]

Apr 24, 2016 6:22:31 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

The unit under test is a HK AVR-146.

What I'm trying to do is to get audio data from the Oppo BDP-105 disc player through the built-in amps of the HK (preferably without having additional D/A - A/D conversions.

Limitations - As of now, I don't have a remote for the HK, but should have one within a week. Until the remote arrives, I can't access any of the HK's setup.

What I've done so far - Initially, I tried hooking up the HDMI-2 output from the Oppo to the HDMI-1 input on the HK. Despite selecting the HDMI-1 input from the HK's front-panel, I get no audio out of the HK. To see if the HK worked at all, I ran the analog outputs from the Oppo to the stereo "CD in" analog inputs on the HK - worked fine - good sound all the way through (including bass management via the HK). The HK's tuner works fine all the way to the speakers. I tried using the HDMI-2 input on the HK - same result - no audio output from the HK.

I went back and ensured that all HDMI outputs were enabled via the Oppo's startup menu & tried again. Still nothing via HDMI.

Thoughts on how to troubleshoot next - Might it be a bad HDMI cable? I have a spare & will try it today. If that doesn't work, then I could run all the analog outputs from the Oppo into the analog inputs of the HK, but this is sub-optimal for a number of reasons.

QUESTIONS:

Is there something I've missed?
How should I proceed from here on troubleshooting?
If I'm sending audio data to the HK via HDMI does the Oppo or the HK control surround sound decoding? I'd prefer the Oppo to do it & then just let the HK amplify the signals...

Thanks - Boom

Yes my very good friend, you missed the fact that the units very early HDMI does NOT carry the audio signal, only video to carry the audio you MUST use the optical input.

Look it up, I did yesterday.

Let me know if i may be of further assistance.

Nick

[Boomzilla]

I hooked up a TOSLINK optical cable from the AirPort Express to the TOSLINK input on the HK. Enabled Airfoil on the Mac server - selected JRiver as the Airfoil source - Then tried to cycle through the inputs on the HK to select the TOSLINK input - no such option.

I'm sure it's somewhere in the HK setup, and I'll download an owner's manual today to learn how to make it an option. The previous owner obviously customized the inputs to null any he didn't want & to customize the names of the rest for his uses (Wii, etc.).

I'll try the optical out from the Oppo to the HK immediately & see what I get.

Cheers (and thanks again) - Boom

OK - NONE of the optical inputs were available from the HK's "Source" menu, so I opted instead for the Coaxial digital input. Success with stereo - it plays. Will the coax input also pass 5.1 digital?

[knucklehead]

Nick is correct. From the HK manual on page 17:

NOTE: Although HDMI cables are capable of carrying digital
audio signals, the AVR 146 is not designed to process those
signals. Therefore, if your source and video display are both
HDMI-capable, use the HDMI connections for video only. Make
a separate audio connection from the source device to the
AVR 146, and turn the volume on your TV all the way off.

Since there are no direct channel inputs the next best way to send audio signals to the HK is via optical or coax if you are wanting multi-channel audio. For 2 channel use the analog outs on the Oppo direct to the analog inputs on the HK.

[knucklehead]

I'd start over & do a system/AVR reset if I were you Boom. From the manual:

To reset the AVR 146, place the receiver in Standby mode (press the
front-panel Standby/On Switch so that the Power Indicator turns amber).
Then press and hold the front-panel Surround Mode Button for at least
5 seconds until the RESET message appears in the display.

Inputs on the 146 are assignable so there is no telling what the PO might have monkeyed with.

[Boomzilla]

Thank you kindly, @knucklehead - I want for that remote to arrive before I mess with success - Right now it's working

[MusicHead]

Apr 24, 2016 10:40:19 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

I hooked up a TOSLINK optical cable from the AirPort Express to the TOSLINK input on the HK. Enabled Airfoil on the Mac server - selected JRiver as the Airfoil source - Then tried to cycle through the inputs on the HK to select the TOSLINK input - no such option.

I'm sure it's somewhere in the HK setup, and I'll download an owner's manual today to learn how to make it an option. The previous owner obviously customized the inputs to null any he didn't want & to customize the names of the rest for his uses (Wii, etc.).

I'll try the optical out from the Oppo to the HK immediately & see what I get.

Cheers (and thanks again) - Boom

OK - NONE of the optical inputs were available from the HK's "Source" menu, so I opted instead for the Coaxial digital input. Success with stereo - it plays. Will the coax input also pass 5.1 digital?

Coax (and optical) will pass 5.1, but not the HD uncompressed formats now available on Bluray. They are too bandwidth limited for that.

Whether or not the multichannel decoding is done in the Oppo or HK depends on how you set the Oppo digital output. PCM will be decoded in the Oppo, Bitstream in the HK.

[vcautokid]

Actually if you don't really want any further digital processing another way to go would be the 5.1 analog discrete inputs coming from your Oppo 105 analog outputs. Since the Oppo is doing all the processing, no need for the HK to do it again. Just run video straight to the TV via the HDMI out. Just another option.

[knucklehead]

That HK does not have direct channel inputs so that won't work. It'll have to be optical or coax or 2 channel analog.

[novisnick]

Apr 24, 2016 13:43:18 GMT -5 vcautokid said:

Actually if you don't really want any further digital processing another way to go would be the 5.1 analog discrete inputs coming from your Oppo 105 analog outputs. Since the Oppo is doing all the processing, no need for the HK to do it again. Just run video straight to the TV via the HDMI out. Just another option.

I think boom is looking to use the amp from the HK for surrounds or just the center channel.

[Boomzilla]

Actually, for movies, I'm looking for the HK to do the full 5.1. The Oppo probably has better audio decoding, though... But Knucklehead is right (again) and the inputs won't take analog audio without re-digitizing the stream. So for the time being, I'm thinking that the best option is to use the HK's coaxial input, provided it will pass the (compressed) audio in 5.1 mode. I'll test that this evening when I try a DVD. Video will go from the Oppo to the TV via HDMI and audio will go from the Oppo to the HK via coaxial digital. If it'll work, I'll use it until I find something I like better.

I'll download the HK manual & get familiar with it in anticipation of the remote arriving this week. Then, I'll take the suggestion to wipe the HK back to factory settings & set it up for my rig. But down the road, I'm considering a better AVR...

Maybe Anthem, Arcam, Rotel, NAD, or Cambridge?

[JKCashin]

My HK AVR-635 won't do any digital inputs by default. You need to configure them. Worse, it sometimes "forgets" that setting, and even when it does not, if it is turned on and is on an input that was configured for digital, and it sees no digital signal, it will fall back to the matching analog input. That is, until it sees a digital signal, which you told it to expect for that input... and that means there is an attendant thump when it starts decoding that signal. It's horrible. One reason the unit, despite being nearly $2,000 has sat in my basement in the corner, unused, displaced by an older Yamaha unit which believed me when I said "Yeah, see that input? It's gonna have a digital signal on it". It didn't tell me I was a liar. It accepted my configuration. It let me be the master! Mwuhahahah...

Umm... anyway, the good news is that in my case I am using the 8 channel analog inputs.... well, 50 of them anyway. Those inputs are on by default, even if you factory reset the unit. Which is perfect for my needs, using the unit as a 5 channel power amplifier for 5 surround analog unbalanced signals.

But this is about you not me, so I thought I would let you know that the older HKs at least tended to hunt for a signal when none was present... so you may get lag/thump.

Jamie

[Boomzilla]

The HK will do for now, but there's a better AVR somewhere on my event horizon... Options are two:

Option 1 - Buy the cheapest AVR you can get - It'll be obsolete in 15 minutes anyway. Buy another next year. This could work for me since I don't listen loudly & don't need any significant power. I can get an entry level AVR with HDMI 2.2a that passes SUHD / 4K / HDR for under $300.

Option 2 - Buy the best AVR you can get - The manufacturer will update their flagship as new technology comes along & it'll sound better (maybe) than the entry level model.

Of the two, I'm leaning toward the first...

And thanks, JKCashin - I'm willing to use the analog inputs just fine myself. I can let the Oppo be the master & just pass the signals through the HK's amps. Should I run the subs directly from the Oppo? Maybe not since I need to have their level vary with the HK's volume? If I'm to cascade the sub signal through the HK, how do I set the crossover in the Oppo's speaker management?

[MusicHead]

Apr 24, 2016 17:13:14 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

The HK will do for now, but there's a better AVR somewhere on my event horizon... Options are two:

Option 1 - Buy the cheapest AVR you can get - It'll be obsolete in 15 minutes anyway. Buy another next year. This could work for me since I don't listen loudly & don't need any significant power. I can get an entry level AVR with HDMI 2.2a that passes SUHD / 4K / HDR for under $300.

Option 2 - Buy the best AVR you can get - The manufacturer will update their flagship as new technology comes along & it'll sound better (maybe) than the entry level model.

Of the two, I'm leaning toward the first...

And thanks, JKCashin - I'm willing to use the analog inputs just fine myself. I can let the Oppo be the master & just pass the signals through the HK's amps. Should I run the subs directly from the Oppo? Maybe not since I need to have their level vary with the HK's volume? If I'm to cascade the sub signal through the HK, how do I set the crossover in the Oppo's speaker management?

Since I am partial to the Denon/Marantz stable, I'd say that the Denon AVR-S510BT fits nicely. It has all of the latest digital bells and whistles (including HDCP 2.2) and even Bluetooth connectivity as a bonus.  All of that for $280:

www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVS510B/Denon-AVR-S510BT.html?tp=179

I recently helped a friend to set up his first multi-channel system, He has always been a 2-ch guy since our high school days, when we started our addiction..errr. INTEREST in audio . He ended up preferring a Denon AVR-X1200, but we explored I think all of the entry level AVRs we could think of from HK, Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer and probably few others. The S510BT looked like the best bang for the buck if you can live with its modest power.

Happy hunting, in our hobby the journey is as enjoyable as the destination!

[JKCashin]

Apr 24, 2016 17:13:14 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

The HK will do for now, but there's a better AVR somewhere on my event horizon... Options are two:

Option 1 - Buy the cheapest AVR you can get - It'll be obsolete in 15 minutes anyway. Buy another next year. This could work for me since I don't listen loudly & don't need any significant power. I can get an entry level AVR with HDMI 2.2a that passes SUHD / 4K / HDR for under $300.

Option 2 - Buy the best AVR you can get - The manufacturer will update their flagship as new technology comes along & it'll sound better (maybe) than the entry level model.

Of the two, I'm leaning toward the first...

And thanks, JKCashin - I'm willing to use the analog inputs just fine myself. I can let the Oppo be the master & just pass the signals through the HK's amps. Should I run the subs directly from the Oppo? Maybe not since I need to have their level vary with the HK's volume? If I'm to cascade the sub signal through the HK, how do I set the crossover in the Oppo's speaker management?

Willing to spend another $125 on a MiniDSP? I've seen lots of people using them for bass management. Other than that I don't know. I am not sure how the Oppo does bass management.

[Boomzilla]

Well, I discovered that the HK DOES accept 5.1 audio over the coaxial digital connection. I further discovered that the Oppo passes the digital soundtrack from any disc UNALTERED to the coax. In other words, the Oppo's volume, trim levels, and bass management are NOT functional from that coaxial digital output jack. That's good news and bad - The AVR will have to decode the audio, and the coax connection supposedly isn't fast enough to pass blu-ray audio. So will the Oppo down-convert the audio to squeeze it through that coax, or will I just get noise?

[JKCashin]

But that means you're using the HKs DAC. The OPPO would have a far superior DAC.

[MusicHead]

Apr 24, 2016 20:51:50 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Well, I discovered that the HK DOES accept 5.1 audio over the coaxial digital connection. I further discovered that the Oppo passes the digital soundtrack from any disc UNALTERED to the coax. In other words, the Oppo's volume, trim levels, and bass management are NOT functional from that coaxial digital output jack. That's good news and bad - The AVR will have to decode the audio, and the coax connection supposedly isn't fast enough to pass blu-ray audio. So will the Oppo down-convert the audio to squeeze it through that coax, or will I just get noise?

Boom, as far as I know BD players sends audio only in  the Dolby Digital or DTS formats over coax. So you will get audio, but no better than what you would get from a DVD. It should be mentioned in the Oppo manual, though.

[MusicHead]

Apr 24, 2016 20:58:56 GMT -5 JKCashin said:

But that means you're using the HKs DAC. The OPPO would have a far superior DAC.

Since the HK has no multi-channel analog inputs (per knucklehead) no choice there, other than when listening to music in 2-ch (which is where the higher quality DACs of the Oppo would make a difference anyway).

I would use both digital coax and analog stereo outputs of the Oppo going into the corresponding HK inputs. The first for 5.1 movies, the second for 2-ch music (assuming Boom is interested in using this system for music).

[Boomzilla]

Apr 24, 2016 20:58:56 GMT -5 JKCashin said:

But that means you're using the HKs DAC. The OPPO would have a far superior DAC.

I wouldn't disagree - but if I send the analog outputs of the Oppo to the HK, I think that the HK re-digitizes the signal to do bass management. If so, then passing the digits through two successive DACs (the Oppo's and then the HK's) is worse than converting only once.

Yes?