Chris
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Post by Chris on Aug 3, 2017 9:50:10 GMT -5
Hi, I know this might strike some as retrograde, but I wonder if it would benefit Emotiva and their customers to create an Audio only HT processor platform? For many years until standards started to gel, I used an all analog mutli-channel preamp from McCormack that worked great. I just ran all the video straight to the TV. With all the issues of upgrading to the latest HDMI standards, HDR, 4k, etc., I wondering if it may be time to revisit things and maybe concentrate on Audio which has always been Emotiva's forte and strength? In my case, I no longer run any video through my XMC-1. Everything goes straight to my 2016 Samsung UHD 4K TV. I have an Oppo 203 that thankfully has two HDMI outputs so I can send the video direct to the TV and the audio stream to the XMC-1. My Fios cable box, Roku 4K, and Smart TV Apps audio go straight to the TV and I use an optical return to the XMC-1 for the audio. I was using ARC but a recent Samsung update "borked" ARC so it no longer works with the XMC-1. The pros to an audio only processor would be: - Simpler since it would be just audio
- Potentially cheaper if video circuitry was removed
- Potentially smaller without video
- Potentially updated more quickly with new audio standards
- Maybe include audio streaming features (Tidal, DNLA, Squeezebox (I know I am stretching on this one), et al)?
The cons: - Lose the on-screen display (something that doesn't matter much to me)
- All in one input switching (I handle this with my Harmony Hub remote)
- Other things?
I appears to me that Emotiva has already anticipated this idea since many of their current products are very modularized (Amp modules, removable video boards). Basically, I am recommending a processor that is built like a Computer PC with slots for plugin parts as needed. This has only been toyed with in the Audio industry since no standards were ever developed compared to the broad standardization of the PC Industry. Welcome your thoughts. -CB |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Aug 3, 2017 10:46:25 GMT -5
Con: no auto lip-sync.
Russ
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Aug 3, 2017 11:01:27 GMT -5
...and no HD audio from blurays with proper bass management and room correction.
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Post by garbulky on Aug 3, 2017 11:04:10 GMT -5
The Emotiva stuff doesn't really do much video. It's kind of a passthrough with an OSD.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Aug 3, 2017 11:07:32 GMT -5
I've been doing this for years because the DMC-1 doesn't have HDMI capabilities. (They offered an external HDMI switch at the time but I told them to not bother because I have so few input devices and the TV/Monitor was fine.) And yes, there is no auto-Lip Sync which is mostly okay. I've only had one noticeable problem on one disc (the 2012 remake of Total Recall) where the audio did slowly drift out of sync (up to 1s across ~30 minutes of play before I would stop and restart the disc). So, it's "doable".
The other thing you'd miss of course are on-screen menus. But those are mostly not necessary.
All in all, I think that the state of engineering with HDMI is much further along than it was way back in 2007 when I bought the DMC-1. Now devices can perform integrated HDMI switching well even if they don't intrude on the signal to add on-screen overlay menus, etc. while extracting audio signals and timing information.
We do have the recently announced HDMI 2.1 definition, but I think that's at least a year away from seeing production silicon and more likely two years[1]. For right now, HDMI 2.0b is fine for now and I expect that all of Emotiva's products which incorporate HDMI I/O should work fine with the 2.0b specification.
Casey
[1] The HDMI standards body got a "bit" aggressive in what they decided to shoot for in terms of bandwidth. Unfortunately they weren't nearly so adventurous in terms of defining a much better connector. (sigh)
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Aug 3, 2017 11:36:02 GMT -5
...and no HD audio from blurays with proper bass management and room correction. I don't understand this since I have this with my Oppo Blu-ray which has two HDMI outs. One Video and the Audio. I get all the HD audio formats direct. The optical audio from TV back to the XMC-1 has all the Dirac processing as well? |
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doc1963
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Post by doc1963 on Aug 3, 2017 11:59:17 GMT -5
...and no HD audio from blurays with proper bass management and room correction. I don't understand this since I have this with my Oppo Blu-ray which has two HDMI outs. One Video and the Audio. I get all the HD audio formats direct. The optical audio from TV back to the XMC-1 has all the Dirac processing as well? The dedicated HDMI "Audio" output from the Oppo (or any other Blu-ray player) actually does carry a video signal along with the audio bitstream. There's always a 1080p "black" video signal sent along with the audio data. That's why (when you switch to that input on your processor) the input locks and the screen shows as "black". So, if your going to need to incorporate an HDMI board into a product for audio processing, it may as well switch the video signal as well. In doing so, any audio "sync" issues can easily be addressed at the point where they should be. Moreover, I also like the convenience of having 6-8 source components requiring only one cable each and, in turn, the simplicity of requiring only one HDMI cable to the display. I do get your point, however, as I'm personally beginning to view processors as a " disposable commodity". When I purchased my XMC-1, I fully intended to utilize it as a "one box" solution. Now, my views on this has changed and I've since gravitated back to a "hybrid" system (2ch/7ch using HT Bypass). Technology moves too quickly and Emotiva's development cycle (even for "upgrades") cannot keep pace. I do believe that, for HT purposes, audio processing and video switching should be handled within the same box, but I now also believe that I don't need to spend anywhere near $5,000 on a box that does this...  |
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Aug 3, 2017 12:02:34 GMT -5
...and no HD audio from blurays with proper bass management and room correction. I don't understand this since I have this with my Oppo Blu-ray which has two HDMI outs. One Video and the Audio. I get all the HD audio formats direct. The optical audio from TV back to the XMC-1 has all the Dirac processing as well? The optical audio is limited and cannot pass the latest uncompressed codecs like True HD and DTS MA. |
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Aug 3, 2017 12:05:47 GMT -5
I don't understand this since I have this with my Oppo Blu-ray which has two HDMI outs. One Video and the Audio. I get all the HD audio formats direct. The optical audio from TV back to the XMC-1 has all the Dirac processing as well? The optical audio is limited and cannot pass the latest uncompressed codecs like True HD and DTS MA. I know this but no streaming video service or my cable tv box are currently streaming HD Audio codecs. Usually some form of Dolby Digital is the norm which works fine over optical. -CB |
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Post by foggy1956 on Aug 3, 2017 12:07:41 GMT -5
I don't understand this since I have this with my Oppo Blu-ray which has two HDMI outs. One Video and the Audio. I get all the HD audio formats direct. The optical audio from TV back to the XMC-1 has all the Dirac processing as well? The optical audio is limited and cannot pass the latest uncompressed codecs like True HD and DTS MA. Are there any TV's that push the uncompressed codecs? Just curious. |
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Aug 3, 2017 12:16:11 GMT -5
The optical audio is limited and cannot pass the latest uncompressed codecs like True HD and DTS MA. Are there any TV's that push the uncompressed codecs? Just curious. My understanding is that Toslink is incapable of that. Not sure if ARC is capable. |
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Post by cwt on Aug 3, 2017 13:17:16 GMT -5
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Post by rbk123 on Aug 3, 2017 14:38:39 GMT -5
...and no HD audio from blurays with proper bass management and room correction. I don't understand this since I have this with my Oppo Blu-ray which has two HDMI outs. One Video and the Audio. I didn't get it either. I'm guessing he's referencing not all BR/4k players (true for BR, but no idea on 4K players) have dual HDMI's out like your OPPO. |
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on Aug 3, 2017 14:59:56 GMT -5
I think the problem you face with this is getting other manufacturers on board. More and more source components are stripping out available output connections and going with a single HDMI. Analog specifically is almost non-existent on many players (especially streaming devices) and greatly reduces on cable/sat boxes.
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Post by Gary Cook on Aug 3, 2017 16:08:18 GMT -5
In my set up the sources live in the rack with the UMC-200 and the TV is 6 metres away. So multiple short HDMI cables in the rack and only one long HDMI cable from the UMC-200 to the TV. If the UMC-200 only handled audio I'd still need the short HDMI cables plus I'd need multiple 6 metre long HDMI cables for the video. The cable box, ATV4 and the Panasonic BD player all only have one HDMI output. So I would need at least a 3 X HDMI splitters. That's a lot of extra junk behind what is already a very crowded rack, using not the best of connectors, many times more than I have right now. I have no idea how the various HDCP standards would handle that, simultaneously handshaking with 2 devices. Pretty much guarantee that the cable box wouldn't, they are the worst offenders for HDMI/HDCP handshaking and audio drop outs.
On balance I'll pass thanks and just continue to look for the sweet spot in performance versus price versus life in processors.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 3, 2017 17:45:19 GMT -5
To build the the thing it would have to sell and sell it won't ....(no demand) me thinks.
Bill
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Post by RichGuy on Aug 3, 2017 20:12:10 GMT -5
There is little video done in Emotiva HT processors anyway, what video goes in goes out unmodified except for the ability to display menus etc. there is no processing of the video.
There really is no market for an audio only HT processor since HT is both audio and video, very few people would want one without the other. Also as previously stated without hdmi there would be no HD audio which most people would find a huge audio downgrade.
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Post by cwt on Aug 4, 2017 3:18:14 GMT -5
As Gary said its feasible only with a separate switch box for many systems . My JVC 7000 Projector only has 2 hdmi2.0a inputs and like many I run a 2nd panel for fta etc tv. This was tried by Cary with the 11/a with a separate video processor/ switcher , too expensive with its dvdo deinterlacing etc so I bought a matrix switcher instead  Even then the 11a still had 2 in 1 out hdmi1.3 for a simple system  |
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Maybe not 
