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Post by ĂlTwo on Apr 6, 2017 11:58:09 GMT -5
I have to laugh, Dan's message reads as having only gotten 68 views, yet this thread has nearly 200.
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Post by Bonzo on Apr 6, 2017 12:09:39 GMT -5
This is in no way shape or form meant to criticize, but didn't Emotiva try the "no sales" thing before? Criticize all you want as far as I'm concerned. The answer is yes, this has been done before, and the way it was done last time was, at the very least, how should I say, um, well..... I can't think of a way to say it without getting all kinds of back lash. Oh well, the truth is what it is. The fact was they promised no more sales, so people believed them, moved on, and then taking them at their word, people innocently bought products at full price from around January through June that year. But then when July came along, they in fact had a sale (disguised as an XMC-1 celebration). They claimed it was a special sale and it was a one time thing. But alas, when the fall/winter came around, they went back on their word and in fact had their typical annual sale. And the next year followed suit. People who complained here were basically called idiots, because many thought as Dan did with his exact words, "who doesn't like a sale?," which missed the entire point of the problem, and was, in my eyes, an obvious attempt to just sweep things under the rug. Very politician like if you ask me. Now from what goozoo says (I haven't read Dan's post or podcast or where ever this new info came from yet - can someone point me in that direction?) they are going down this road again. Good for them. Really, if they can get out of the annual sales mold and it helps them stay profitable for good long time, that's awesome for them. Not as good for us in terms of dollars spent, but if it helps keep Emotiva products available, that's good for us in the long term. But, I for one will believe it when I see it. And when (not if) Dan changes his mind for the umpteenth time, and again has that annual sale in the future, don't say I didn't tell you so.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 6, 2017 12:20:12 GMT -5
The problem with trying to stay with a no sales model is that sales generate more sales even if the profit margin is lower. People get excited with a sale and buy things they normally think twice about.
So, when sales are slow, having a sale moves more product.
It should be interesting to see how this goes.
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Post by Bonzo on Apr 6, 2017 12:22:21 GMT -5
Okay, I have now read his message.
I respect the message, and it's intent, and Dan's feelings on the subject. Good for him, and good for Emotiva. I actually for one like the idea of no sales, just the lowest prices all the time.
But wow does this message give me the feeling of Deja vu. Big time.
Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it. And anyone who says I don't have the right to feel this way (especially when based on Emotiva's past history on such things) has been drinking way too much blue kool-aid.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 6, 2017 12:30:24 GMT -5
This does work in favor of the UFL. We won't ever see the crossed out price to calculate the 25% from.
Either way it's small difference in the grand scheme of things.
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Apr 6, 2017 12:51:15 GMT -5
This will also stabilize pricing for used gear! I like it! đ
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Post by Casey Leedom on Apr 6, 2017 13:00:41 GMT -5
I personally am happy to see this move. Everything Dan said is true regarding winners & losers, etc. There are lots of ways to generate sales â create good products, have a good customer service experience, loan equipment out for professional reviews, and even a bit of advertising. Offering sales hurts the gross margin profit plan and creates weird bubbles in finances.
I once worked for a company, Silicon Graphics, Inc. (SGI) which got stuck in a mode of always needing to make sales targets at the end of each quarter so the sales staff would be given order to engage in all sorts of promotional activities near the ends of the quarters. The customers figured this out and started holding off purchases till near the end of the quarter which only exacerbated the quarter end sales forecast shortfall and the need to offer more aggressive promotions. This led also to needing to have enough manufacturing capacity in order to meet the end-of-quarter rush ... capacity which was significantly under-utilized at other portions of the quarter, contributing to gross margin erosion.
And that's just one example and a brief examination of the consequences of a "sales culture". There were many other consequences within SGI, but it would be boring to belabor them here.
The funny (weird) thing about the SGI decline was that when I joined the company in 1993, they clearly stated their gross margin targets in employee meeting and the expected gross revenue per employee needed in order to continue the business, basic research, product development, etc. In a very few short years they had lost all sight of this corporate revenue model and the executive team ran the company off a cliff.
So yes, what Dan elucidates as what he believes is the correct revenue model for Emotiva is a Good Thingâ˘. With clear and transparent guidelines, everyone in the company can use them as touch stones for measuring whether their activities match the companies needs.
Casey
[[ Edit P.S.: At SGI we used to call this horrible sales funnel shape as the Quarter Hockey Stick ... ]]
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Post by bolle on Apr 6, 2017 13:07:41 GMT -5
I think they announced something like this already about 2 years ago but didn´t really follow this strategy. It will be interesting to see how this evolves this time. Still a clear answer regarding UFL and 40% cards would be great.
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Post by Loop 7 on Apr 6, 2017 13:13:54 GMT -5
I have to laugh, Dan's message reads as having only gotten 68 views, yet this thread has nearly 200. That's a bit sad. However, I work with a lot of people who are more than willing to discuss things about which they have not read, like requirements docs, UI specs... you name it.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Apr 6, 2017 13:49:10 GMT -5
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Post by jmilton on Apr 6, 2017 13:55:47 GMT -5
...you can say THAT again.
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Post by brubacca on Apr 6, 2017 14:01:18 GMT -5
Dan,
See what happens when you post! It engaged the forum. Come on let's get something about Emersa Availability Announced. The forum is more interesting when you are more involved.
Forget this pricing thing, it is what it is. Let's talk about fun stuff. New product!
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Post by brubacca on Apr 6, 2017 14:02:06 GMT -5
I have to laugh, Dan's message reads as having only gotten 68 views, yet this thread has nearly 200. We'll it is on the Website and in my e-mail too.
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Post by copperpipe on Apr 6, 2017 14:11:16 GMT -5
I'm not complaining either way; I think all my stuff was purchased at full price. But I don't really get the "winners and losers" bit. Everybody knows how Emotiva (used to) operate in terms of sales every so often; so you buy now, you get it now. You wait for sale, you wait but you get it cheaper. For selling gear, you know you have a better chance to sell when there is no sale.... so I ask; where is the problem? This is basic stuff.
Some stores have a 30 day window, where if you buy it and within 30 days it goes on sale, you can ask them to refund it to you for the sale price (so they send you back the difference b/n sale and full price). To me that's a far better idea than simply getting rid of sales. Best of both worlds; Emotiva gets to generate a quick sale when they need to, and customers have at least a 30 day window of knowing the price is guaranteed.
I'm also with the others who say "sales generate sales (or, price reduction generates purchases)".
Anyway, none of this will effect my future purchases.
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Post by chaosrv on Apr 6, 2017 14:17:49 GMT -5
I miss using SGI machines. I personally am happy to see this move. Everything Dan said is true regarding winners & losers, etc. There are lots of ways to generate sales â create good products, have a good customer service experience, loan equipment out for professional reviews, and even a bit of advertising. Offering sales hurts the gross margin profit plan and creates weird bubbles in finances. I once worked for a company, Silicon Graphics, Inc. (SGI) which got stuck in a mode of always needing to make sales targets at the end of each quarter so the sales staff would be given order to engage in all sorts of promotional activities near the ends of the quarters. The customers figured this out and started holding off purchases till near the end of the quarter which only exacerbated the quarter end sales forecast shortfall and the need to offer more aggressive promotions. This led also to needing to have enough manufacturing capacity in order to meet the end-of-quarter rush ... capacity which was significantly under-utilized at other portions of the quarter, contributing to gross margin erosion. And that's just one example and a brief examination of the consequences of a "sales culture". There were many other consequences within SGI, but it would be boring to belabor them here. The funny (weird) thing about the SGI decline was that when I joined the company in 1993, they clearly stated their gross margin targets in employee meeting and the expected gross revenue per employee needed in order to continue the business, basic research, product development, etc. In a very few short years they had lost all sight of this corporate revenue model and the executive team ran the company off a cliff. So yes, what Dan elucidates as what he believes is the correct revenue model for Emotiva is a Good Thingâ˘. With clear and transparent guidelines, everyone in the company can use them as touch stones for measuring whether their activities match the companies needs. Casey [[ Edit P.S.: At SGI we used to call this horrible sales funnel shape as the Quarter Hockey Stick ... ]]
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Post by brutiarti on Apr 6, 2017 14:21:10 GMT -5
They will always have bstock and ebay store for people that they dont want to pay full price and Dan keeping his word. Nothing bad here
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Post by chaosrv on Apr 6, 2017 14:21:45 GMT -5
I'm not surprised. I tend to skip over the "Announcements" section. I have to laugh, Dan's message reads as having only gotten 68 views, yet this thread has nearly 200.
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Post by copperpipe on Apr 6, 2017 14:26:35 GMT -5
I'm not surprised. I tend to skip over the "Announcements" section. I have to laugh, Dan's message reads as having only gotten 68 views, yet this thread has nearly 200. What, you mean you actually browse the forum section by section?? This should brighten your day emotivalounge.proboards.com/threads/recent
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Post by Jim on Apr 6, 2017 14:33:52 GMT -5
I would expect upgrade for life and 40% off to be honored. I would not expect a price decrease. I would really love to see a formal answer from Emotiva on this.
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Post by beardedalbatross on Apr 6, 2017 14:40:11 GMT -5
They announced they were stopping sales over 3 years ago. Then they brought sales back. Now that they have a dealer program they may actually stop. One reason they might be stopping sales is to avoid competing with their retailers. The annoying part is that they raised their prices on a bunch of their products right before this. Along with that, it just seems weird to not lower prices slightly when doing no sales when basically your entire existing product line has been on sale before.
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