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Post by jackfish on Apr 27, 2017 12:56:24 GMT -5
This emphasizes (again) the fact that low bass is not directional. In other words, below about 80 Hz, and CERTAINLY below 50, your ears can NOT isolate the location of the bass sound. Provided the phase of the subs matches the phase of the main speakers (and the verb "matches" includes phase adjustment reversals for even order crossover slopes), then the main speakers, not the subs, determine the "location" of the bass. This is not necessarily the case. With loudspeakers that can reproduce 25 Hz or lower material there can be aural cues in the program material that will be perceived as locationality of low bass material. The same can happen with subwoofers, especially with relatively higher crossover points.
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DYohn
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Posts: 18,366
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Post by DYohn on Apr 27, 2017 13:23:03 GMT -5
This emphasizes (again) the fact that low bass is not directional. In other words, below about 80 Hz, and CERTAINLY below 50, your ears can NOT isolate the location of the bass sound. Provided the phase of the subs matches the phase of the main speakers (and the verb "matches" includes phase adjustment reversals for even order crossover slopes), then the main speakers, not the subs, determine the "location" of the bass. This is not necessarily the case. With loudspeakers that can reproduce 25 Hz or lower material there can be aural cues in the program material that will be perceived as locationality of low bass material. The same can happen with subwoofers, especially with relatively higher crossover points. The science is that frequencies below about 80Hz do not contain any localization or sound stage cues. Humans can, however, perceive loudness of low bass, and we do derive directionality by determining the general source of the loudest tones. So while it is true that low bass is non-directional, it is also true that we can generally determine where the speakers are located based on loudness.
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 27, 2017 17:50:37 GMT -5
I disagree a little about the naming sub bass (and only the bass). That makes us think that it's bass we can't hear which I think gary will agree that's not the case. I deliberately did try to keep it simple, i.e. woofers produce bass and sub woofers produce sub bass (commonly referred to as frequencies below 60 hz) . The frequency ranges of common orchestral instruments (example below) I have found to be quite helpful in my understanding. Cheers Gary
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 27, 2017 17:54:49 GMT -5
The "moving low bass sound in three dimensions" that garbulky heard at my house was a combination of (non-directional) low bass (call it 50 Hz. and below) and the SAME bass coming from the main speakers. In the crossover overlap range, the main speakers provide the location information and most of the pitch definition & the subs provide the weight. Agreed boom, this is what I was referring too in my reasoning for choosing more fuller (not necessarily "full") range speakers in the HT set up. Cheers Gary
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Post by garbulky on Apr 27, 2017 17:55:31 GMT -5
I disagree a little about the naming sub bass (and only the bass). That makes us think that it's bass we can't hear which I think gary will agree that's not the case. I deliberately did try to keep it simple, i.e. woofers produce bass and sub woofers produce sub bass (commonly referred to as frequencies below 60 hz) . The frequency ranges of common orchestral instruments (example below) I have found to be quite helpful in my understanding. Cheers Gary Very informative. What are those black bars on the end for some of the instruments?
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 27, 2017 18:25:30 GMT -5
I deliberately did try to keep it simple, i.e. woofers produce bass and sub woofers produce sub bass (commonly referred to as frequencies below 60 hz) . The frequency ranges of common orchestral instruments (example below) I have found to be quite helpful in my understanding. Very informative. What are those black bars on the end for some of the instruments? I'm no musician but my understanding is the red is the fundamental frequency and the yellow is the harmonics. In a cymbal, from a drummer friend of mine, a lower frequency can be produced by striking the bell (central) area of the cymbal. which is possibly the black shading. In regards to tubas I understand that there are a small number of subcontrabass tubas that have been made but they aren't the mainstream tuba. Also some tubas have resonance below the common frequency range. Maybe a musician can help better then I can. Cheers Gary
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Post by jackfish on Apr 27, 2017 21:51:28 GMT -5
The slap of the string on a standup bass or the strike of the bass drum are examples of the aural cues that lend directionality to low bass material.
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Post by pedrocols on Apr 28, 2017 8:14:48 GMT -5
Very interesting in another thread how Mr. Keith explained how bass for a movie is totally totally totally differently mixed than bass for music(Two Channel Rules!!!).
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