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Post by goozoo on Sept 14, 2016 16:24:01 GMT -5
As some of you may have run into, the XMC-1 has in essence a limiter which limits the output of the channels to "prevent clipping". This unfortunately also means what sounds great at first, becomes quieter after a few seconds. I am just wondering if anyone has found a workaround for this or if Emo would consider a firmware solution that gives the user the ability to choose this option? One obvious way is to use a more powerful amp and set your output levels to zero. Any suggestions welcome.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Sept 14, 2016 17:41:28 GMT -5
I've never experienced this pattern.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Sept 14, 2016 18:47:06 GMT -5
Never have experience that, either.
Are you using Dirac or the PEQ's with large amounts of boost in certain frequency ranges? How loud do you like to listen?
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Post by millst on Sept 15, 2016 10:42:06 GMT -5
There is a brick wall limit on volume level (just stops getting louder, no softening) to prevent clipping when Dirac is applying a lot of boost. It might happen with the PEQ, too. If you are running into that, it has been well discussed around here. Otherwise, I have never heard or experienced what you describe.
-tm
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 15, 2016 18:38:01 GMT -5
As some of you may have run into, the XMC-1 has in essence a limiter which limits the output of the channels to "prevent clipping". Â XMC preventing clipping? Not possible, I would think. Sounds like a call to Emotiva for tech support is in order. I run 400 watts per channel to the XMC1 and have kicked up all HDMI inputs + 4db....LOUD as your ears could stand it when desired. Bill |
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Sept 15, 2016 19:10:53 GMT -5
As some of you may have run into, the XMC-1 has in essence a limiter which limits the output of the channels to "prevent clipping". XMC preventing clipping? Not possible, I would think. Sounds like a call to Emotiva for tech support is in order. I run 400 watts per channel to the XMC1 and have kicked up all HDMI inputs + 4db....LOUD as your ears could stand it when desired. Bill Yes, it can limit if PEQs, tone controls and/or Dirac combine for too much boost that would cause clipping. It will limit the maximum volume allowed. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 15, 2016 19:53:29 GMT -5
And...it what folks are saying is what is happening, you should be able to figure out which speaker/frequencies are demanding the boost by looking at the pre-Dirac response. And this will give you clues where to look for issues. You either have a room or speaker issue that is causing the demand for the boost. The XMC is politely telling you something is amiss and you should look deeper.
Mark
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Post by goozoo on Sept 16, 2016 2:12:40 GMT -5
Thanks for all the feedback. The PEQs are actually set to flatten the frequency response and not boost it as confirmed with REW. I can still turn up the volume, but just trying to figure out the why. I listen at -25dB, but am only pushing 125WPC, and have my gain per channel set higher to compensate. So, likely it is causing the clipping, etc, etc.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Sept 16, 2016 7:01:59 GMT -5
Thanks for all the feedback. The PEQs are actually set to flatten the frequency response and not boost it as confirmed with REW. I can still turn up the volume, but just trying to figure out the why. I listen at -25dB, but am only pushing 125WPC, and have my gain per channel set higher to compensate. So, likely it is causing the clipping, etc, etc. Setting the PEQ to flatten out the response can add some big gains in a specific frequency band if you're not careful. Like if you're compensating for a big room induced dip in the response somewhere. Adding channel gain would be in addition to an PEQ gains. The XMC can recognize cumulative gains from PEQ, channel levels, trims and loudness that would cause the output to go too high. |
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gabe
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Post by gabe on Oct 23, 2016 9:51:19 GMT -5
Does anybody make a decent balanced line amp? I may be one of the first to have posted on this lack of volume issue, and have just given up on "fixing" the problem. How about just letting Dirac do its thing then boosting the output of the XMC to the amp channels?
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 23, 2016 14:18:46 GMT -5
I don't know 🤔 for sure but it SOUNDS like you guys with the "limiting" and clipping may just not have an amplifier powerful enough to take you where you wish to go.....
Bill
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Oct 23, 2016 15:57:10 GMT -5
I don't know 🤔 for sure but it SOUNDS like you guys with the "limiting" and clipping may just not have an amplifier powerful enough to take you where you wish to go..... Bill Maybe,,,,,BUT maybe NOT,!!! I don't think I should have to pump the volume up to 19 or 20 on my XMC-1, but I do,,,,,at times. And I'm using a set of XPR-1's and Paradigm Studio 100's. Just my  Edit; Im speaking of HT mostly but both Stereo and HT are engaging Dirac. |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 23, 2016 17:26:28 GMT -5
I don't know 🤔 for sure but it SOUNDS like you guys with the "limiting" and clipping may just not have an amplifier powerful enough to take you where you wish to go..... Bill "I don't think I should have to pump the volume up to 19 or 20 on my XMC-1, but I do,,,,,at times." Those numbers are relative to your particular configuration and output levels, amplifier output, speaker sensitivity and size, etc. So difficult to say why one user's "20" will play too soft, while another "20" from somebody else will blow you out of the room. (Or perhaps, not so) Bill |
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Post by hosko on Oct 24, 2016 1:09:04 GMT -5
The joke in pro audio is if the mix isnt sounding good a rookie will increase the volume of an input, the problem is if you keep doing that eventually everything will be maxed out and no room to move. The is a reason most TV is set to peak at -10dbfs, so you have some headroom before clipping. Normally music will be the loudest source because modern music is compressed and design to play loud. Instead of gaining everything up to match, try reducing gain so things match. The limiter is not your friend, you never want to hit it. It doesn't matter what the volume knob is set to, what matters is not clipping anywhere in the chain.  Once you clip, say goodbye to sound quality, you can always amplify (turn the volume knob up) a lower, cleaner input. |
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gabe
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Post by gabe on Nov 28, 2016 8:48:35 GMT -5
As the Op originally stated, the output of the preamp is too low in Dirac mode. The XMC-1 replaced a Sunfire preamp and an Audio Control Diva in my system, everything else is the same. I never had a problem with enough available output with the Diva, but I do now.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 28, 2016 10:06:29 GMT -5
This may be more annoying but you may have to look at your room so you can treat it/move the subs/speakers places to avoid those large peaks and dips. That's essentially what is causing the limiting because DIRAC is applying a large eq to it. Unless I've got this completely backwards....
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Post by foggy1956 on Nov 28, 2016 12:20:32 GMT -5
This may be more annoying but you may have to look at your room so you can treat it/move the subs/speakers places to avoid those large peaks and dips. That's essentially what is causing the limiting because DIRAC is applying a large eq to it. Unless I've got this completely backwards.... I thought dirac only normalized peaks but did not boost dips? |
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Post by Gary Cook on Nov 28, 2016 14:47:39 GMT -5
As the Op originally stated, the output of the preamp is too low in Dirac mode. The XMC-1 replaced a Sunfire preamp and an Audio Control Diva in my system, everything else is the same. I never had a problem with enough available output with the Diva, but I do now. From memory the Diva displays the frequency response and so you should be able to see which frequencies it boosted, which it cut and how much. DIRAC in the XMC-1 should be comparable. I suspect that what you will find is that the Diva didn't have enough boost (for those low volume frequencies) whereas the XMC-1 does. That then manifests itself in lower overall volume being available. The solution is, as always, to fix the room acoustics first then apply corrections. Cheers Gary |
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Timster
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Post by Timster on Nov 29, 2016 3:42:11 GMT -5
Regardless of perceived sound quality if you aren't using correction, is there enough volume in the room with all correction and EQ defeated? Shouldnt that give you max output capability without the XMC resorting to limiting? Have you checked your bluray player settings?
I don't have an XMC, but I ran into a problem a few weeks back... Watching the latest Avengers, the impact and slam wasn't there. However I had read reviews that said it was not a demo worthy soundttrack so just thought it was the bluray. Then again last weekend watching Independence Day:Resurgence (please don't judge me...) I felt the same lack of slam etc. A quick look through all the settings revealed that at some point my Oppo (probably after a firmware "upgrade") had the dynamic range limiter activated.
BANG.... what a difference with it turned off.
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gabe
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Post by gabe on Nov 29, 2016 9:00:50 GMT -5
The Diva was set with a 1/3 octave RTA set to 1db resolution and had plenty of output. Everything is the same in the room as then, only the preamp has changed. The lack of output affects all inputs, not just disc based. There is more output in the other presets but I don't use them because I don't like the sound and I went with automatic room correction because I am done sitting on a milk crate for hours tweaking an EQ for room correction.
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