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Post by ac2011 on Dec 22, 2016 8:44:04 GMT -5
I currently have 2 PowerSound Audio XS15SE subwoofers in my room (about 2800 cubic feet). Currently, I have one up front inside the right speaker, and the other is in the back right corner of the room, about 9 ft from MLP (maybe 2ft behind). I have been thinking about re-configuring and putting that unit up front on the left side. I have also considered adding a couple of smaller subs near-field to MLP - either side of my chair I have a coffee table which would be an ideal spot to put a subwoofer (at least that is what I think  ). Because I live in Canada and the exchange is so crap right now, adding more PSA subs is likely out of the question, unless I get a great sale, and even then, the shipping, duties and taxes are killer. Lately, I have been eyeing up offerings from SVS, for various reasons, not the least of which is that they have a Canadian distribution system. I was thinking about a couple of the SB-1000, a smallish 12" sealed offering. They also have the SB-2000, but there is a fair price difference there. They also have ported versions of both those models, but I guess my thinking was my current subs are sealed, so stay sealed? Or would ported be better for nearfield? Other comments/suggestions? |
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Post by fbczar on Dec 22, 2016 9:05:30 GMT -5
I currently have 2 PowerSound Audio XS15SE subwoofers in my room (about 2800 cubic feet). Currently, I have one up front inside the right speaker, and the other is in the back right corner of the room, about 9 ft from MLP (maybe 2ft behind). I have been thinking about re-configuring and putting that unit up front on the left side. I have also considered adding a couple of smaller subs near-field to MLP - either side of my chair I have a coffee table which would be an ideal spot to put a subwoofer (at least that is what I think ). Because I live in Canada and the exchange is so crap right now, adding more PSA subs is likely out of the question, unless I get a great sale, and even then, the shipping, duties and taxes are killer. Lately, I have been eyeing up offerings from SVS, for various reasons, not the least of which is that they have a Canadian distribution system. I was thinking about a couple of the SB-1000, a smallish 12" sealed offering. They also have the SB-2000, but there is a fair price difference there. They also have ported versions of both those models, but I guess my thinking was my current subs are sealed, so stay sealed? Or would ported be better for nearfield? Other comments/suggestions? I don't know the exact placement of your L&R front speakers, but If you have the space I would suggest putting both your power sound subs up front on the outside of each main speaker rather than the inside position you have now. If you do that you will gain some sound reinforcement from each wall. On the other hand, you could place both subs on the inside of each speaker, but position them so the subs are as close together as possible. This would take advantage of the co-location effect, much like stacking the subwoofers. If the inside placement would require the subs to be six feet or more apart, I would start with the outside placement. Either way you should have a more balanced sound than you have now and I think you can mitigate the loss of output the corner gives you, especially if you place the two subs close together (closer is better). Are you mainly concerned with music, movies or both? In my situation I was able to stack two subwoofers and place them to the outside of one of my main speakers. Even with a 100Hz crossover point I have no localization problems. I do not have the output I could get from a true corner placement with stacked subs, but I am very pleased with the result Are your main speakers sealed or ported? |
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Post by ac2011 on Dec 22, 2016 9:26:19 GMT -5
My front L/R would be about 8 feet apart, I think. There is a cabinet between them, which holds the center channel and has an electric fireplace and storage for movies. There is juuuuuust enough space between the cabinet and each speaker to fit the PSA sub on each side. I probably could put the subs on the outside of each speaker - there is enough space - I put the one on the inside partly due to the fact that on the outside on that side is encroaching on the kids play area. Until or unless this gets moved, I would probably keep it that way and put the other side inside as well for aesthetics.
My main speakers do have a rear port; they would currently be about 12 - 14" from the wall, putting their fronts in line with the front of the center, which as I noted is in the cabinet.
The system's main use is TV/movies, limited music.
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Post by fbczar on Dec 22, 2016 9:58:24 GMT -5
My front L/R would be about 8 feet apart, I think. There is a cabinet between them, which holds the center channel and has an electric fireplace and storage for movies. There is juuuuuust enough space between the cabinet and each speaker to fit the PSA sub on each side. I probably could put the subs on the outside of each speaker - there is enough space - I put the one on the inside partly due to the fact that on the outside on that side is encroaching on the kids play area. Until or unless this gets moved, I would probably keep it that way and put the other side inside as well for aesthetics. My main speakers do have a rear port; they would currently be about 12 - 14" from the wall, putting their fronts in line with the front of the center, which as I noted is in the cabinet. The system's main use is TV/movies, limited music. If I understand everything correctly, only one of your main speakers is near a side wall, right? If so, placing the two subs on the inside is your best bet. The subs are down-firing types and, again if I understand your room, this placement will put both subs very near the front wall of your room. This should give you good output. You will have no localization problems due to the new placement so I would experiment with a higher crossover point, say 100Hz. This would probably be a better match for your center and surrounds and would work well with the main speakers too. Also, since your mains are ported be sure to set your crossover slope to 24db if your processor has that feature. If your mains were sealed a setting of 12db would be best. I would recommend setting the levels of all your speakers at 75db and the two subs together at 83db. Then adjust the sub level according to your preference. |
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Post by ac2011 on Dec 22, 2016 10:08:31 GMT -5
The side walls would be about about 5 - 6 ft either side of the mains (there is a doorway with french doors leading to an adjoining room just to the left of the left front speaker).
I use a Yamaha RX-A3040 receiver, so don't think I have the ability to set the crossover slope as you suggest. I think my crossover is set to 80 in the Yamaha settings. I have the Anti-mode which otherwise does the subwoofer "optimization" for me.
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Post by fbczar on Dec 22, 2016 10:27:14 GMT -5
The side walls would be about about 5 - 6 ft either side of the mains (there is a doorway with french doors leading to an adjoining room just to the left of the left front speaker). I use a Yamaha RX-A3040 receiver, so don't think I have the ability to set the crossover slope as you suggest. I think my crossover is set to 80 in the Yamaha settings. I have the Anti-mode which otherwise does the subwoofer "optimization" for me. The anti-mode is a definite advantage. Given the doorway, I would definitely try to place the subs inside each of the main speakers. The fact the subs are down-firing is an advantage. If you have carpet, you might consider raising the subs a few inches. Do you have real corners in the back of your room without any doorways or such? If so you could try putting one subwoofer in each back corner, or you could stack both subwoofers in one back corner. With one sub in each corner the output would be enhanced, the distance to the MLP would be closer, which increases the perceived output, and the balance of the system would be better than it is now. Stacking the subs in one corner would yield the most output, but the fact they are down-firing might be an issue unless you invert one sub so the top sub is upside down. Stacking also places one of the subs higher so it can have a positive effects in some rooms. The only concern with the stacked arrangement would be localization, but it is worth trying for all the advantages mentioned. Let me know how it sounds. |
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Post by ac2011 on Dec 22, 2016 10:38:06 GMT -5
Thanks. The right side back of the room, where one sub currently sits, is a real corner. The left side has the entrance to a stairway (leading from the basement up to the main floor), so putting a sub here is a no go. The wife definitely would not go for the look of the two stacked anywhere in the room, and with the kids, I would be somewhat afraid something bad would happen (7 and 4).
The room is carpeted over insulated sub-floor, over concrete; I have wondered whether it was a mistake getting downfiring subs - not sure how I would go about safely raising them in a way that would also look good.
Pretty sure I will move that 2nd sub to the front over the holidays while I have some time off; even after that, still curious about the possible effects/benefits of adding a couple of near-field subs.
Thanks for the tips and assistance.
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Post by goozoo on Dec 22, 2016 14:42:56 GMT -5
As far as I know there are no subs designed for near field use. The things to keep in mind with multiple subs are:
1) You will get the best and most accurate response if you are able to match subs (same model, mfg., etc)
2) You will need a DSP (e.g. miniDSP 2x4 balanced, or Behringer DEQ2496) to EQ the bass response in the room properly
3) Phase alignment and delay are critical in blending the sound
If you do go for the SVS(great subs BTW), then you can EQ them to blend with your PSAs and just turn down the gain while adjusting for the parameters mentioned above. You may also want to look at ELAC. They offer room EQ with the subs via a smartphone app. Best of luck.
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Post by leonski on Jan 4, 2017 14:24:22 GMT -5
I'll BET that ELAC is buying someone else's system for EQ. MiniDSP sounds like a good idea, but keep in mind that measuring say.....<300hz can be problematic in a REAL room. And while I admire the OP for listing the size of the room in CUBIC FEET, (best way to measure), the dimensions and more particularly the RATIO of dimensions are what govern some aspects of sub behavior and STANDING WAVES. I'd look up a room mode calculator just for GIGGLES and than find the Harmon Group White Paper on multiple sub setup. www.harman.com/sites/default/files/white-paper/12/11/2015%20-%2006%3A12/files/multsubs.pdf |
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Post by MusicHead on Jan 4, 2017 14:37:46 GMT -5
Provided that shipping does not cost you an arm and a leg, check also Rythmik. They have models with Parametric EQ and very flexible bass extension management, like the F12: rythmikaudio.com/F12_features.html |
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Post by LuisV on Jan 4, 2017 14:43:06 GMT -5
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). Because I live in Canada and the exchange is so crap right now, adding more PSA subs is likely out of the question, unless I get a great sale, and even then, the shipping, duties and taxes are killer.
