New T1's, need assistance

[wharfrat]

Forgive me if I don't get this quite right, I'm new to the forum business and have never written before. I should add that I have no background in engineering or electonics. What I do have is four-plus decades of experience listening to hundreds, if not thousands, of selections of most types of music on numerous sound systems, mine and others'.

I have owned a pair of T1's now about two weeks. Virtually every speaker I've owned has had excellent LF and mid-range response. It is the HF response I've found lacking all these years. I am aware of a slight hearing loss at the high end of the frequency range, but I believe I can still differentiate the sound quality produced by one system from another. I listen strictly to two-channel set-ups. My dilemma is this: the T1's have the best HF response I've heard so far, but it's still somewhat lacking (crash cymbals in particular have a somewhat muddy sound to them). I believe this is a result of the room environment and/or the speaker placement I've established. My speakers are at the end of a long wall in an approximately 10'X 15' room. It is carpeted. The walls and 8' ceiling are drywall. I have my system set up in the only practical location in the apartment. My integrated amp has 125 watts X 2 into 8 ohms, and I'm using Kimber PBR interconnects and 8TC cables (single wire). I estimate I have 15-20 hours on my new speakers, which are about 5.5' apart. Do I need to give them more time? If anyone has checked out myspeakersetup.com, I'd be interested in your opinion of it. I will not be sending the T1's back, nor am I eager to invest in room treatments. Any thoughts?

Sorry, I don't know how to add photos. My amp is a Music Hall a70.2, and my CD player a Tascam CD200. The speakers are 17" off the wall (as measured to the rear). They are 5' apart, center to center, and the right speaker is 15" off the right wall (measured to center). I am trying a 30° toe-in to reduce side wall reflections, and it seems to help. I have very little room with which to work.

[creimes]

Saying you are not willing to invest in treatments is a bad start, I found taming room reflections to help the most in my system, being able to mostly hear the speakers and not the sound bouncing off walls, ceilings and or floors is one of the best ways to help clean the air sort of speaking to hear whats coming from the speaker and not the speaker/wall/ceiling, reflections will totally mud up the sound IMO

For an example watch this video

[garbulky]

Adding some photos would be a great way for us to advice you.
So other than room treatment which I completely agree....it clears up the treble for me and the mids, I suggest basically working on speaker placement.
IT depends on what you find is the best, but most importantly you have to experiment. If you put the speakers down where it looked the best and made a few small adjustments - about five minutes...then most likely you have not placed the speakers right.
It takes a long time to get JUST the right speaker placement (AND TOE IN matters!!!) but getting it right is like you've made a large expensive upgrade.
So I find how far away each speaker is from the other helps a lot. Toe in - depending on how much makes a large difference in the treble. Sometimes it can be too much treble or too little.
Another thing is obstructions. You want it to have less. For instance if you have something between the speaker and you ...like say a cofee table, a side couch blocking one speaker then that affects things. If the speaker is BEHIND the plane of the equipment rack or tv that is in the middle between them, that can block things sounding right. Distance from the rear wall also makes a difference.

If one speaker is slightly more forward than the other that also makes a difference.

Room treatments don't have to be crazy looking or ridiculously labor intensive.. For instance you can get one and put it on the wall behind you at head level. That makes some difference. There are aesthetic friendly treatments like ones that come looking like paintings etc.

For instance here's the ones I use
www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24-x-48-x-2--1001.html
Some have better luck with the four inch versions, I haven't. But that doesn't mean it won't work for you.
Etc.
Good luck to you. Room treatments give you the most difference for the money.

[Wideawake]

Do you have the flexibility to move the speakers further away from the rear and side walls? The T1 is rear ported and my guess is that the bass is getting smeared from reflections off of the rear and side walls. That is likely the cause of the muddled midrange that you're experiencing.

While you might be reluctant to try room treatments, do you have bookshelves or furniture in the room that might ameliorate reflections in the midrange or HF frequencies?

Pics will really help. Not so difficult to figure out how to post pics. Please try.

[garbulky]

What you can do is click reply and then click "add attachment" on the top right of the screen to put in a picture. Make sure to show what you see from the couch. If possible include the couch in the picture.

[miata57]

Welcome Whafrat

I too have a pair of T1s. In my case the treble is a little bright, however my listening room is mostly hardwood floors and very little carpet. I do not have room treatments (maybe some day)
It took me awhile to get used to the sound of the T1s, around 2 weeks, but now when I switch back to my old speakers I realize they are just not as revealing.
I think it is safe to say it is not the speakers that are lacking HF. As already mentioned, room placement and toe-in are so sensitive with the T1 setup. Stick with it, I think you will soon love the T1s
Howie

[craigl59]

Sept 21, 2016 12:04:28 GMT -5 creimes said:

Saying you are not willing to invest in treatments is a bad start, I found taming room reflections to help the most in my system, being able to mostly hear the speakers and not the sound bouncing off walls, ceilings and or floors is one of the best ways to help clean the air sort of speaking to hear whats coming from the speaker and not the speaker/wall/ceiling, reflections will totally mud up the sound IMO

For an example watch this video

[craigl59]

creimes:
Your video is excellent.
Have found in damping music rooms and studios that if you kill the reflection in one direction that is sufficient. So, imagine the sound bouncing back and forth around the room and treat the walls so it can bounce only once. The corner bass traps are essential but not so sure this is the problem Wharfrat is describing.
Wharfrat:
Can you expand on your description of crash cymbals sounding muddy? Does this mean "unclear?" Would second Miata57's comment that the T1s themselves are particularly crisp and clean. This suggests something dramatic is going on in your room or equipment feed.
Here is another link to a room treatment company that I find similar to Emotiva -- fine products at very modest cost:
www.nextacoustics.com/
Good luck, Wharfrat and I second your welcome to the site.

[wharfrat]

Many thanks to craigl59 and all of you for your rapid and thoughtful responses. I may have overstated my angst. I am not dissatisfied with my T1's. They're incredible. And the folks at Emotiva.com could not be better.

I don't have a computer and my "smart" phone won't let me attach a photo. I know there may be a way, but I believe I got the answer(s) I needed. It is clear I'm going to have to deal with the room acoustics. I don't wish to beat this subject to death. Rock on, everyone, and take care.