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Post by brutiarti on May 30, 2017 8:33:29 GMT -5
The price is indeed higher than before. Looks like emotiva is getting away with higher prices without losing market share. There is no company right now with the quality that emotiva offered at the prices that they had in the past. I thought that monoprice or similar company will come up with an alternative but i guess they are not real manufacturers and cannot offer the quality to match emotiva. Good for Big Dan and co tough.
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Post by Jim on May 30, 2017 9:21:22 GMT -5
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Post by garbulky on May 30, 2017 9:55:01 GMT -5
Does UPA stand for something now that I think about it??? Universal power amp? Uppity...undulating.....underling... I believe it was "Ultra" power amplifier. The U series stood for ultra. I'm not sure what the X-series stands for.
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Post by garbulky on May 30, 2017 9:58:57 GMT -5
web.archive.org/web/20101123151553/http://emotiva.com/upa5.shtmThe old UPA-5 produced 125 watts of power X5 in to 8 ohms and 185 watts of power in to 4 ohms all channels driven, 600 VA torroidal transformer, no fans, separate XPA amp blades per channel. It sold for $600 and $429 when on sale. Of course that was awhile ago in 2011
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Post by rbk123 on May 30, 2017 10:34:49 GMT -5
$200 list price increase from 6 years ago actually seems pretty normal/reasonable. Less palatable is with no current day sales anymore the price is almost double. c'est la vie.
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Post by knucklehead on May 30, 2017 10:40:45 GMT -5
web.archive.org/web/20101123151553/http://emotiva.com/upa5.shtmThe old UPA-5 produced 125 watts of power X5 in to 8 ohms and 185 watts of power in to 4 ohms all channels driven, 600 VA torroidal transformer, no fans, separate XPA amp blades per channel. It sold for $600 and $429 when on sale. Of course that was awhile ago in 2011 I know the UPA-1 mono amps used XPA blades. I owned a pair for a while and was impressed with the dead quiet noise floor. Are you sure the multi-channel UPA amps used XPA blades? The UPA-7 was not quite as heavy as the XPA-5 - owned one of those for a time too. And a XPA-2. Neither amp performed any better than the UPA-7 IMO. As for the prices rising as they are from Emotiva - for me it simply means I'd be shopping used. I haven't been interested in the UPA line ever since they came up with the 3 digit amp models. The Outlaw 5000 looks like an interesting amp, and it's $200 less than this new amp from Emotiva. They are pricing themselves right into the competition. I've had the Outlaw 7075 for a while now - it runs cool and has enough power for my needs. If it croaks any time soon I'd probably look into that 5000 amp. Or buy a used 7 channel Outlaw.
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Post by garbulky on May 30, 2017 10:58:15 GMT -5
web.archive.org/web/20101123151553/http://emotiva.com/upa5.shtmThe old UPA-5 produced 125 watts of power X5 in to 8 ohms and 185 watts of power in to 4 ohms all channels driven, 600 VA torroidal transformer, no fans, separate XPA amp blades per channel. It sold for $600 and $429 when on sale. Of course that was awhile ago in 2011 I know the UPA-1 mono amps used XPA blades. I owned a pair for a while and was impressed with the dead quiet noise floor. Are you sure the multi-channel UPA amps used XPA blades? The UPA-7 was not quite as heavy as the XPA-5 - owned one of those for a time too. And a XPA-2. Neither amp performed any better than the UPA-7 IMO. As for the prices rising as they are from Emotiva - for me it simply means I'd be shopping used. I haven't been interested in the UPA line ever since they came up with the 3 digit amp models. The Outlaw 5000 looks like an interesting amp, and it's $200 less than this new amp from Emotiva. They are pricing themselves right into the competition. I've had the Outlaw 7075 for a while now - it runs cool and has enough power for my needs. If it croaks any time soon I'd probably look into that 5000 amp. Or buy a used 7 channel Outlaw. I'm not a 100% sure but I do know the UPA-2 had two blades from the XPA-5 amp but I think I am right on it. Where the X-series came in with more weight was that their transformers were quite a bit larger compared to its u-series counterpart. The XPA-5 has a 1200 KVA transformer. I believe it's the same one as the XPA-1 amp. They also tend to have more capacitance (XPA-5, 180,000 mf I think) and overall a slightly beefier build with XLR's. The 3 digit U series models also did not interest me. I have heard them and I found them similar to the Basx amp. They were fine but nothing to really write home about. It does its job without being noteworthy in any particular area. I prefer a tiny bit of character in my amps. Not a coloration but something that draws me to its sound.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on May 30, 2017 11:28:52 GMT -5
I know the UPA-1 mono amps used XPA blades. I owned a pair for a while and was impressed with the dead quiet noise floor. Are you sure the multi-channel UPA amps used XPA blades? The UPA-7 was not quite as heavy as the XPA-5 - owned one of those for a time too. And a XPA-2. Neither amp performed any better than the UPA-7 IMO. As for the prices rising as they are from Emotiva - for me it simply means I'd be shopping used. I haven't been interested in the UPA line ever since they came up with the 3 digit amp models. The Outlaw 5000 looks like an interesting amp, and it's $200 less than this new amp from Emotiva. They are pricing themselves right into the competition. I've had the Outlaw 7075 for a while now - it runs cool and has enough power for my needs. If it croaks any time soon I'd probably look into that 5000 amp. Or buy a used 7 channel Outlaw. I'm not a 100% sure but I do know the UPA-2 had two blades from the XPA-5 amp but I think I am right on it. Where the X-series came in with more weight was that their transformers were quite a bit larger compared to its u-series counterpart. The XPA-5 has a 1200 KVA transformer. I believe it's the same one as the XPA-1 amp. They also tend to have more capacitance (XPA-5, 180,000 mf I think) and overall a slightly beefier build with XLR's. The 3 digit U series models also did not interest me. I have heard them and I found them similar to the Basx amp. They were fine but nothing to really write home about. It does its job without being noteworthy in any particular area. I prefer a tiny bit of character in my amps. Not a coloration but something that draws me to its sound. Let someone who's been around awhile help you with this, garbulky. Back in 2010, when I was buying my first Emotiva amp, I had the unique and awesome opportunity to visit Dan, Lonnie, and Vince to see what this Internet Direct company was all about (as I could see the quality in the build and specs, but couldn't figure out how they did it for such a cost). I spent several hours talking with them about their amps and had narrowed down my purchase between the UPA-5 or the XPA-5. You are correct that the UPA-1 and UPA-2 used XPA blades for their amp modulesl The difference between the UPA-5 and XPA-5 was not just power, but the blades were different as well. With the set up that they had in their display room back in those days, I couldn't hear much of a sonic difference between the 2 amps. But, the blades were slightly different with the UPA blades being the lesser of the 2 because they didn't need to handle the power of the XPA series. The UPA-5 and UPA-7 used different blades and this was how they kept the cost slightly lower than their XPA cousins. The UPA-5 and UPA-7 amps were later discontinued because of the same reason that I went with the XPA-5; there was not a big enough price difference to not go to the XPA-5 unless the UPA-5 was all that you could afford/needed or you needed 7 channels in one box.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on May 30, 2017 11:38:56 GMT -5
$200 list price increase from 6 years ago actually seems pretty normal/reasonable. Less palatable is with no current day sales anymore the price is almost double. c'est la vie. I just bought my first new car since 2005 and was amazed at what I got for the cost compared to what I got in 2005. For $3,000 less than my "luxury" car that I bought new in 05, I didn't get power seats, driver memory, auto headlights, auto dimming mirror, programmable buttons for my garage door, real leather, keyless entry, full size spare, size, performance, and a host of other things. This isn't to degrade or admonish the new car, but to show that everything goes up in price.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on May 30, 2017 11:46:44 GMT -5
Folks, when I bought my UPA-2 used in 2012, I paid $200 for it with 4 years warranty left on it. I believe the most that model sold for was about $350 or so. When I asked late last year about buying a used one for a Christmas present, not one person came in at under $300. And that's for an amp that's been discontinued for 5 years! Meaning that the newest one I could have got would have been at the end our out of warranty. It was worse on Ebay and Audiogon and a few other sites I went to. So, it's not what Emotiva is wanting for their wares, even the used-market wants more for their amps! And sometimes more than they sold for new!
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Post by leonski on May 30, 2017 12:26:58 GMT -5
When I was a kid (Cue sappy music) I kind of got used to certain prices. I wanted a 1970 BMW 2002 so bad I could taste it. Price in those days? 3000$ NEW I even remember the last car in the USA you could buy NEW for 2000$ or less. It was a RAMBLER, a brand long-gone. Prices go up while ones idea of the price seems to stay fixed from some point onward. I know I'm SHOCKED at some prices I see that my young nieces / nephews just pay. Except the XPA-Gen 2 pricing isn't 47 years ago; is it even 2 years ago they discontinued it? Not to mention the BasX is a step down in their performance line/power and it's made in China just like the XPA's were. I'm sure the real reason for the price increases are because Emo is bigger now than they were before and so they have to make more to cover all their costs. Such is the way of business. Sorry, rising prices are a fact of life. Every expense, as you note, comes off the bottom line. So where does that leave us? I'd buy for long-term value no matter WHAT the price. Maybe spend more now and skip what you were thinking about an upgrade in 2 or 3 years. I'll bet the CHINESE are now getting higher wages. And don't forget that ALL gear is now more expensive. ALL. Even Outlaw with the new RR2160 has bumped the price 100$ against the 2150. I personally think it's wrong to go by price first. But I do realize that 'ya only got so much and many other things on the plate.
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Post by rbk123 on May 30, 2017 14:17:46 GMT -5
Actually prices don't always go up. You get a lot more receiver for your $$ today than you did years ago, and the same for a lot of other things. However in this case, no one has stated they expect the price to have gone down, but the amount it has gone up is surprising many. That's really the point people keep emphasizing to the "prices go up" mass response.
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Post by garbulky on May 30, 2017 14:46:26 GMT -5
I'm okay with higher prices....as long as I'm getting something of quality. I believe in paying for excellent gear. We are lucky Emotiva is in the audio business!
For instance the XPA-1 gen 2 is more expensive than the gen 1. But I don't mind. The amp is excellent and you still can't get that quality at those prices anywhere near it. Plus...class A y'all!
Same goes for the XPA-200, which was more expensive than the UPA-2...but I know that's a quality amp and even at the higher price it is worth the moolah! Now when the prices rise but the products get lighter, the watts aren't what they used to be etc then I say the company has to survive. But those aren't the products I'm likely to buy.
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Post by leonski on May 30, 2017 15:12:52 GMT -5
Actually prices don't always go up. You get a lot more receiver for your $$ today than you did years ago, and the same for a lot of other things. However in this case, no one has stated they expect the price to have gone down, but the amount it has gone up is surprising many. That's really the point people keep emphasizing to the "prices go up" mass response. Best case: You get more 'features', some of which are of dubious value: Worst case: HT receivers are disposible. difficult to fix after just a few years and impossible after 5 or 6. Not to mention Obsolete. A good automotive example: Original big Acura Sedan went for about 25 large. NO ABS. Good, 2.5L V-6 of maybe 160 or 170hp. Well Equipped. TODAY? Spend same money on an ACCORD from same company. More power. More electronic aids. ABS! Better Economy. And correcting for inflation, quite the bargain. Same goes for all other car companies, it would seem. If a price for the same / similar thing stays the 'same' for a long time, they it is actually less expensive in terms of labor hours to buy, since inflation makes the dollar less valuable and maybe salaries have risen when Measured In Dollars. It's all about purchasing power.
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Post by rbk123 on May 30, 2017 16:02:09 GMT -5
Best case: You get more 'features', some of which are of dubious value: Worst case: HT receivers are disposible. difficult to fix after just a few years and impossible after 5 or 6. Not to mention Obsolete. A good automotive example: Original big Acura Sedan went for about 25 large. NO ABS. Good, 2.5L V-6 of maybe 160 or 170hp. Well Equipped. TODAY? Spend same money on an ACCORD from same company. More power. More electronic aids. ABS! Better Economy. And correcting for inflation, quite the bargain. Same goes for all other car companies, it would seem. If a price for the same / similar thing stays the 'same' for a long time, they it is actually less expensive in terms of labor hours to buy, since inflation makes the dollar less valuable and maybe salaries have risen when Measured In Dollars. It's all about purchasing power. No, that's not "best case" for receivers. Many receivers today not only have more features, but more power, better pre-amp circuitry, and lower noise floor (amongst just some improvements). Since you asked, just a quick google shows many items that have gone down over the past decade; consumer electronics being one of them. www.bankrate.com/finance/personal-finance/7-falling-price-tags-1.aspxRemember when amps were much more expensive, and then Emotiva came along? That's called a drop in prices. Now Emo goes up, will someone else come in to bring them down? Contrary to your statement prices don't always go up, but once again the point being made here, over and over again, is the amount they've gone up, and in the relative short period of time. It's not all about purchasing power, it's all about what the market will bear and right now the market seems to be bearing Emotiva's price increases.
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Post by leonski on May 30, 2017 18:42:45 GMT -5
Need to make some agreements: Are we talking simply Number of Dollars or inflation corrected?
Just for example, according to one inflation calculator, 1000$ in 2005 would cost 1229.47$ in 2015 A change of nearly 25%. That 1000$ amp in 2015 should have been just over 800$ in 2005. According to the same calculator.
I'm afraid I AM hung up on purchasing power. People on fixed incomes are hurt most, since Social Security and other retirement income rarely keeps up. Regular working people feel the Same Pinch. Who making 2 grand a month in 2005 is making 2500$ in 2015 and living as well?
That's one reason Warranties are shortened. The purchase price Pre-Buys the coverage. As companies 'pinch pennies' and are forced into various economies, on thing that can be changed is warranty. Going from 5 years to 3 years will save the company some money.
Look again at my post. My car example clearly shows much better value, more of almost everything in the newer Accord VS the original Acura.
When they make a HT receiver which will drive my panels, will last 15 to 20 years AND still be pretty much fixable, I want to be told. Sorry, my strongly held opinion is that they are simply Planned Obsolescence on the hoof. How many of the 'new features' are really usable and how much is simple marketing. Sound Fields is where I got off the boat. But the advantage for MOVIES is that nobody knows what anything is supposed to sound like, anyway, so the 'sound director' can have his or her way and take it or leave it. For Music? Background in what live music sounds like renders most of that irrelevent. And how much is engineered for beyond stereo? For the typical HT speaker, I'm sure most receivers provide enough power. As soon as the load gets weird, forget it. Low sensitivity and other factors will kill most HT amp sections.
Some of the room tuning stuff would seem to be useful. But people expect it to work miracles when really, when a certain point (listening position) is improved, it would be logical for another place in the room to be made WORSE.
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Post by rbk123 on May 30, 2017 19:48:55 GMT -5
Your car example is just one data point; I gave you a counter single data point with the introduction of Emo amps. You can't prove an "always" from one data point. That article I mentioned listed dozens of different items across the board that not only did not go up in price but went down. Both with and without inflation. If you still insist that *always* prices go up we're going to have to agree to disagree. Whether something has a shorter or longer lifespan has NOTHING to do with prices decreasing or increasing. Whether you have electrostatic panels or not has NOTHING to do with prices *always* increasing. Whether something is better or worse for movies has NOTHING to do with the statement prices *alway* go up. Same for music, room tuning, and all the other noise you seemed to feel to throw into the dispute of "always". The only *always* in life is entropy.
I'm done debating your absolute as it is situational, it isn't everything as you claim; the data is there. I don't want to derail further this thread or have it locked as you keep missing the point.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 30, 2017 20:05:56 GMT -5
I believe it was "Ultra" power amplifier. The U series stood for ultra. I'm not sure what the X-series stands for. X-ell-ent. i may be wrong. mark
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Post by Jim on May 30, 2017 20:50:10 GMT -5
Your car example is just one data point; I gave you a counter single data point with the introduction of Emo amps. You can't prove an "always" from one data point. That article I mentioned listed dozens of different items across the board that not only did not go up in price but went down. Both with and without inflation. If you still insist that *always* prices go up we're going to have to agree to disagree. Whether something has a shorter or longer lifespan has NOTHING to do with prices decreasing or increasing. Whether you have electrostatic panels or not has NOTHING to do with prices *always* increasing. Whether something is better or worse for movies has NOTHING to do with the statement prices *alway* go up. Same for music, room tuning, and all the other noise you seemed to feel to throw into the dispute of "always". The only *always* in life is entropy. I'm done debating your absolute as it is situational, it isn't everything as you claim; the data is there. I don't want to derail further this thread or have it locked as you keep missing the point. I've learned that running into a brick wall gives you the same sensation that you get after arguing with leonski.
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Post by monkumonku on May 30, 2017 21:48:05 GMT -5
Well the way I look at it, it is what it is. Dan's the boss and, well... we can pontificate endlessly about it but in the end someone just has to go into the room, pull Dan out and let him tell you - it is what it is.
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