XPA gen3 or A300?

[lucas]

I'm looking for a stereo power amp for a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 10s. I have been happy with my TA-100, and plan to use that as the preamp, so I am considering the XPA gen 3 or A-300. Would the XPA be too much power for these speakers? Would the A-300 be enough power? Any opinions on which would be a better match for these speakers?

[novisnick]

May 9, 2017 19:49:12 GMT -5 lucas said:

I'm looking for a stereo power amp for a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 10s. I have been happy with my TA-100, and plan to use that as the preamp, so I am considering the XPA gen 3 or A-300. Would the XPA be too much power for these speakers? Would the A-300 be enough power? Any opinions on which would be a better match for these speakers?

My friend, there is so much more then just the amp(s), what other gear are you using and for what specific purpose? What size room and is it treated at all? What volume do you like and type of music. All of this and more needs to be answered to refine your specific needs without waisting your hard earnd money.

Respectfully, novisnick 

[garbulky]

No. Yes. XPA. If you want to save money buy an XPA-2 gen 2 used. warranty transfers

[leonski]

MA lists sensitivty @90db. Really on the high end. Also? Recommended amp of up to 200 watts while 'maximum power handling' (a fictitious number) is listed as 250 watts.
If you are listening at all, it is difficult to OverPower a speaker. MA lists max SPL @117db, method of measurment NOT specified. But probably NOT continuous.

97db continuous with 20db peaks? That's wacky loud and not a LOT of 'continuous' power.

My Parasound A23 would drive these to distraction.

Buy the best watts you can afford, not the most.

[algreen345]

May 11, 2017 22:53:46 GMT -5 leonski said:

MA lists sensitivty @90db. Really on the high end. Also? Recommended amp of up to 200 watts while 'maximum power handling' (a fictitious number) is listed as 250 watts.
If you are listening at all, it is difficult to OverPower a speaker. MA lists max SPL @117db, method of measurment NOT specified. But probably NOT continuous.

97db continuous with 20db peaks? That's wacky loud and not a LOT of 'continuous' power.

My Parasound A23 would drive these to distraction.

Buy the best watts you can afford, not the most.

I've had an XPA-3 for years. It is a good amp and I was originally impressed by the 200 watts per channel. But I found it overkill for my small room and the amp gets bright, grainy, and strains at higher volumes. I thought about getting another Emotiva amp, but I think the company demonstrates budget design choices. They focus on cutting costs and increasing profits, marketing and hype, instead of design integrity and customer satisfaction. The XPA-3 sounded better than a receiver and I wanted to like it, but it was never better sounding than the 35 watt Audio Innovations integrated I had years before.

I'm selling my XPA-3 and getting a Parasound A23. As you said, wattage itself is not the most important factor to audio quality.

[garbulky]

Jun 18, 2017 6:44:14 GMT -5 algreen345 said:

May 11, 2017 22:53:46 GMT -5 leonski said:

MA lists sensitivty @90db. Really on the high end. Also? Recommended amp of up to 200 watts while 'maximum power handling' (a fictitious number) is listed as 250 watts.
If you are listening at all, it is difficult to OverPower a speaker. MA lists max SPL @117db, method of measurment NOT specified. But probably NOT continuous.

97db continuous with 20db peaks? That's wacky loud and not a LOT of 'continuous' power.

My Parasound A23 would drive these to distraction.

Buy the best watts you can afford, not the most.

I've had an XPA-3 for years. It is a good amp and I was originally impressed by the 200 watts per channel. But I found it overkill for my small room and the amp gets bright, grainy, and strains at higher volumes. I thought about getting another Emotiva amp, but I think the company demonstrates budget design choices. They focus on cutting costs and increasing profits, marketing and hype, instead of design integrity and customer satisfaction. The XPA-3 sounded better than a receiver and I wanted to like it, but it was never better sounding than the 35 watt Audio Innovations integrated I had years before.

I'm selling my XPA-3 and getting a Parasound A23. As you said, wattage itself is not the most important factor to audio quality.

Bright, grainy and strains at higher volumes. This sounds familiar to me - but the problem lies elsewhere. If you are in a smaller room, your room will contribute to this effect. I know because I have a small living room. At louder volumes, this effect is noticeeable. Try room treatments. They are cheaper than an amp and a great value for the money. The graininess (after the room is properly solved for may come from your DAC/preamp combo.)

[leonski]

A decent stereo in a great room sounds better than a really terrifiic stereo in a poor room.
So, to that end, garbulky gets some traction.
As to the specifics of WHAT may be needed in any given room? A few things stand out like maybe applying some absorption at first reflection points.

Reading and following a GOOD room arrangement plan helps many persons, too. Something like the Cardas article, linked here.

www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php

A reasonable START to any listening upgrade program, indeed, prior to tossing more money at the situation.

Still and all, my original suggestion to purchase the Best watts you can afford, not the Most, still holds. At least one person around here with 98db sensitive speakers (very high) is seeking to
upgrade to large monoblocks. Tough to convince someone who is interested in 'lots of power'.

[garbulky]

Jun 18, 2017 11:46:59 GMT -5 leonski said:

A decent stereo in a great room sounds better than a really terrifiic stereo in a poor room.
So, to that end, garbulky gets some traction.
As to the specifics of WHAT may be needed in any given room? A few things stand out like maybe applying some absorption at first reflection points.

Reading and following a GOOD room arrangement plan helps many persons, too. Something like the Cardas article, linked here.

www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php

A reasonable START to any listening upgrade program, indeed, prior to tossing more money at the situation.

Still and all, my original suggestion to purchase the Best watts you can afford, not the Most, still holds. At least one person around here with 98db sensitive speakers (very high) is seeking to
upgrade to large monoblocks. Tough to convince someone who is interested in 'lots of power'.

Sure. Better quality watts is better. But one can confuse more watts and poor quality together when I have found that depending on the amp you can have better quality and better watts Take the XPA-1 gen 2for example. I don't play loud, but is the best Amp I have heard

[vcautokid]

Quantity is a quality onto itself frequently. Dynamic headroom helps you get the most from your speakers, and music. Dynamic clean power that is. No one ever upset a speaker by applying dynamic clean power. Clipped distorted power on the other hand, is a killer of any loudspeaker. The Xpa-2 and Xpa-1 are certainly wonderful amps. Know them very well. If it is in the cards an Xpa-1,2,3 will delight no end. Another consideration is what Emotiva Audio is doing with the Gen 3 amplifiers. Absolutely their latest and greatest taking the embodiment of XPR, and XPA, and creating their best yet.

I will say, any XPA is a keeper, and a thrill a second on your movies, and music. I love options, and Emotiva gives you plenty. My Bias, no pun intended is with the Xpa if you can. Certainly the a300 is terrific, but the XPA Gen 2 and Gen 3 are creating some great times in theaters, and music rooms alike. So whatever your selection. Enjoy the ride. Have an awesome Sunday.

[leonski]

As a counterpoint position from Nelson Pass.

Keep in mind the provision of SENSITIVE SPEAKERS. Anything under maybe 90db /1watt-meter should not apply. Likewise, speakers which require the power supply of an Arc Welder for stability
are also excluded.

www.firstwatt.com

All judgements are subjective in this regard, with the addition that as you educate yourself or GET an education in these matters, your opinon may change.
Purists Swear By this approach.

Using photography as an example, a photo I 'finalized' 10 or 20 years ago can ALWAYS be made better based on what I now know and refinements of preference.
So too for listening. I had an equalizer many years ago for bass and HF Not a '10 band' or whatever. It lasted maybe 6 months in my system of near constant screwing around which
ended up No Better than without the additional device. It had even come with a microphone and warble-tone generator for 'calibration'.

[algreen345]

Jun 18, 2017 10:57:01 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Jun 18, 2017 6:44:14 GMT -5 algreen345 said:

I've had an XPA-3 for years. It is a good amp and I was originally impressed by the 200 watts per channel. But I found it overkill for my small room and the amp gets bright, grainy, and strains at higher volumes. I thought about getting another Emotiva amp, but I think the company demonstrates budget design choices. They focus on cutting costs and increasing profits, marketing and hype, instead of design integrity and customer satisfaction. The XPA-3 sounded better than a receiver and I wanted to like it, but it was never better sounding than the 35 watt Audio Innovations integrated I had years before.

I'm selling my XPA-3 and getting a Parasound A23. As you said, wattage itself is not the most important factor to audio quality.

Bright, grainy and strains at higher volumes. This sounds familiar to me - but the problem lies elsewhere. If you are in a smaller room, your room will contribute to this effect. I know because I have a small living room. At louder volumes, this effect is noticeeable. Try room treatments. They are cheaper than an amp and a great value for the money. The graininess (after the room is properly solved for may come from your DAC/preamp combo.)

Ive had the Parasound A23 at home for a few days now and it has been interesting and somewhat disappointing to test it A/B against the XPA-3. Here are my findings for those who may be interested:

1. Amps do sound mostly the same.

2. My Elemental Designs W6-6TC speakers are amazingly detailed and neutral with a slight tendency towards lean but extended bass. They have front-firing ports and get little bass reinforcement from the back walls.

3. My living room, which measures 11x22, has hardwood floors, blinds on the windows, and linen sofa and chair, the sound can get bright.

4. The XPA-3 has slightly more extended bass and treble, and a sound that is wider from low to high with better transients and dynamic range. It is very slight.

5. The Parasound has slightly warmer balance with slightly less extension in the bass and treble, with a sound that is slightly less dynamic. But it is still very dynamic, just 125 watts dynamic compared to 200 watts.

6. When you have bright room dynamics and a speaker with no rear firing port, more amplification wattage will create more brightness.

7. Will have to look into a thicker rug or use EMOQ in the UMC-200 to pull down the trebble and warm up the balance if I keep the XPA-3.

Overall, I like the dynamic sound of the XPA-3 better with the warmth of the Parasound. I guess this is what you get when you pay $2400 for the Parasound A21, which has 200 watts and the same tonal balance as the A23. But if your room has carpet on the floor and curtains instead of blinds, you can save a lot of money and get the Emotiva because all amps sound so similar that room dynamics are probably more important than brand when it comes to well engineered amplification.

I am going to live with both a few more weeks before I decide which one to keep.

[garbulky]

Jun 26, 2017 13:47:18 GMT -5 algreen345 said:

Jun 18, 2017 10:57:01 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Bright, grainy and strains at higher volumes. This sounds familiar to me - but the problem lies elsewhere. If you are in a smaller room, your room will contribute to this effect. I know because I have a small living room. At louder volumes, this effect is noticeeable. Try room treatments. They are cheaper than an amp and a great value for the money. The graininess (after the room is properly solved for may come from your DAC/preamp combo.)

Ive had the Parasound A23 at home for a few days now and it has been interesting and somewhat disappointing to test it A/B against the XPA-3. Here are my findings for those who may be interested:

1. Amps do sound mostly the same.

2. My Elemental Designs W6-6TC speakers are amazingly detailed and neutral with a slight tendency towards lean but extended bass. They have front-firing ports and get little bass reinforcement from the back walls.

3. My living room, which measures 11x22, has hardwood floors, blinds on the windows, and linen sofa and chair, the sound can get bright.

4. The XPA-3 has slightly more extended bass and treble, and a sound that is wider from low to high with better transients and dynamic range. It is very slight.

5. The Parasound has slightly warmer balance with slightly less extension in the bass and treble, with a sound that is slightly less dynamic. But it is still very dynamic, just 125 watts dynamic compared to 200 watts.

6. When you have bright room dynamics and a speaker with no rear firing port, more amplification wattage will create more brightness.

7. Will have to look into a thicker rug or use EMOQ in the UMC-200 to pull down the trebble and warm up the balance if I keep the XPA-3.

Overall, I like the dynamic sound of the XPA-3 better with the warmth of the Parasound. I guess this is what you get when you pay $2400 for the Parasound A21, which has 200 watts and the same tonal balance as the A23. But if your room has carpet on the floor and curtains instead of blinds, you can save a lot of money and get the Emotiva because all amps sound so similar that room dynamics are probably more important than brand when it comes to well engineered amplification.

I am going to live with both a few more weeks before I decide which one to keep.

I found these to be more effective.
www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24-x-48-x-2--1001.html

[algreen345]

Thanks Garbukly, I will ask the boss but I doubt she will approve them in our living room.

[leonski]

Garbulky Quote:

Sure. Better quality watts is better. But one can confuse more watts and poor quality together when I have found that depending on the amp you can have better quality and better watts Take the XPA-1 gen 2for example. I don't play loud, but is the best Amp I have heard

Some examples exist of BOTH being in the same package. High power AND best sound. The fairly $$$ Parasound JC-1 gets very good reviews from both reviewers and regular people. I think JA of Stereophile used 'em in his reference system.

I also see, above, a citation of the XPA-3 besting the Parasound A23. Comments by Algreen were about dynamics and other 'listenables'. One comment about such tests. They MUST be done in a rigorously Level Matched situation. Louder almost always sounds better.
The difference between 200 watts and 125 watts? Maybe 2db. hardly 'dominating', and no mention made of the amps possible dynamic VS continuous output. Parasosund calls the A23 1.5db dynamic headroom. maybe 170 or 175, give or take.

Just my Opine but In Order of operations;

1. Detail Setup using some of the online helps. CARDAS would be a very good starting point
2. Than some minor and discreet listening room improvements. Do NOT overdo this phase.
recording studios are AWFUL places to actually listen to music
3. Potentially upgrade equipment.
4. What do rear ports have to do with 'brightness', since a rear port will generally be most active at bass resonance and not more than an octave above, before
the rest of the drivers take over.
5. Sidewall and floor 'bounce' can easily double the perception of 'bass' or create a thick mess. Experiment with placing hard back against the wall and moving OUT maybe 30".



You list the price for the A21 but also say you had the A23. Which was it? I have a single A23 behind each panel. Nice combo and terrific 'slam' factor. I also low-cut the input to the bass part of each amp at about 50hz, which helps sub integration and imaging. NOT bridged, but rather currently a passive biamp.
Much LESS bright than the PSAudio GCC250 they replace. The PSAudio was a 'D' amp using B&O ASP modules of 250@8 / 500@4 per side in a dual mono configuration. I actually think the Parasosund with maybe 1db LESS continuous power has more 'slam' and is a faster amp.

[algreen345]

Thanks leonski. My speakers are front ported and are close to sidewalls that do not re-inforce bass too much. I havn't made serious listening tests yet. My wife has limited patience for such tests in the living room. I lived with the XPA-3 for seven years and the A23 for less than 7 days. So I need to spend more time with the A23 before making a decision. But... the differences so far are not great and I can't rule out small changes in speaker positions after moving racks and gear around... however, I can guess that in my room rear ports on the speakers would have compensated for the fast surfaces. Or maybe I need to buy thick carpeting...

[leonski]

If you are placing your speaker, and I mean either side, near a side wall, is that also a Corner? corner loading is a classic way to increase bass. How FAR makes a big difference.
Closer / more effect.

Please READ up on room setup. Read about 'First Reflection Points'.

A decent stereo in a great room is better than a good stereo in a poor room. Room / Setup is, IMO, the easiest, cheapest and best way to better sound. Throwing $$$ at a poorly shaped room (say, square)
and doing an indifferent setup is a recipe for not being satisfied. More $$$ is not the 'cure'.

Once you have control of your room, it may be possible to go thru an upgrade cycle, but without fixing the room first? IMO, a waste.

You need to get the wife out of the way while you experiment. Negotiate for 3 or 4 days to 'disasterize' the room as long as you PUT IT ALL BACK.
How large is the room, anyway? Not just square footage, but CUBIC feet? Ceiling height must also be considered.
Demonstrating better sound maybe a way to get SWMBO buy-in. (She Who Must Be Obeyed) If you are in a situation where Decor Trumps Sound, you are essentially screwed and might as well get Bose.

[algreen345]

Good advice. I put the XPA-3 back in the rack today and it sound nearly the same as the Parasound A23. Maybe I notice a little more detail and bass control, but it is a very small difference. And now I am satisfied that I wasn't missing any other really great sound and that I had it all along. I will keep the emotiva and sell the Parasound. If anyone wants to buy an A23 that sounds just like an XPA-3 Gen 1, please let me know. :-)

[teaman]

Jun 27, 2017 23:38:34 GMT -5 algreen345 said:

Good advice. I put the XPA-3 back in the rack today and it sound nearly the same as the Parasound A23. Maybe I notice a little more detail and bass control, but it is a very small difference. And now I am satisfied that I wasn't missing any other really great sound and that I had it all along. I will keep the emotiva and sell the Parasound. If anyone wants to buy an A23 that sounds just like an XPA-3 Gen 1, please let me know. :-)

Personally I don't think your problem is the amp...either amp. I think it is your speakers. A small two way bookshelf speaker like that is not going to put out large volumes of music no matter how much amp you put into them. If you were running the speakers in a home theater and were supported by a sub they may do a high power amp justice, not in stereo. At least not to me. My Klipsch RB-81's are twice the size of your speakers and I have to ease up in order to not overpower them with my XPA-2. I am sure that is why you felt that your 35 wpc integrated paired better with them. Instead of spending ungodly amounts on amps, buy new speakers. The fact that they are only 86db efficient tells me they are hard to push but not large enough to push hard. Quite a dilemma.

[leonski]

Might be something to what teaman is saying.
But we don't know enough.
A high sensitivity speaker may make good use of 'watts' but if it won't play over 100db music than how much power do you Really Need?
Likewise, AlGreen has some low / low medium sensitivity speakers. It is unknown how much power they'll 'ultimately' take and the SPL with that kind of juice.
Too bad that manufacturers data is such a can of WORMS that I no longer trust.
Teaman's KLIPSCH are pretty high sensitivity. Regardless of the size of the box. though that does play into it. The original RB-81 call for 97db sensitivity and 150watts rms with
600 watts peak. whatever that means. But I will trust the sensitivity, even though there are several ways to arrive at that number.

I'd wonder than what the loudness potential of each speaker might be. Teaman's RB-81 Klipsch or AlGreens Monitor Audio Silver 10s. The monitor audio, for example, lists 90db sensitivity
at one watt. Well, it's a 4 ohm speaker, so that SHOULD be measured at 2 volts, not 2.83 volts.

This kind of mish-mash is why I like to HEAR stuff rather than wade thru contradictory specs and a bunch of advertising he said / she said. And why I'm generally loath to actually say 'go buy this' and you'll be happy. Anything I recommend has made ME happy and is not saying much about what'll make YOU happy.

But I DO know with high confidence that fixing the room and setup would be a great start to getting better sound at minimal expense. I should take my OWN ADVICE!

[algreen345]

My living room is small (12x22) and the speakers are outstanding. I had the opportunity to compare them to the much heralded KEF LS50 Wireless. In my room, the ED's were superior. Better trebble. Better mid-range. Bass was equal even if, admittedly, the LS50W does go deeper, maybe to 35hz. But overall, I saw absolutely no reason to upgrade speakers. Now, once upon a time I had B&W 683's and they completely overwhelmed my listening space. Too big. Too much sound. Boomy bass. The standmounters I have now put out beautiful sound that fills my space and they look great - to my eyes. Putting GAS away now. Satisfied.