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Post by sahmen on Dec 22, 2016 15:35:28 GMT -5
I usually get room-size impressions and cues through various reverb and echo effects (as well as subterranean rumble effects, although the strength of these may be also headphones dependent during headphones listening) on the track, and the yggy conveys those very well, if those effects are what you're referring to. Incidentally, those effects are not absent from the DC-1 either, except that they seem stronger and more vivid in the Yggy.
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 22, 2016 15:39:05 GMT -5
When I use my Bimby, I realized that the piano player's shoe wasn't tied. I know which musicians in the orchestra aren't wearing jammies I see you edited your original post. Did you at first write, underwear?
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Post by sahmen on Dec 22, 2016 15:54:07 GMT -5
And a more generic question, if I may... The Schiit high-end DACs are not DAC/preamps - meaning you need some volume attenuation between the DAC and the power amp (probably a preamplifier). Assuming that remote volume control is a necessity, what preamps do all of you use to listen to your Schiit DACs? I know that garbulky 's using his Emotiva Stealth DC-1 as a preamp. What other (remote) preamplifiers have the rest of you found to be Schiit-friendly? With the Yggy, I use the Violectric V281, as an amp for headphone listening, and as a sort of "pass-through" pre-amp hooked up to the XMC-1, and that enables me also to use the Yggy for 2-channel speaker listening using my main HT front speakers. The Violectric V281 can power external speakers on its own, if need be, so the XMC-1 is not strictly necessary in the chain. The involvement of the XMC-1 enables me to use the same front speakers for both 2/2.1-channel and 5.1/7.1 channel service, and do so quite seamlessly.
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 22, 2016 15:57:28 GMT -5
Thanks, sahmen - I'm not familiar with the Violectric products, but I'll check them out. Having done so, I see that they lack remote control volume, so they'll not be for me.
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Post by sahmen on Dec 22, 2016 16:14:40 GMT -5
Actually, the V281 comes with 2 optional modes of remote control functions, that need to be custom ordered. One is called simply "remote control," and the other (more expensive) one is "relay remote control." I use the first one. They can also come with an optional in-built DAC, which also needs to be custom ordered, but I passed on that as I prefer other standalone DAC options. I am just indicating that the V281 can be both flexible and versatile that way.
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 22, 2016 16:20:13 GMT -5
Thanks - that wasn't immediately obvious from their product page (or maybe I just missed it).
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Post by garbulky on Dec 22, 2016 16:22:15 GMT -5
Thanks, sahmen - I'm not familiar with the Violectric products, but I'll check them out. Having done so, I see that they lack remote control volume, so they'll not be for me. Schiit has hinted that they are warming up to the idea of remote controls. Their new products are coming with remotes. So I am guessing the next generation of Ygdrassils will have a remote.
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 22, 2016 16:29:37 GMT -5
Thanks, sahmen - I'm not familiar with the Violectric products, but I'll check them out. Having done so, I see that they lack remote control volume, so they'll not be for me. Schiit has hinted that they are warming up to the idea of remote controls. Their new products are coming with remotes. So I am guessing the next generation of Ygdrassils will have a remote. The Saga preamp has a remote but then that's because it has a volume control. The remote itself is really small and cheap looking and feeling, but Jason said there is no point in making people pay extra for some fancy remote. His goal is something functional. So I don't know if they are warmed up to the idea of a remote for a multiple input DAC. It may be just for preamps intended for stereo speaker listening. From firsthand experience, the remote IS cheap and small. But it works. One of those Emo blackjack remotes would literally crush it.
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Post by gld3gld3 on Dec 22, 2016 16:46:21 GMT -5
Great review Garbulky.
My immediate reaction...I'm keeping my DC-1! I certainly won't rush to get a multibit dac, though I may end up there at some point anyways. Good reproduction of acoustic instruments is really one of the things that delights me in music. Second would be a tie between vocals (female vocal reproduction in particular) and soundstage width/depth. You are not the first person to say that these multibit DACs excel at reproducing acoustic instruments, so I may have to try one someday.
Too bad you couldn't try it balanced. Maybe there would have been a significant difference?
On the other hand, if a Mimby+Saga combo beats the DC-1 in SQ, I might go the multibit rout sooner! But you say the preamp in the DC-1 is very transparent...GAAAHHH! I am going to have to try before I buy...
I should just upgrade my amp first. Vidar?
Many things to ponder.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 22, 2016 16:56:05 GMT -5
Interesting impressions. How long did you let it warm up before testing? Mine took three hours to reach thermal stability. Now I follow Mike Moffat's recommendation and never turn any of my multibit DACs off. Gungnir MB is my preferred headphone DAC right now. The Yggdrasil will give you that last bit that you perceive as missing, and I prefer that as my DAC in my two loudspeaker systems. If the Yggy is better, then why would the Gungnir be your preferred headphone DAC? Or is it because you have one of each and the Gungnir is good enough for headphones? To my ears, the Yggy was just too detailed for my taste when using headphones. It was too "in your face." The Gumby has a very pleasing analog sound. To me, with my amp (Mjolnir 2) my tubes (Gold Lions) and my headphones (Ether C.) In the 2-channel setup the detail of the Yggy makes things come alive.
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Dec 22, 2016 16:59:41 GMT -5
Schiit has hinted that they are warming up to the idea of remote controls. Their new products are coming with remotes. So I am guessing the next generation of Ygdrassils will have a remote. The Saga preamp has a remote but then that's because it has a volume control. The remote itself is really small and cheap looking and feeling, but Jason said there is no point in making people pay extra for some fancy remote. His goal is something functional. So I don't know if they are warmed up to the idea of a remote for a multiple input DAC. It may be just for preamps intended for stereo speaker listening. From firsthand experience, the remote IS cheap and small. But it works. One of those Emo blackjack remotes would literally crush it. My friend, what you're really trying to say is, Emotiva makes a Killer remote!!
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 22, 2016 17:00:57 GMT -5
Interesting impressions. How long did you let it warm up before testing? Mine took three hours to reach thermal stability. Now I follow Mike Moffat's recommendation and never turn any of my multibit DACs off. Gungnir MB is my preferred headphone DAC right now. The Yggdrasil will give you that last bit that you perceive as missing, and I prefer that as my DAC in my two loudspeaker systems. There was a noticeable difference in sound from cold to say a day or two. Then there were very small very slow incremental improvements and I would say for everything to even out would for me have been about a week. Interestingly the differences started out in the treble and moved down in to the mid range very slowly. When it got to the mid range it warmed up the sound a bit making it sound closer to the DC-1 in terms of sound - though it still sounds different in the way it does sound. How does the Yggy do with portraying the size of the room in the soundstage? With the DC-1 in balanced mode I am able to hear approximately the size of the room/hall. Does the Yggy do that? I'm not saying the gungnir CAN'T do it as I haven't heard it in balanced mode but the single ended mode that was the difference I noticed in terms of detail. The performance improvements over time mirrors my experience as well. The Yggdrasil produces soundstage to die for, IMO. Super realistic. But more than that is the incredible detail and depth f the music without being overly dry and analytical sounding. It is without a doubt the most satisfying DAC I have ever used. I am feeding it an AES signal from a CD transport and balanced to the preamp in the 2-channel system, and a USB input from a music player then single ended to the preamp in the HT. The 2-channel setup sounds superb, the HT setup is used for background music so the Yggy here is probably overkill.
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Post by hosko on Dec 22, 2016 17:08:33 GMT -5
Is break in really just the listener getting use to the equipment. When you buy a new bigger tv it seems so much bigger than the old one. Two weeks later and its just your tv, the old one looks small. The tv hasnt changed just your perception.
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 22, 2016 17:09:49 GMT -5
The Saga preamp has a remote but then that's because it has a volume control. The remote itself is really small and cheap looking and feeling, but Jason said there is no point in making people pay extra for some fancy remote. His goal is something functional. So I don't know if they are warmed up to the idea of a remote for a multiple input DAC. It may be just for preamps intended for stereo speaker listening. From firsthand experience, the remote IS cheap and small. But it works. One of those Emo blackjack remotes would literally crush it. My friend, what you're really trying to say is, Emotiva makes a Killer remote!!
View AttachmentFiguratively and quite possibly literally!
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Post by garbulky on Dec 22, 2016 17:23:40 GMT -5
My friend, what you're really trying to say is, Emotiva makes a Killer remote!!
View AttachmentFiguratively and quite possibly literally! I use mine for home defense
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Post by sahmen on Dec 22, 2016 17:40:36 GMT -5
Is break in really just the listener getting use to the equipment. When you buy a new bigger tv it seems so much bigger than the old one. Two weeks later and its just your tv, the old one looks small. The tv hasnt changed just your perception. I get this comparison which essentially proves the relativity of perceived values. When it comes to the Yggy, however, the requirement of keeping it on so that it can retain a certain optimal "thermal equilibrium" which affects the quality of playback is real, and the improvement that comes with that achieved thermal equilibrium is not merely psychoacoustic. This is why I like to separate requirements for "thermal equilibrium" from those of "burn in" effects. an expression which appears to trigger complications in understanding which are not always necessary, in my view.
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Post by fr8dog3510 on Dec 23, 2016 0:43:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the review! I recently replaced my DC-1 with a Schiit Saga and Mimby. To my ears this combo sounds better than the DC-1. I could have lived with the DC-1 for a long time, but wanted to get some Schiit. I had my eye on a Bifrost a couple of years ago, but purchased the DC-1. I'll probably end up with the Schiit Vidar, Freya and Gumby. Just getting my feet wet with the gear from Schiit. The company history and made in the USA were also factors. Nice! Tell me more about the Saga. Do you find it transparent? What differences between the MIMBY and SAGA vs DC-1 do you notice? For me the differences were the tone and the general size of the sound.
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Post by fr8dog3510 on Dec 23, 2016 1:07:22 GMT -5
It's a pretty simple, well built piece of gear. Runs either in hybrid tube or passive mode. Doesn't sound tubey. The remote is funky. I don't mind it. When I opened up the box I didn't know what it was at first. More gain using the tube. In passive mode it seems a little laid back. To me it sounds transparent. The difference to me is the DC-1 sounds very accurate. The Saga sounds accurate and like it has more depth. To me like a little tube influence, but not bloated or rolled off. Everything just sounds more like it should. Not sure if that makes sense. It's a different sound. My ears are used to it. I liked the DC-1. Great value. Just wanted to try something different. Currently running it with a squeezebox touch and a pair of Airmotiv 6 and a rythmik F12 sub. The main set up is a Class D Audio amp and a pair of MMG's. Modding the MMG's so they're out for now. The new combo sounds great with the Maggies. Will probably upgrade to the .7 or 1.7.
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Post by hosko on Dec 23, 2016 7:54:16 GMT -5
Is break in really just the listener getting use to the equipment. When you buy a new bigger tv it seems so much bigger than the old one. Two weeks later and its just your tv, the old one looks small. The tv hasnt changed just your perception. I get this comparison which essentially proves the relativity of perceived values. When it comes to the Yggy, however, the requirement of keeping it on so that it can retain a certain optimal "thermal equilibrium" which affects the quality of playback is real, and the improvement that comes with that achieved thermal equilibrium is not merely psychoacoustic. This is why I like to separate requirements for "thermal equilibrium" from those of "burn in" effects. an expression which appears to trigger complications in understanding which are not always necessary, in my view. Getting a piece of equipment to its correct thermal envelope isn't breaking it in though. Thats not what I was talking about.
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Post by sahmen on Dec 23, 2016 8:18:14 GMT -5
I get this comparison which essentially proves the relativity of perceived values. When it comes to the Yggy, however, the requirement of keeping it on so that it can retain a certain optimal "thermal equilibrium" which affects the quality of playback is real, and the improvement that comes with that achieved thermal equilibrium is not merely psychoacoustic. This is why I like to separate requirements for "thermal equilibrium" from those of "burn in" effects. an expression which appears to trigger complications in understanding which are not always necessary, in my view. Getting a piece of equipment to its correct thermal envelope isn't breaking it in though. Thats not what I was talking about. I know you were interested in "break-in" (which some also refer to as "burn in"), and not talking about that thermal warm-up and stabilization, I wanted to point out, however, that the complicated warm up routines recommended for the yggy and gumby (and which the OP expresses his frustration about in the opening post) are precisely about this thermal warm up and stabilization, rather than "break-in" or "burn-in." Sorry for not making that clear enough in the earlier post.
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