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Post by frraksurred on Jun 4, 2017 22:34:06 GMT -5
I am on the verge of returning my second MC 700. I'm hoping I've missed something that one of you will be able to point out, because I am at my wits end.
My first MC 700 was defective (wouldn't pass through any HTTP 2.0 signal), My current unit 'works', but it sounds terrible, like its stuck in some funky surround mode and the sub xover is set to 250hz. If I hook up my old UMC 200 everything sound's fine, good even. The minute I hook this thing up it all goes to crap. I've reset everything back to the default setting and ran the Audessey software multiple times. It just seems to get worse each time. So I did another reset and left the EQ on "flat" and set all the speaker distances, ran the test tones, no problems there. The problems come when I try to play ANYTHING from my Oppo or PS4 Pro. Even after setting everything to DTS manually, double checking my xovers and cycling the speaker settings back and forth from "small" to "large". Nothing works, it still sounds like everything has cheap bass in it.
I thought I had things working and sold my UMC 200, so now I have to get this thing working or start over with another company (this purchase has been a fiasco from the start).
My system is in my Sig, if you have any ideas I would appreciate it. Thanks for any help.
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Post by teaman on Jun 5, 2017 0:50:18 GMT -5
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Post by jolaca on Jun 5, 2017 1:40:07 GMT -5
I am on the verge of returning my second MC 700. I'm hoping I've missed something that one of you will be able to point out, because I am at my wits end. My first MC 700 was defective (wouldn't pass through any HTTP 2.0 signal), My current unit 'works', but it sounds terrible, like its stuck in some funky surround mode and the sub xover is set to 250hz. If I hook up my old UMC 200 everything sound's fine, good even. The minute I hook this thing up it all goes to crap. I've reset everything back to the default setting and ran the Audessey software multiple times. It just seems to get worse each time. So I did another reset and left the EQ on "flat" and set all the speaker distances, ran the test tones, no problems there. The problems come when I try to play ANYTHING from my Oppo or PS4 Pro. Even after setting everything to DTS manually, double checking my xovers and cycling the speaker settings back and forth from "small" to "large". Nothing works, it still sounds like everything has cheap bass in it. I thought I had things working and sold my UMC 200, so now I have to get this thing working or start over with another company (this purchase has been a fiasco from the start). My system is in my Sig, if you have any ideas I would appreciate it. Thanks for any help. For me this really sounds to be a defective unit. Even if you have some setting wrong I found it difficult to see it sounding as bad as you're describing. In my case, my previous processor was a quite old but then surely high-end Tag McLaren AV32rDP, this pre had DualSharc DACs and was considered to be one of the best then, in its developing were involved people like Udo Zucker or John Mulcanhy, creator of REW software (that indeed created for the Tag: TMreq EQ a precurssor of REW, and I was really satisfied with its sound but now it was lacking the newer surround formats so I decided to upgrade though I couldn't afford at the moment a higher end model so I went with the MC700. I have to say that when my MC700 was properly equalised, it has exceeded all my expectations, its SQ with good speakers and amps is really awesome. I would like you could listen to mine because I'm sure you wouldn't find it to sound terrible and thus I believe your unit should be defective, I would talk with support. Hope this helps, at least to know it's not a normal thing. |
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Post by vneal on Jun 5, 2017 3:09:40 GMT -5
I would throw in the towel. Not really a video guy (80% audio -20% video) I considered the MC700 but FOR ME I see too many user complaints and feel Emo processor buyers are somewhat of a beta user. I have the UMC 200 in my main system and have had zero problems. A thread with 9 pages of issues & growing is not for me.
Interesting comparison I use the Oppo 105D and bought it to stream from a computer besides CDs & DVDs. I have had replacements on this unit and it has numerous audio dropouts, and freeze issues. I have tried all the remedies but moved on to my Sony Hap streamer with not one issue and with better sound. The Oppo remains for CD DVD duty only
To me an audio component should have zero issues right out of the box and most of the Emotiva processors do not IMHO. As far as amplifiers, preamps, speakers and integrated amps I think Emotiva offers the best bang for your buck. As for processors you as a buyer can make your own decision.
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Post by GTPlus on Jun 5, 2017 7:45:10 GMT -5
If you have not already, I would try updating the firmware. Even if it is the latest version. It's easy and wouldn't hurt to try.
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Post by boomzilla on Jun 5, 2017 8:42:36 GMT -5
Hi frraksurred - Before you write off the MC-700, have you heard your ML speakers sound significantly better with your XPA-5? I ask because some solid state amps do NOT like the low impedance of the Martin-Logan treble panels. Those electrostatic panels can drop to one ohm or less by 20K Hz. Some amps are tolerant - others oscillate. When you were listening to your UMC-200, were you also using the XPA-5? If so, then disregard this post. If not, then try substituting the amp you were using with the UMC-200 and see if that cleans up the sound. |
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Post by rbk123 on Jun 5, 2017 17:13:33 GMT -5
He mentioned "If I hook up my old UMC 200 everything sound's fine, good even." I would interpret that as him still using the XPA-5 and only changing out the processor, but it's definitely worth asking.
Also - Frakk, where are you located? Maybe some other Emophile is in your area and can help you out. Maybe even someone with an MC.
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Post by MusicHead on Jun 5, 2017 21:51:26 GMT -5
I think reflashing the firmware is a very good suggestion. When I got my Fusion 8100 the Zone 2 audio was messed up. The volume would jump from zero to Max with just one click and the sound was all buzzy and distorted.
Reloaded the firmware (which I got from Emo tech support) and the problem was fixed.
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Post by frraksurred on Jun 6, 2017 22:37:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies everyone, and sorry for getting back to this thread so late. Unfortunately this is not the only thing on my plate right now, which is not helping matters. For me this really sounds to be a defective unit. Even if you have some setting wrong I found it difficult to see it sounding as bad as you're describing. I'm leaning the same way. If you have not already, I would try updating the firmware. Even if it is the latest version. It's easy and wouldn't hurt to try. I have tried, but it will not recognize any of my jump drives. I have 3, one 8 yrs old, one 4 and one 1 yrs old. None are recognized. That said, I believe the latest is 2.9 and that is what my current unit is showing. Hi frraksurred - Before you write off the MC-700, have you heard your ML speakers sound significantly better with your XPA-5? I ask because some solid state amps do NOT like the low impedance of the Martin-Logan treble panels. Those electrostatic panels can drop to one ohm or less by 20K Hz. Some amps are tolerant - others oscillate. When you were listening to your UMC-200, were you also using the XPA-5? If so, then disregard this post. If not, then try substituting the amp you were using with the UMC-200 and see if that cleans up the sound. Solid question. Yes I bought the UMC-200 and XPA-5 at the same time, and used them together for roughly 2 years. In that time I thought they sounded great together; it was only at extreme volume levels that I ever heard anomalies. When I was trouble shooting the first MC-700 I swapped it out for the MC-200 a couple times for testings. Both times my issues cleared up when returning to the UMC-200. When the second MC-700 arrived it seemed to work, at least it didn't have the same issue as the first one. It sounded odd, but feature wise it did everything it was supposed to do. I thought the sound would clear up with some calibrating... I was wrong. Nonetheless, I swapped it out for the UMC-200 once before I sold it, and again, it sounded great with the UMC-200, but as if the audio had been stuffed in a suitcase while using the MC-700. He mentioned "If I hook up my old UMC 200 everything sound's fine, good even." I would interpret that as him still using the XPA-5 and only changing out the processor, but it's definitely worth asking. Also - Frakk, where are you located? Maybe some other Emophile is in your area and can help you out. Maybe even someone with an MC. I am in the midwest: Iowa. Cant say I've looked extensively, but I've yet to come across an Emotiva Dealer around here. Local Audiophile boards don't really exist either. Good idea though. -- I've invested about all the time I care to trying to troubleshoot this unit. I'm fairly certain it is also defective. I will be calling Emotiva in the AM to see about a refund. I'm not sure where to go from there. I have looked into other brands but not really found an equivalent in the same price range. My few talks with Emotiva have resulted in a lot of "we're sorry you're having difficulties" but nothing that makes me feel appreciated as a consumer who has spent the better part of 3 months just trying to get a working product. I've had my stages of rage, but I've tried to keep a level head. This is the first product of theirs I've had issues with, and so I've tried to remain understanding. At this point however they'd have to give me an XMC-1 to keep my business. This whole experience from beginning to end has been a nightmare. Twice they lost my info; once while on the waiting list, and then again after they emailed me to say it would ship "this week". After calling 2 weeks later I am told they must have "lost my information". When I did get it, it was defective, but it took 2 weeks of researching, buying new HDMI cables, troubleshooting different settings, etc to figure that out for sure. My living room system has been in disarray or unusable for months. If Emotiva acted as if they gave a crap I could maybe eek out a little more patience, but as it is I'm just done. |
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Post by harlan on Jun 7, 2017 6:56:37 GMT -5
Frraksurred,
Your frustration is completely understandeable. My experience is not as bad as yours and if it was, I would have returned it also. I'm in the position of labeling my experience as marginal. Just good enough to not return it, but I certainly would not recommend the MC700 to anyone.
Your situation brings up a good point though. EMO has a 30 day no questions asked return period. Since they have essentially strung us all along these past 5 months, are we still able to return them? I say strung along because we were promised fixes as well as told it would work but "you have the wrong cables" or it's not the MC700, "its because your other equipment doesn't meet the standard". I think EMO should come out with a public statement regarding this.
I paid $500 for mine last Dec 1st. I still dont have a unit that functions per Emo's Marketing promise. I still don't even have an instruction manual*. On one hand $500 is not a lot of money but on the other hand, it's certainly reasonable to expect it to work as advertised. When I took advantage of the $100 off promotion, at no time was I told I would be a beta tester.
As far as their customer service "excellence" is concerned, that has not been my experience. I called and although they were courteous, they said they would call me back.....they didn't. When they post here which is actually a good idea, they either make what becomes an unfullfilled promise, or have "a matter of fact", condescending feel to the post.
Hey but it sounds good.....
* Hey Dan where is the manual you promised months ago?
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Post by rbk123 on Jun 7, 2017 9:32:19 GMT -5
I'd send it back; looks like you've hit the wall with it. No really great options out there - I'd go used until something else comes along you want to try. You could give Outlaw a try and see how they compare.
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Post by jmilton on Jun 7, 2017 10:19:02 GMT -5
I'd send it back; looks like you've hit the wall with it. No really great options out there - I'd go used until something else comes along you want to try. You could give Outlaw a try and see how they compare. The new Outlaw processor is coming out...soon. As I recall it'll be around $800. It sounds fantastic, too. |
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Post by GTPlus on Jun 8, 2017 7:57:21 GMT -5
Not sure if you have sent it back or not and I get your frustration, but if you have a chance try one more thing. I too have had bad luck getting the Emo-Q to sound good, so I have been running it on "flat" at this point until I can figure out what is going on.
But last night while trying to re-do the emo-q noticed I had what sounded similar to you situation - almost no bass. After messing around a bit I found that my Sub distance was double that of my mains. When I manually adjusted it down closer to the mains, it improved dramatically. Sounded much like a phase issue which is understandable. It's not great but it was better.
It leads me believe there are phase issues with my Emo-Q, but unfortunately when I try to adjust the distances I can't get them to match. For instance - my left is @ 8.6 and my right was 8.7 - when I try to move right down it goes to 8.5 there was no way to get them both the same. FWIW the sub, which is directly in the middle of the mains was at 14.1, when I put it near 8 it sounded better.
So I am still running it with no Emo-Q for now. Curious, does yours sound better on flat?
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Post by harlan on Jun 8, 2017 8:33:32 GMT -5
In other words, another work around, another compromise for a product and/or feature that should just work.
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 9,926
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Post by KeithL on Jun 8, 2017 11:23:15 GMT -5
I'll have to admit that I'm a little confused here..... Assuming you do a factory reset, then DON'T run EmoQ, the MC-700 should be pretty close to dead flat. And, if you set the speakers to large, then there should be no bass management - so no crossovers. At that point, if you manually set the speaker levels and distances, it should sound "just normal" - with excellent audio quality. There's no reason whatsoever for the unit to roll off the bass - or alter it in any way. EmoQ most certainly CAN be confused by certain speakers and certain unusual room acoustics. Also, interestingly, the crossover setting ON THE SUB on the MC-700 SHOULD BE set to 250 hz. This is the proper setting if you want decent bass WHEN PLAYING STEREO RECORDINGS.... and should also work just fine in the other modes. (The LFE channel is always sent to the sub; what gets sent to the sub from the other channels is determined by the crossover settings on each speaker that's set to small.) The MC-700 will always by default play in whatever mode is best at the time based on the signal it's receiving. However, it is limited by what the other unit is sending. For example, if you play a Dolby TrueHD disc, and your Oppo is set to "bitstream", then by default the MC-700 will play it in Dolby TrueHD. And, if you play the same disc, but with the Oppo set to "play as PCM", then the MC-700 will use Dolby PLIIx (because the Oppo is sending it a signal that has already been decoded). Of course, it should show you on the front panel the mode it's chosen. (The control functionality and most of the options on the MC-700 should also be quite similar to those on the UMC-200.) I am on the verge of returning my second MC 700. I'm hoping I've missed something that one of you will be able to point out, because I am at my wits end. My first MC 700 was defective (wouldn't pass through any HTTP 2.0 signal), My current unit 'works', but it sounds terrible, like its stuck in some funky surround mode and the sub xover is set to 250hz. If I hook up my old UMC 200 everything sound's fine, good even. The minute I hook this thing up it all goes to crap. I've reset everything back to the default setting and ran the Audessey software multiple times. It just seems to get worse each time. So I did another reset and left the EQ on "flat" and set all the speaker distances, ran the test tones, no problems there. The problems come when I try to play ANYTHING from my Oppo or PS4 Pro. Even after setting everything to DTS manually, double checking my xovers and cycling the speaker settings back and forth from "small" to "large". Nothing works, it still sounds like everything has cheap bass in it. I thought I had things working and sold my UMC 200, so now I have to get this thing working or start over with another company (this purchase has been a fiasco from the start). My system is in my Sig, if you have any ideas I would appreciate it. Thanks for any help. |
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Post by frraksurred on Jun 9, 2017 18:51:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I'm on mobile and at work, so please forgive the lack of quotes.
Outlaw is definitely a candidate, I'll keep an eye on their upcoming unit.
I think I need to clarify a few things. I'm not suffering from a lack of bass, but an over abundance of murky bass. It sounds like the sub cross-over is set too high and I'm getting vocals in the sub. I'm not, but my other speakers sound that way. Its not clean, tight bass though, it is muffled, muddy, sloppy bass like I added a few cheap in-wall subs or something. It sounds horrific.
Originally I had my fronts set to large (>20hz xover) and my center and surrounds set to small (>80hz) and the Sun's internal xover set to <80hz. I've since experimented with setting the fronts to small as well, but no change. I didnt think about it earlier, but. I also switched to an XBR cable to the sub the same time I bought the MC-700, but I don't know why that would make a difference.
The room this is in, is an odd one. Living room with open Kitchen & Dini g room at the back, plus banister and stairwell off to one side. That said, my old UMC-200 handled it without issue. Regardless, I'm open to suggestions, thanks again for the help.
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Post by rbk123 on Jun 10, 2017 18:46:52 GMT -5
Here's how I have it set up: - no EmoQ - Flat - Speakers set to small, with the crossover set to 90hz -> my speakers are full range Tekton Pendragons - Subwoofer crossover set to 90 hz -> dual subs using a Y cable out from the MC - All crossover slopes set to 24 Try crossover settings, in increments of 10hz, between 60 and 120hz on a track with a lot of tight bass that you know well. I zero'd in to between 80-100 and left it at 90. I always had the sub crossover set to match (the speaker crossover) but I can try increasing it to 250hz per Keith and see (if I get around to it). I fear it'll make it mushy as when I was testing speaker crossover values over 100hz, it was clear the subs were no longer clear.  I had it set similarly with the XMC of mine. |
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Post by frraksurred on Jun 11, 2017 1:02:55 GMT -5
Here's how I have it set up: - no EmoQ - Flat - Speakers set to small, with the crossover set to 90hz -> my speakers are full range Tekton Pendragons - Subwoofer crossover set to 90 hz -> dual subs using a Y cable out from the MC - All crossover slopes set to 24 Try crossover settings, in increments of 10hz, between 60 and 120hz on a track with a lot of tight bass that you know well. I zero'd in to between 80-100 and left it at 90. I always had the sub crossover set to match (the speaker crossover) but I can try increasing it to 250hz per Keith and see (if I get around to it). I fear it'll make it mushy as when I was testing speaker crossover values over 100hz, it was clear the subs were no longer clear. I had it set similarly with the XMC of mine. Good info, thank you. Sounds similar to where I am already (80 instead of 90), but it couldn't hurt to experiment some more. Don't know how long I can have this thing before they refuse to refund. I don't get a lot of time to mess with this stuff, so I've had it for a couple months already. |
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Post by brubacca on Jun 11, 2017 4:57:30 GMT -5
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but its a 30 day return policy, no questions asked. BaseX gear has a 3 year warranty.
From the website:
30-day Money Back Guarantee, Superior Warranty.
Our support doesn't end with your order. We're so confident that you'll love our products, we invite you to try them in your own home for 30 days. If you aren't 100% satisfied for any reason, just call us to return your product and we'll refund your purchase price. Once you're past the 30-day mark, you're covered by our superior warranty—up to 5 years!
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Post by rbk123 on Jun 11, 2017 10:17:11 GMT -5
Good info, thank you. Sounds similar to where I am already (80 instead of 90), but it couldn't hurt to experiment some more. Don't know how long I can have this thing before they refuse to refund. I don't get a lot of time to mess with this stuff, so I've had it for a couple months already. 1 other thing - go into Test tones and bump up the dbs on the sub. Try 3-6. If your bass is tight, that will help. |
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