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Post by cgramer on Apr 24, 2017 12:47:01 GMT -5
Hi, all. I'm looking to update my ancient stereo system, and came up with the following system (plus speaker stands, cables, etc.):
Pre/pro: PT-100
Power amp: A-300
Speakers: Airmotiv B1 (pair)
Subwoofer: Airmotiv S10 x 2
Plus: BTM-1 Bluetooth module
I'd specifically like to know what you think of this speaker/subs combo compared with, say, the Hsu HB-1 MK2 and a ULS-15 MK2 or VTF-2 MK5. I've heard the Hsu combo (with the ULS-15 sub) and loved it, though it made me realize I'd probably prefer a ported sub.
Thanks in advance!
Chris
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Post by brutiarti on Apr 24, 2017 13:16:39 GMT -5
Hi, all. I'm looking to update my ancient stereo system, and came up with the following system (plus speaker stands, cables, etc.): Pre/pro: PT-100 Power amp: A-300 Speakers: Airmotiv B1 (pair) Subwoofer: Airmotiv S10 x 2 Plus: BTM-1 Bluetooth module I'd specifically like to know what you think of this speaker/subs combo compared with, say, the Hsu HB-1 MK2 and a ULS-15 MK2 or VTF-2 MK5. I've heard the Hsu combo (with the ULS-15 sub) and loved it, though it made me realize I'd probably prefer a ported sub. Thanks in advance! Chris Looks a sweet system you are gonna build there. If you have the room and extra cash go with the T1's that have outstanding reviews. |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 24, 2017 13:51:30 GMT -5
I like it. I would go with the T1's or the T2s as well.  But if the B1's sound anything like the airmotiv 4, as long as your room is relatively small-ish and you're not bringing the place down, I don't see why it shouldn't sound pretty darn nice either. |
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 24, 2017 15:26:34 GMT -5
Hi, all. I'm looking to update my ancient stereo system, and came up with the following system (plus speaker stands, cables, etc.): Pre/pro: PT-100 Power amp: A-300 Speakers: Airmotiv B1 (pair) Subwoofer: Airmotiv S10 x 2 Plus: BTM-1 Bluetooth module I'd specifically like to know what you think of this speaker/subs combo compared with, say, the Hsu HB-1 MK2 and a ULS-15 MK2 or VTF-2 MK5. I've heard the Hsu combo (with the ULS-15 sub) and loved it, though it made me realize I'd probably prefer a ported sub. Thanks in advance! Chris The main loudspeakers are by far, THE most important part of any system. Many here own and rave about Emo. Loudspeakers. The electronics are top notch (I've got the XMC)) That being said, I would suggest hearing as many competitive speakers in your budget as you can before buying. Any pair you decide upon will be driven well by Emotiva's electronics. And who knows....you may still end up with the B1's. Bill |
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cgolf
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Posts: 4,613
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Post by cgolf on Apr 24, 2017 15:34:26 GMT -5
Hi, all. I'm looking to update my ancient stereo system, and came up with the following system (plus speaker stands, cables, etc.): Pre/pro: PT-100 Power amp: A-300 Speakers: Airmotiv B1 (pair) Subwoofer: Airmotiv S10 x 2 Plus: BTM-1 Bluetooth module I'd specifically like to know what you think of this speaker/subs combo compared with, say, the Hsu HB-1 MK2 and a ULS-15 MK2 or VTF-2 MK5. I've heard the Hsu combo (with the ULS-15 sub) and loved it, though it made me realize I'd probably prefer a ported sub. Thanks in advance! Chris The main loudspeakers are by far, THE most important part of any system. Many here own and rave about Emo. Loudspeakers. The electronics are top notch (I've got the XMC)) That being said, I would suggest hearing as many competitive speakers in your budget as you can before buying. Any pair you decide upon will be driven well by Emotiva's electronics. And who knows....you may still end up with the B1's. Bill Yes, listen to as many speakers as possible. Which has become much more difficult to do. The past month I have been reviewing and as much as possible listening to different speakers in my price range. I had it down to the ELACs or the Emo T1s without hearing either and went with the ELAC Debut F6. So far, not disappointed!! |
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Post by goozoo on Apr 24, 2017 16:00:40 GMT -5
Looks like you have already heard what sounds great to you. The inherent challenge with online only dealers and all that jazz.
Specifically with regard to your question, you keep leaning towards bookshelf speakers. Is space an issue, cost, anything else? For the money, you would be better served with an MC-700 for $200 more versus the PT-100. It's basically a step down from the XMC-1 (after the upgrade) and is more versatile for the future. The Airmotive B1 has the same drivers as the T1, but without the woofers, hence is voiced the same. Again for a couple hundred more, consider the T1s as it will then act as a full range speaker and provide a fuller sound field. With a single HSU sub 15" to act as a true subwoofer and crossed accordingly, the cost savings of having to buy one sub would help to offset the price difference in stepping into the T1s. Bear in mind that both speakers in the Airmotiv line should be placed 18-24" from any walls for optimum voicing. Also, note that horn loaded tweeters like the HB-1 are highly directional and hence positioning is critical.
With regard to the sub choices, it is also important to keep in mind the difference between ported and sealed. While a ported can dig deeper, a sealed sub may in fact give you a lower in room frequency response below that of a ported sub. As your primary usage is music, an alternative to the choices you are considering would be a servo sub like the Rythmik Audio 15" sealed or ported. Servos are much faster in their transient response making them a favorite among music lovers. Regardless of what you pick, you really can't go wrong here and will in time upgrade your system ( or room treatments, EQ, etc.)as well.
Enjoy the journey.
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Post by vneal on Apr 24, 2017 16:27:58 GMT -5
I think an all EMOTIVA system would be great. Thinking about a 3rd all Emo system myself
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Post by jackpine on Apr 24, 2017 19:13:11 GMT -5
You could replace the B1 speakers and A-300 amp with Airmotiv 6S powered speakers for the same price.
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Post by vneal on Apr 24, 2017 19:38:23 GMT -5
You are thinking about the:
Pre/pro: PT-100----------------299
Power amp: A-300---------------399
Speakers: Airmotiv B1 (pair)---299
Subwoofer: Airmotiv S10 x 2----598
OK you have a $1600 system here. For a second think outside the box. What makes the most impact on the music? Answer --speakers.
Drop the second sub and the mini B1 speakers which you would need a stand or proper shelf for and add the T 1 towers
Pre/pro: PT-100---------------299
Power amp: A-300-----------399
Speakers: Airmotiv T1---------699
Subwoofer: Airmotiv S10 x 1-- 299
So for $96 more( $1696) you would have a big boy system
For under $1700 you would have a kick ass system. This is what I would do
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Post by teaman on Apr 24, 2017 19:51:44 GMT -5
If it were my money Chris I would invest in this:
Pre/pro: PT-100
Power amp: A-300
Klipsch KLF-20-KLF-30 (used)
Big boy speakers that are 102db sensitive, kick ass with low power and eliminate the need for a sub.
Tim
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Post by vneal on Apr 24, 2017 20:03:50 GMT -5
If it were my money Chris I would invest in this: Pre/pro: PT-100 Power amp: A-300 Klipsch KLF-20-KLF-30 (used) Big boy speakers that are 102db sensitive, kick ass with low power and eliminate the need for a sub. Tim Not disagreeing but 102db does not make a speaker better. It does make it louder and require less amp. Nothing wrong with Klipsch I have owned the LaScallas and K Horns but for their vintage units--bass was not abundant. Listen with your ears on the speakers. With Emo if you dont like the sound send em back |
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Post by teaman on Apr 24, 2017 20:49:54 GMT -5
If it were my money Chris I would invest in this: Pre/pro: PT-100 Power amp: A-300 Klipsch KLF-20-KLF-30 (used) Big boy speakers that are 102db sensitive, kick ass with low power and eliminate the need for a sub. Tim Not disagreeing but 102db does not make a speaker better. It does make it louder and require less amp. Nothing wrong with Klipsch I have owned the LaScallas and K Horns but for their vintage units--bass was not abundant. Listen with your ears on the speakers. With Emo if you dont like the sound send em back With the KLF series bass is more than substantial, by far the best Klipsch speakers for bass output. Dual twelve inch or dual ten inch woofers that will shake the fillings out of your mouth. I agree the Belles, KHorns, LaScalas are all lacking in the bass department. Not the case with these puppies. Check the specs hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_1/klipsch-klf-30-speakers-3-2000.htmlTim |
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Post by gus4emo on Apr 24, 2017 20:55:26 GMT -5
Hi, all. I'm looking to update my ancient stereo system, and came up with the following system (plus speaker stands, cables, etc.): Pre/pro: PT-100 Power amp: A-300 Speakers: Airmotiv B1 (pair) Subwoofer: Airmotiv S10 x 2 Plus: BTM-1 Bluetooth module I'd specifically like to know what you think of this speaker/subs combo compared with, say, the Hsu HB-1 MK2 and a ULS-15 MK2 or VTF-2 MK5. I've heard the Hsu combo (with the ULS-15 sub) and loved it, though it made me realize I'd probably prefer a ported sub. Thanks in advance! Chris I have the VTF MK2, using it with one port plugged, strictly for movies, love it, for music I use an Outlaw EX, love as well. ... |
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Post by cgramer on Apr 25, 2017 8:55:54 GMT -5
Drop the second sub and the mini B1 speakers which you would need a stand or proper shelf for and add the T 1 towers Pre/pro: PT-100---------------299 Power amp: A-300-----------399 Speakers: Airmotiv T1---------699 Subwoofer: Airmotiv S10 x 1-- 299 So for $96 more( $1696) you would have a big boy system Hmm, that's a very interesting idea, but I'm looking for big bass in my system, and replacing a second sub with floorstanders that use relatively small woofers doesn't seem to further that goal. The B1s are essentially the T1s without the woofers, so I'd rather have two subs handle the low frequency duties and use a high pass filter to reduce the strain on the B1s so they can play that much more clearly. Are the T1s more bass-capable than it seems? More capable than the S10? Chris |
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Post by goozoo on Apr 26, 2017 14:48:37 GMT -5
Drop the second sub and the mini B1 speakers which you would need a stand or proper shelf for and add the T 1 towers Pre/pro: PT-100---------------299 Power amp: A-300-----------399 Speakers: Airmotiv T1---------699 Subwoofer: Airmotiv S10 x 1-- 299 So for $96 more( $1696) you would have a big boy system Hmm, that's a very interesting idea, but I'm looking for big bass in my system, and replacing a second sub with floorstanders that use relatively small woofers doesn't seem to further that goal. The B1s are essentially the T1s without the woofers, so I'd rather have two subs handle the low frequency duties and use a high pass filter to reduce the strain on the B1s so they can play that much more clearly. Are the T1s more bass-capable than it seems? More capable than the S10? Chris No, the T1s are not more capable than a 10" dedicated sub, but having "full range" speakers will provide you with more enveloping sound, and you would still use the sub(s). The difference would only be roughly $400 according to the calcaulations quoted above (if you go dual subs). |
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 26, 2017 19:01:15 GMT -5
Hmm, that's a very interesting idea, but I'm looking for big bass in my system, and replacing a second sub with floorstanders that use relatively small woofers doesn't seem to further that goal. The B1s are essentially the T1s without the woofers, so I'd rather have two subs handle the low frequency duties and use a high pass filter to reduce the strain on the B1s so they can play that much more clearly. Are the T1s more bass-capable than it seems? More capable than the S10? Chris Hi Chris, I think you are confusing woofers (bass) with sub woofers (sub bass). By far most of the bass we hear in music comes from the woofer if we look at it from the perspective of musical instrument's frequencies. A kick drum at around 50 hz sits nicely in woofer territory, as does a bassoon, bass guitar cello, trombone and left hand 88 key piano. So the only musical instruments that a sub woofer is really needed for are pipe organs, harps and contra bassoons. It is also worth keeping in mind that frequencies above ~80hz are considered directional, so really should be referenced to the channel that their sound should appear from. Otherwise we lose the stereo effect, directionality, sound staging, etc. In a movie sense we want as much directionality as possible, we want that shotgun firing to come from the direction the shotgun is located in the scene. Another example, a bazooka's sound frequency is around 55 hz which is window shaking, not floorboard rattling. My experience has been that bookshelf speakers with frequency roll off much below 70 hz don't really work all that well in a cohesive sense. The low frequency sound slope from around 90 hz is noticeable and we no longer have a homogenous audio experience. My preference, based on that experience, is keeping the vast majority of the sound effects in the speaker that has the directionality, so a sub woofer really only handles a very small proportion of the sound track. In simple terms a sub woofer doesn't handle the bass, it handles the sub bass and most of the sound action in movies is bass not sub bass plus a lot of it is directional. Cheers Gary |
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Post by creimes on Apr 26, 2017 21:55:33 GMT -5
Welcome Chris and it looks to be a really nice 2ch setup there, Emotiva does not disappoint especially for the cost of ownership One thing to keep in mind like others have mentioned is if you don't already own speaker stands and have to purchase them for the B1's I personally would just go with the towers, for me when I owned the Stealth 6's I had some stands and the cost of ownership was about $250, and if you have little ones in the house from what I see in your profile I personally don't like the idea of heavy speakers that can come down on the little ones, and yes towers can be knocked over but are still more stable and bookshelf speakers become a falling object. Chad |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 26, 2017 23:32:31 GMT -5
I disagree a little about the naming sub bass (and only the bass). That makes us think that it's bass we can't hear which I think gary will agree that's not the case. It's not necessarily just pipe organs. Think of it like this: Using two subwoofers will pin the solid bass quite nicely and add a sense of stability to your sound. An intoxicating 3 dimensionality to the sound. Quite impressiev imo. I listented to Yulanga dead can dance and I heard this low bass sound moving around in 3 dimensions across a large room at Boomzilla 's place and it was utterly fantastic. I realized it was something my system cannot do without subwoofers. Try getting movementi n 3 dimensions in this bass range and you'll know it's VERY hard to do. In fact I haven't heard it reproduced since that intoxicating first experience. However, a small speaker can't do what a larger can do. A larger tower has dynamics to spare vs the smaller speaker and can produce a more pleasing and more appropriate sized sound in the important places - the mid range. You'd be surprised at how enormous the dynamic range can be found in the mid range. Truth be told both...both subwoofer and tower speakers provide different types of appeal. You have to decide. If I were you, buying both the subwoofer and the bookshelves will land you with tremendous sound - which won't be outdone by spending even VERY amounts of money! It is painful when you think about the ost but think about the quality that a system will LAST you over years of enjoyment will cost. From listening to the airmotiv system, I know that Emotiva products have the potential to punch well past their asking price. You picked the right brand and honestly can't go wrong. But I have to say .... the rewards of spending more really reward you with Emotiva and I can't say the same about other brands. It's one of the best value brands I've heard. And I've heard systems that cost 30 to $50,000. (The other brand is Axiom Audio.) |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 27, 2017 9:17:03 GMT -5
The "moving low bass sound in three dimensions" that garbulky heard at my house was a combination of (non-directional) low bass (call it 50 Hz. and below) and the SAME bass coming from the main speakers. In the crossover overlap range, the main speakers provide the location information and most of the pitch definition & the subs provide the weight. Why am I sure of this? Because the effect that garbulky and I heard was achieved with BOTH of the subwoofers (R & L channel) stacked in the left front corner of the room. Therefore, the position information we heard had to be independent of the subs' physical locations. This emphasizes (again) the fact that low bass is not directional. In other words, below about 80 Hz, and CERTAINLY below 50, your ears can NOT isolate the location of the bass sound. Provided the phase of the subs matches the phase of the main speakers (and the verb "matches" includes phase adjustment reversals for even order crossover slopes), then the main speakers, not the subs, determine the "location" of the bass. It works well. When a drum or bass guitar, for example, is playing in the right speaker of my system, the bass sounds like it is coming from the right speaker, despite the fact that the right subwoofer is in the far LEFT corner of the room. Cheers - Boom |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 27, 2017 9:25:12 GMT -5
The "moving low bass sound in three dimensions" that garbulky heard at my house was a combination of (non-directional) low bass (call it 50 Hz. and below) and the SAME bass coming from the main speakers. In the crossover overlap range, the main speakers provide the location information and most of the pitch definition & the subs provide the weight. Why am I sure of this? Because the effect that garbulky and I heard was achieved with BOTH of the subwoofers (R & L channel) stacked in the left front corner of the room. Therefore, the position information we heard had to be independent of the subs' physical locations. This emphasizes (again) the fact that low bass is not directional. In other words, below about 80 Hz, and CERTAINLY below 50, your ears can NOT isolate the location of the bass sound. Provided the phase of the subs matches the phase of the main speakers (and the verb "matches" includes phase adjustment reversals for even order crossover slopes), then the main speakers, not the subs, determine the "location" of the bass. It works well. When a drum or bass guitar, for example, is playing in the right speaker of my system, the bass sounds like it is coming from the right speaker, despite the fact that the right subwoofer is in the far LEFT corner of the room. Cheers - Boom It's the harmonics or overtones of the low bass that we are sensitive to in direction. Having said that, there is still a sensation that the subs are in one side of the room probably from acoustics and the subs own harmonics - just not as much when you have two subs because they fill the room much nicer. But you do hear the "bass" coming from the side that has the instrument in it. |
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But if the B1's sound anything like the airmotiv 4, as long as your room is relatively small-ish and you're not bringing the place down, I don't see why it shouldn't sound pretty darn nice either. 
