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Post by jkbyrnes on Nov 5, 2016 0:38:58 GMT -5
Hi all, new to the boards. Planning a new 2 channel audio system. Have read great reviews of the Emotiva Gear. My question is specifically about the SA 250 Stealth. I know it has been discontinued, but I am curious if there any plans to bring out a line with the aesthetics of the SA 250? As the system will be a center piece of my room, aesthetics play a part in the final decision. Not to put down the XPA gen 3, I just prefer the SA 250 look. I am very close to pulling the trigger on one from Amazon, but as my preference is matching components when possible, I wondered if there was any chance for a full range SA series? To me it is every bit as attractive as the new Cambridge Audio Azur line, and the price and performance , from what I have read, are unmatched at its price point. Thanks in advance.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 5, 2016 0:51:39 GMT -5
No clear idea, but I have a feeling that that's it for the stealth line. It was a limited run in the first place. Now if you want matching....and you like nice sound.... XPA-1 gen 2 + DC-1. I am really liking that combo. Run in class A mode gives it that extra something that tips it in to the very good category. Only con the XPA-1 gen 2 is $$.
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Post by jkbyrnes on Nov 5, 2016 1:05:03 GMT -5
My current plan would be SA 250, CA Azur 851N,Tekton Design speakers (Either Enzo (if they will do 4 ohm version, or Double Impact). After the new year I would add the XSP-1 and ERC-3 CD player.
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Post by SteveB on Nov 5, 2016 8:51:58 GMT -5
I bought my SA-250 when they first came out and haven't looked back! I owned a UPA2, pair of UPA1's, XPA5(Gen 1) and XPA2(Gen 1). The SA-250 is in a whole different league than those other amps. I had it paired with an XSP-1 (gen 1) and an ERC-1, all connected with XLR cables, and it sounded fantastic! The XSP-1 gen2 and ERC-3 are supposed to sound even better. I can't imagine you being disappointed with that set up. I've never heard XPA-1's or the new XPA gen 3's so I can't say how the 250 would compare. I can say, I have no plans of replacing my SA-250 anytime soon.
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Post by jkbyrnes on Nov 5, 2016 10:49:40 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply, sounds like a GREAT setup.
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Post by leonski on Nov 6, 2016 16:57:33 GMT -5
I would worry LESS about 'matching aestetics' than how it SOUNDS?
Gonna spend a lot of time Looking at it or Listening to it?
Assembling a system by look is futile. Many experienced system builders START with the Source. 'Source First' is the motto.
Have you begun auditioning ANYTHING yet? The Tekton Speakers you mention (double impact) are over 98db sensitive. This means 100 4ohm watts will get you EVICTED.
How large a room? Listening habits? Neighbors? (thinking apartment) Any budget for additional dedicated electrical circuits?
I think the SA250 was a high point for EMO. Too bad the average EMO purchaser thought it was too expensive. I briefly considered a PAIR of 'em to biamp my very low sensitivity Panel speakers in a largish room.
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Post by jkbyrnes on Nov 7, 2016 19:51:41 GMT -5
Leonski, I appreciate your point, but as this is my scratch, aesthetics are important. I have gone to several specialty stores, I have not found one yet that had any of the products I was specially looking at. As I own a relatively nice and large HOUSE, with a large listening space picked out, the ability to run them LOUD is a plus, not a minus. Listening habits, I want to be able to crank up the stereo loud enough that I can crank a 465 Watt tube head into a 4x12 cabinet and play along with my favorite albums And at other times, relax with some classical.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 7, 2016 20:57:14 GMT -5
I'd be surprised to see any more Emotiva gear with the SA-250 aesthetics, but if you're ok mixing X series and the SA, then your plan sounds good. I appreciate aesthetics too, but the matching G3 would be more up my alley, maybe with the upcoming balanced blades (though more power than you need). Get what you like, your choices are sound.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 7, 2016 21:07:06 GMT -5
Well you're not going to get that volume level unless you go for the very large Tektons - bigger than Pendragons. If you are looking for genuinely loud sound with decent quality, there is a company that does this - huge SPLs. I just forgot what it was called. Rather industrial looks though. (Not Klipsch). It looks like budget is not a large consideration.
Here a setup I would prefer what I would do - XPA-1 gen 2, Schiit Gungnir, Audio GD Master one. Couple that with two Powersound audio S15 and your choice of speakers. Use any cheap DVD player + your Tekton Enzo's. This allows you fully balanced sound, an outstanding multibit dac, and excellent subwoofers giving you true full range sound and the ability to really shake things. Want to go a bit cheaper - DC-1 to XPA-1 gen 2 (save about 2k by ditching the Gungnir and Audio GD Master ONe). Weakness - doesn't have quite the seamlessness of the Camrbidge Azure for UI. (I use a PC, but I doubt you'll want to).
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Post by jkbyrnes on Nov 7, 2016 21:19:23 GMT -5
Appreciate the advice man! One thing, besides the aforementioned look, coming from my background in playing music (been playing bass for 33 years), I have a definite fondness for torroidal transformers. Yes, as long as the power supply is clean, there is very little difference, BUT,I swear I can detect a difference., at least in Musical Instrument Amplifiers (I play Mesa Boogie if anyone cares). I love my Mesa Strategy 8:88, BUT,my Marshall VBA 400, with it's big old honking torroidal driving those bottles, had just another level of depth to it. Hard to describe, not even sure I can quantify the difference, but I definitely noticed it.
There is still a SA 250 on Amazon, might just have to pull the trigger. Since initially I will not have an analog preamp, but will be driving everything through a streaming network player/dac, and an external hard drive with all my cd's ripped to max audio resolution, I can be in for about 6k with the Tekton Double Impact's, SA 250 and Azur 851N. I thought about the PS audio Direct Stream, but it costs as much as the 3 components above combined. The Azur has gotten pretty good reviews. The other item I thought about the the Sony HAP-Z1ES, but I can only find it in Silver,
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Post by foggy1956 on Nov 7, 2016 21:30:17 GMT -5
If you go with the Enzo's, I have the matching sub and am very happy with it.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 7, 2016 21:38:26 GMT -5
Yeah well the all that gear i listed comes with torroids of some form. Most of them come with dual torroids! The PS Audio direct stream is actually a pretty nice idea imo.
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Post by leonski on Nov 7, 2016 22:19:21 GMT -5
Whatever you end up with, PLAN for an additional circuit or more, from the SAME side of the box. But before you go off on BIG / Expensive speakers, you need to LISTEN to stuff. I generally do NOT advise on the 'buy this' level. It is all pretty individual and NOBODY hears how or what YOU hear. And apparently you value LOUD of most everything else, so you might want LOUD speakers? If I was to be CYNICAL, I'd advise going out and getting some Cerwin Vega. Play loud and a reputation for durability. Ever heard anything with a SWITCHING PS? NO huge 'iron'. Measurements from Stereophiles test of the ENZO XL The red flag for me is the MUCH lower than advertised sensitivity meaning you need more power for any give output level. Also, given the dispersion characteristics, you MIGHT not like these in a large room where the baffle interaction with the tweeter 'narrows' fhe field. Stereophile figures a reasonable TUBE amp would work, given the low reactance of this speaker. LISTEN FIRST and IN HOME if possible. www.stereophile.com/content/tekton-design-enzo-xl-loudspeaker-measurements#te0SDiIL69CJ46yB.97
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Nov 7, 2016 22:42:41 GMT -5
Well you're not going to get that volume level unless you go for the very large Tektons - bigger than Pendragons. If you are looking for genuinely loud sound with decent quality, there is a company that does this - huge SPLs. I just forgot what it was called. Rather industrial looks though. (Not Klipsch). It looks like budget is not a large consideration. Here a setup I would prefer what I would do - XPA-1 gen 2, Schiit Gungnir, Audio GD Master one. Couple that with two Powersound audio S15 and your choice of speakers. Use any cheap DVD player + your Tekton Enzo's. This allows you fully balanced sound, an outstanding multibit dac, and excellent subwoofers giving you true full range sound and the ability to really shake things. Want to go a bit cheaper - DC-1 to XPA-1 gen 2 (save about 2k by ditching the Gungnir and Audio GD Master ONe). Weakness - doesn't have quite the seamlessness of the Camrbidge Azure for UI. (I use a PC, but I doubt you'll want to). How much of this stuff have you heard in your set up? If you haven't heard it, how can you recommend it?
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Post by jkbyrnes on Nov 7, 2016 23:33:13 GMT -5
Nice thing about the Tektons, 60 day return policy. Yes I have heard switching power supplies, I prefer torroidal. In regards to the Enzo's, the lack of the mid driver caused me to change to the Double Impact's, the review seems to reinforce that point.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 8, 2016 0:13:18 GMT -5
Well you're not going to get that volume level unless you go for the very large Tektons - bigger than Pendragons. If you are looking for genuinely loud sound with decent quality, there is a company that does this - huge SPLs. I just forgot what it was called. Rather industrial looks though. (Not Klipsch). It looks like budget is not a large consideration. Here a setup I would prefer what I would do - XPA-1 gen 2, Schiit Gungnir, Audio GD Master one. Couple that with two Powersound audio S15 and your choice of speakers. Use any cheap DVD player + your Tekton Enzo's. This allows you fully balanced sound, an outstanding multibit dac, and excellent subwoofers giving you true full range sound and the ability to really shake things. Want to go a bit cheaper - DC-1 to XPA-1 gen 2 (save about 2k by ditching the Gungnir and Audio GD Master ONe). Weakness - doesn't have quite the seamlessness of the Camrbidge Azure for UI. (I use a PC, but I doubt you'll want to). How much of this stuff have you heard in your set up? If you haven't heard it, how can you recommend it? Haven't we had this discussion before? You may be surprised to know that my experience with this gear is more than you think A little bit more time, a bit more fun has been had listening to some neat stuff. I think what Stiehll is trying to get at is.... as always, my reccomendations are subjective and somewhat prone to hyperbole/excitement. Best consumed with a grain of salt.
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Post by leonski on Nov 8, 2016 0:25:26 GMT -5
You trust reviews? Why? What do you know about the Reviewer or WHAT he or she values in a presentation? Do you know how to evaluate the DATA part of the Stereophile test report? The TEXT of that section is equally important and you might be able to make up for that SLIGHT dip in midrange thru careful setup. The switchers you heard? In 'pro' stuff like some Beheringer or Crown? Other amps from the likes of Hypex and B&O might not have the 'sound' you apparently don't like. But ARE 'D' amps with either a switcher or linear PS. Don't forget that Multi-Way speakers come with many compromises BUILT IN as a function of getting various drivers to work together. 4-way speakers have the most issues. Crossover design HAS come a long way but your still up against the wall of physics Since you seem to value 'loud', I'd look at PRO monitors with integrated amps. I'm linking the JBL, NOT as a recommendation but rather as a category to consider. Many powered monitors out there. Some are VERY flexible, indeed. Your local Guitar Center might have something to listen to? www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/3-series
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Post by jkbyrnes on Nov 8, 2016 0:58:28 GMT -5
Behringer? LOL really? That stuff is garbage (My current bass rig is a Mesa Engineering Strategy 8:88, into a Mesa Powerhouse 4x12). After 33 years of playing music, I have a fair idea of what I am looking for sound wise. Although I like loud, the reality is my stuff is rarely dimed. I do not like class D amps as a general rule (see again my preference for torroidal transformers) As to whether or not I trust reviews, only in as much as they are a starting point, much like this (and for that matter most all boards) forum.
I am making an assumption here, but I am hoping that your responses are crafted to raise well meaning questions about whether I have thought out my INITIAL gear plans. The answer would be an emphatic yes. Since you have taken the time to answer my questions, I can only assume you are offering well meaning questioning.
Compromises? A given, as I am not dropping my annual income on an audio system, a sub 10K 2 channel hi fi system is going to contain some compromises. The fact of the matter is I am looking for a powerful 2 channel home audio system to play everything from Bach Cello Suites, to Iron Maiden. Since I cannot demo many of the pieces I would like to (CA Azur Series (851W, N and E), Emotiva SA 250, XMC-1, XPA-2, ERC-3, Tekton Design Double Impact) I can do as much research as possible and draw my own conclusions. Nice thing is when I pull the trigger, all pieces have 60 day return policy, so I have at least a modicum of peace of mind.
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Post by leonski on Nov 8, 2016 3:02:18 GMT -5
Behringer makes a BIG line of stuff for 'professional' use.
'D' amps from B&O are almost ALL switchers, and on board, at that. Some modules are designed to take power from OTHER modules, which is good for powered speakers and such. HYPEX, which makes the Highly Regarded NCore amps has a fine seletion of seperate switchers. Formerly, they sold Toroids.
Do you like toroids in the OUTPUT section of your tube stuff? or Just the PS?
40 years ago, give or take, I LIVED with a bunch of musicians. The 'kid' had a Rickenbacker Stack you couldn't see over. 'The Cowboy' had some beautiful Acoustic stuff and for an amp he had a Tweed Twin or maybe it was a Peevy Vintage? But his guitar for THAT rig was a Gibson Hollow Body Electric, single cutaway, IIRC. Nice. I had a fine selection of guys come thru after hours who would do the play in front of the stereo thing. One in particular, a Blues Harp Player was AMAZING. Almost as good as Paul Butterfield.
People that tell you what to buy are telling you what THEY LIKE. I could tell you a better amp for you might be a Parasound A21. You've got no stereo reference. Putting a system together is NOT specs and NOT looks. It is SOUND. If you want LOOKS, get yourself those Tektron Speakers, and an MC275 McIntosh amp and maybe a C52 Preamp. People LOVE that Blue Display thing they have going on.
Don't forget to get an Electrician out and drop a couple NEW 20 amp lines to your new stereo.
Yes, I'm trying to get you to EXAMINE what you want and WHY. What do you VALUE in a music presentation? How'd you settle on the CA851N? Are you going to have another source? Ever read a BAD review?
My Opinion would be, that since you are going to spend maybe 5000$ PLUS, you'd be well served getting somewhere and LISTEN to stuff. Find some real brick and morter stores and make a few appointments for listening. You know, sometimes it takes LONGER to 'not' like something than 30 or 60 days. I had a CA840 CD Player. Really top of the line from CA. Didn't work out and cost me a bundle.
Have fun. That's the most important thing. Just don't try to assemble a system 'online'. I appreciate your music background but in my experience, Musicians make the WORST stereo buyers. Never have figured out WHY.
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Nov 8, 2016 8:16:18 GMT -5
Hi all, new to the boards. Planning a new 2 channel audio system. Have read great reviews of the Emotiva Gear. My question is specifically about the SA 250 Stealth. I know it has been discontinued, but I am curious if there any plans to bring out a line with the aesthetics of the SA 250? As the system will be a center piece of my room, aesthetics play a part in the final decision. Not to put down the XPA gen 3, I just prefer the SA 250 look. I am very close to pulling the trigger on one from Amazon, but as my preference is matching components when possible, I wondered if there was any chance for a full range SA series? To me it is every bit as attractive as the new Cambridge Audio Azur line, and the price and performance , from what I have read, are unmatched at its price point. Thanks in advance. At present we do not have anything in the works with that kind of cosmetics. That was a killer look though. Lonnie
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