UMC-200 Bitstream True-HD, Nvidia gfx

[aquvist]

Hi!

I tried setting up my UMC-200 for some bitstreaming with a Nvidia Gt710 gfx and Kodi.
I have some issues and wanted to check in here if there is something else to try before i try to do a reflash of the software.

When i have everything setup properly and i go to the HDMI output on my computer it says:
8 channels
16-bit
Freq: 44,1-192khz
Encoded formats: blank <--- this is where it should be True HD, DTS MA if im not misstaken.


Things i have tried:
3 different HDMI cables
Different HDMI inputs on the UMC, NOT using the ARC input on the TV if i do use the ARC input the UMC says EDID error.
Updating GFX drivers including HDMI sound
Load Defaults in the UMC-200
All CEC is turned off, doesn't work with it on either - both TV and the UMC
Different Soundcard ASUS HDAV 1.3 with HDMI 


Thing is, if i take the same HDMI cable straight from my TV and put it into my gfx it shows Dolby and DTS as supported encoded formats in the HDMI properties on the computer (supported by my LG UH770 tv).
So i assume the gfx works as it should.
If i plug it back into the UMC they disappear again, thats why i suspect there is something going wrong in the UMC *handshake*

Is all hope lost and i should wipe it? 

[petew]

Can you set your computer to output PCM instead of bitstream? I'm using some generic nvidia card and have no issues that way. I think KODI will decode hirez audio tracks and convert to bitstream PCM, but I may be mistaken.

Handshake is a royal PITA and HDMI is evil.

[Loop 7]

Mar 8, 2017 17:32:25 GMT -5 petew said:

Handshake is a royal PITA and HDMI is evil.

Truer words were never spoken.

I realize copy protection is critical but they've had a decade+ to make HDMI more user and manufacturer friendly.

[rbk123]

Not sure how your Kodi is set up but do you have:
- Audio output device set to "WASAPI: HDMI - UMC..."
- Passthrough output device set to "WASAPI: HDMI - UMC..."
- Number of channels set correctly?
- Enable Passthrough selected?
- all of the "DTS/Dolby/TrueHD/etc.. capable receivers selected?

That's all that's needed, with the key being the WASAPI for the UMC. Sometimes that WASAPI option goes away when confused and rebooting the PC or the UMC solves it (Here's where I'd get a 4k certified cable and same to the TV, even if your source isn't 4k). If you don't see it to select, even after reboots, something is wrong and I'd guess it's betweeen Kodi and your video card. Some setting in your video card that needs to be changed.

[millst]

It sounds like the problem is outside of Kodi as the OP indicated the Windows sound driver panel shows that the formats are unsupported.

From the information given, it seems like everything on the computer side is fine as it's detecting bitstream to the TV. For some reason, the UMC-200 and the computer aren't negotiating the EDID properly.

There's nothing wrong with letting the computer do the decoding. The one significant advantage of bitstreaming is Atmos support. Otherwise, decoding on the PC provides more flexibility and equal sound quality.

-tm

[aquvist]

Hi and thx for the replies!

If i use my ASUS Xonar HDAV 1.3 with SPDIF my UMC200 decodes and finds the correct audioformat with 0 issues (it lists Dolby, DTS DTS live under encoded formats), this soundcard also supports TrueHD from its HDMI passthrough and i get the same issues there as it doesnt list any encoded formats when connected. So i can sort of replicate the issue from 2 different soundcards.

As i mentioned, if i use the ARC (HDMI2 output) on my TV i do get EDID error in the UMC-200, if i use another HDMI without the ARC it reads LG TV so i assume the handshake is OK.

Using HDMI i can get it to play Multi Ch PCM so it works, just not the "correct" way I cant select TrueHD or DTS-MA in Kodi (audio will disappear if i do) i assume this is because the Encoded formats is not listed in the properties for my HDMI output.
I have tried every possible sound setting in KODI, believe me
Using SPDIF it works as expected and with passthrough activated - ofc not with the HD formats.


I think i will have a go at reflashing the firmware since it seems to have helped some ppl with similar issues.

[rbk123]

I'm curious what you mean by:
"I cant select TrueHD or DTS-MA in Kodi (audio will disappear if i do) i assume this is because the Encoded formats is not listed in the properties for my HDMI output."

In Kodi, you can't select the encoding you can only allow it's passing through. It's your source that will determine what the encoding is. i.e. if your file only has DD, it won't play TrueHD; or if your file has DTS-HD, it won't play TruHD. You're probably aware of this, but just in case. So I'm not sure what you mean by you can't "select" it, that once "selected" audio disappears.

Any chance you can post a Kodi screenshot in Expert Mode (of System->Audio)?

[aquvist]

Sure i can post that, later when im home Also will try to do a reflash if i have the time today.

I can use Passthrough for both WASAPI and DirectSound, but if i activate TrueHD or DTS-MA and tries to play a movie with that soundtrack the sound goes away until i turn the passthrough off. I would think if my HDMI output listed those formats in the Encoded Formats list it would work.
So far it seems to be working at its best when not using passthrough :/
Im Running the latest Kodi build.
Also a Picture of the GFX plugged straight into the TV, there you can see it lists DTS and Dolby - the 2 formats my TV supports. That box goes blank when i connected to the UMC-200

[vcautokid]

As long as DRM and copy protection schemes exist. Easy and reliable are not going to happen. Courtesy of the paranoid entertainment industry.

[bootman]

HDMI is a chain. If you suspect handshaking issues try forcing each connection to a common format vs setting everything up as auto and crossing your fingers.
Example: if your TV is 1080p force everything else to that.
Still no guaranty due to hdcp.
Another option is to get something that gives you a bit more control over EDID and the like.
But that would be an added cost to the system.

But as others have said there is no audible difference between PCM and bitstream once converted so you are not losing any sound quality.

Don't get me started on the whole bitstream and PCM debate. It is all marketing and we are paying double licences fees to hear what is in fact a PCM stream before decoding.

[rbk123]

Mar 13, 2017 5:54:57 GMT -5 aquvist said:

I can use Passthrough for both WASAPI and DirectSound, but if i activate TrueHD or DTS-MA and tries to play a movie with that soundtrack the sound goes away until i turn the passthrough off.

How are you "activating" TrueHD or DTS-MA? Stated that way, it sounds like you are doing something in addition to playing a movie with a TrueHD or DTS-MA soundtrack?

What kind of files are you playing that you believe have TrueHD or DTS-MA tracks in them?

[aquvist]

Mar 13, 2017 8:48:32 GMT -5 rbk123 said:

Mar 13, 2017 5:54:57 GMT -5 aquvist said:

I can use Passthrough for both WASAPI and DirectSound, but if i activate TrueHD or DTS-MA and tries to play a movie with that soundtrack the sound goes away until i turn the passthrough off.

How are you "activating" TrueHD or DTS-MA? Stated that way, it sounds like you are doing something in addition to playing a movie with a TrueHD or DTS-MA soundtrack?

What kind of files are you playing that you believe have TrueHD or DTS-MA tracks in them?

The HDCP handshake is "OK" in the Nvidia settings but i understand that this might not be correct anyway. 

The file im trying to play is a .mkv or i have tried several actually.
The movie has this information: 
Audio #1

ID : 2

Format : Atmos / TrueHD

Codec ID : A_TRUEHD

Bit rate mode : Variable

Maximum bit rate : 7 563 Kbps

Channel(s) : Object Based / 8 channels

Channel positions : Object Based / Front: L C R, Side: L R, Back: L R, LFE

Sampling rate : / 48.0 KHz

Frame rate : 1 200.000 fps (40 spf)

Compression mode : Lossless

(If i use SPDIF it plays DTS as supposed)


Did some more tests today and it does NOT work with WASAPI and passthrough at all, it does work with directsound on the other hand.
Picture settings:


This does not work at all, no sound in any movie with DD, DTS and so on:


This works and puts out Multi PCM 3/2


Also if i disable passthrough all together this also works with both WASAPI and DIRECTSOUND


As you can see the settings for my HDMI out does not have any Encoded formats supported, could anyone with a similar setup please check and see if they get all formats to show?
(Kodade format = Encoded formats)
(Kunde inte hitta några.. = Could not find any...)



Cheers

[rbk123]

A couple of things to try, but it appears you're running a different version of Kodi than I; same settings just a different look and feel, though:

- can you try an MKV file that ONLY has TrueHD or DTS-HD as it's only track? It appears your audio file above has multiple tracks and that can be a problem at times in Kodi.
- can you borrow someone's receiver (something mainstream like Denon/Onkyo/whomever) and see if it works/does not work with the receiver?
- does your motherboard have HDMI out? If so, can you try with the motherboard's graphics/audio capabilities (take out your Nvidia)?
- have you contacted Nvidia's technical support?

I'd also post on a Kodi forum and mention how WASAPI doesn't work for you as that is the one which should be working. Does DirectSound actually pass TrueHD/DTS-HD which is recognized by the UMC? I'm guessing it's downmixing that to DD/DTS as I don't think it can support TrueHD/DTS-HD.


Edit: I went back and re-read your earlier posts and just wanted to mention something concerning:
>Using SPDIF it works as expected and with passthrough activated - ofc not with the HD formats.

Note, SPDIF and Coax do NOT support DTS-HD or TrueHD as they don't have sufficient bandwidth. You can only get HD audio through HDMI.

[aquvist]

Hi!



Yes I know that spdif does not support HD audio, It was that I was trying to explain

I said it was working as it should when using spdif (play back dts if it doesn't support HD audio)

So all is well there!





and yes I have tried with the internal gfx HDMI with the same results, I even tried running HDMI from both the graphic cards via my Asus Xonar HDAV (gfx hdmi -> soundcard hdmi in -> soundcard hdmi out) with no success.



I have 2 other computers I'm gonna try using tomorrow and see if I get any of the encoded formats to show up at all when plugged into the umc-200. Why I think a refresh might work is because I read this thread: emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/36835/umc-200-dts





Ty for all replies so far!

Mar 13, 2017 16:42:58 GMT -5 rbk123 said:

A couple of things to try, but it appears you're running a different version of Kodi than I; same settings just a different look and feel, though:

- can you try an MKV file that ONLY has TrueHD or DTS-HD as it's only track? It appears your audio file above has multiple tracks and that can be a problem at times in Kodi.
- can you borrow someone's receiver (something mainstream like Denon/Onkyo/whomever) and see if it works/does not work with the receiver?
- does your motherboard have HDMI out? If so, can you try with the motherboard's graphics/audio capabilities (take out your Nvidia)?
- have you contacted Nvidia's technical support?

I'd also post on a Kodi forum and mention how WASAPI doesn't work for you as that is the one which should be working. Does DirectSound actually pass TrueHD/DTS-HD which is recognized by the UMC? I'm guessing it's downmixing that to DD/DTS as I don't think it can support TrueHD/DTS-HD.


Edit: I went back and re-read your earlier posts and just wanted to mention something concerning:
>Using SPDIF it works as expected and with passthrough activated - ofc not with the HD formats.

Note, SPDIF and Coax do NOT support DTS-HD or TrueHD as they don't have sufficient bandwidth. You can only get HD audio through HDMI.

[rbk123]

Interesting read.

If there's any way you can borrow someone's receiver and it works, you know for sure it's the UMC. Otherwise it appears it can't hurt to flash the firmware.
Of the HDMI cables you tried - are any of them 4k certified? That might help as well, but I'd try a non-UMC device first to confirm or eliminate the UMC.

[aquvist]

Mar 13, 2017 20:07:05 GMT -5 rbk123 said:

Interesting read.

If there's any way you can borrow someone's receiver and it works, you know for sure it's the UMC. Otherwise it appears it can't hurt to flash the firmware.
Of the HDMI cables you tried - are any of them 4k certified? That might help as well, but I'd try a non-UMC device first to confirm or eliminate the UMC.

Yup all of them are, i tripple checked before i connected anything
The TV i have is a LG 65UH770V if i havent mentioned it.

Tried a reflash of the latest firmware, still the same. I start to belive it is the UMC-200 that is the fault here.. As i mentioned before if i plug my computer straight into the TV it immediately finds the correct encoded format as is supported by the TV.
Gonna remove the Nvidia card and do a fresh install of the onboard AMD drivers instead.. ill try with another computer tomorrow if i remember to bring home more cables

[aquvist]

Ohhkee, removed the Nvidia GFX, removed all drivers. Did a fresh install of the onboard AMD gfx and boom.. nothing
I cant get any sound at all from the ATI gfx HDMI output, it knows its connected to the UMC-200 but seems like the handshake is completely off.. Tried turning all the CEC off, no encoded formats are supported with this gfx either.
Gonna try another computer today and also connect the AMD gfx straight into my TV and see if anything works..

Luckily my SPDIF works like a charm with passthrough..still

I might need to contact the support soon, i only fear its not gonna be easy to send it away since i live in Finland..

[rbk123]

Does no one else have a processor or receiver you could borrow? That would confirm it's the UMC (or not) right away.

[millst]

How is that different than plugging it into a TV? Which OP already did, confirming that the computer negotiates bitstream formats.

-tm

[rbk123]

Never worked with or am familiar with a TV that could process TrueHD/DTS-MA, so I don't know how similar or different it is compared to a processor. The TV won't be driving 5.1 or 7.1 speakers, how exactly is it processing Truehd? If it can take TrueHD, is it really negotiating TrueHD or the DD core (or DTS core)?

All things I don't know but I do know/trust like-devices, hence my suggestion.