donrua
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 9
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Post by donrua on Nov 5, 2017 18:33:49 GMT -5
I started my passion with hi-fi in the mid 70's. I had gear like b&o, luxman amps, nakamichi, teac decks, Akai reel to reel, Kef 103.2, later 105.4 speakers, thoren table, formula 4 arm and Shure mark V Cartridge, Stax headphone. Then I left home to come to Canada. Never had a chance to get back into it. I missed it a lot. Used to have 4-500 LPs, spent 10 minutes to pick a record, another 5 minutes to clean and set it up. Ran to my spot to listen for a few minutes. Then all over again lol. Finally I bought a pair of AG 3.5 in 2014, a set of AG reference surround and a centre. I came across with this article about how good emotiva was. I bought XPA-5 and the Sherbourn PT 7030 7 channel pre/pro. Thought would go with the digital route with lossless format (I am a complete rookie after 40 years). Problems started - Sherbourn didn't come with a manual. I read something like "if u need a manual u better get a professional to do everything for you ..." At that point I thought maybe I should have invested in a used bema m3 lol. My space in the basement is far from OK much less good, "sorta" rectangular shape with hall way to laundry room on one side, stairwell going up on the other side, a small bedroom on the third side with gun and wine cabinets in front of it. basically it's a half finished basement with concrete floor, no ceiling but all dry walled. I use monoprice XLR connect cables, 12 guage speaker wires. I hooked everything up without any sonic adjustment. Back in the days we always played everything FLAT. Even if I had to I wouldn't know how to play around with all this high tech buttons and switches lol. A few days after the gear arrived I finally got some sound. It was OK but far from my old system 40 years ago much less the SUPERB QUALITY I was led to believe. I knew my inability and lack of modern techniques were most of my problems. I could have bought the KEF R900's and the Marantz pre/pro from a neighbourhood stereo shop for $10,000CAD. Now I spent more money and didn't know how to set it up. The 3.5 were barely delivering any bass. For a quick fix, I bought a 800 watt mirage Sub to lie to my ears. I lost interest, gave up and walked away for 3 years. Lately I am downstairs messing with it again. Took me a few days to re-learn how to turn everything on again. I would hate to admit a defeat to my passion and sell everything for cheap. Or I should give it another shot. First, I gotta re-learn new gear, concepts, operating procedures, pricing etc. Back in the days i hung out in high end stereo shops, helped them move gear around for demo, in return these old guys showed me stuff. Now I am learning online. Can't believe everything we read, right? I am reading up how to treat my space. Owens Corning 703 are no where to be found in Canada OUCH!!!! A couple of sites sell the entire sound treatment package for $5000-$8000. WOW, REALLY??? My biggest complaint, the 3.5's are not producing low end. Someone suggested AG SA amp. First, can't find it. Second, other gurus said just feed THE 3.5's with a lot of clean power and forget about the sub amp. Another problem, I am running the 5-channel XPA-5 power amp with a 7-channel SHERBORN pre. There is hardly any surround coming out of my back AG Reference Surround. Damn, my head is spinning now lol. Am i missing a few steps in hooking up therefore getting inferior sound? I prefer no extra colouration, just the way it was recorded. Should I continue with emotiva big power amps, like a set of mono XPA-1's, for the main and keep the XPA-5 for surround? Or should I get something like a Spectron, that Gallo used for demo, or Axiom 1500? Should I get one Big amp for speaker main in? Or another amp to feed the second coil? I just got married last year, for the first time, and started a new business 2 months ago, I would be more cautious this time around in buying gear.without knowing they will work with my silly inability. Used gear should be fine? $1000-$3000 is automatic. Over that I will have to think about it. I will remodel my basement to turn it into a listening room. That should improve a of right there. Any advice, from anybody, would be appreciated. I feel like Carlos santana asking for help to plug in a guitar lol.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 5, 2017 18:59:35 GMT -5
So you're talking about anthony Gallo speakers I own the XPA-1 gen 2 and I wouldn't get any of the other amps you mentioned over it. HOWEVER, you mentioned you are not thrilled with the XPA-5. If you are not thrilled, you won't be thrilled with just an amp change. You can't usually fix problems by changing electronics. The first and most important thing is.....are you using a digital connection to your sherbourn? Like an SPDIF or optical or HDMI cable? If not, that's your first issue. The second is that your bass management might be wonky. Your 3.5's might be set to small. Which means that the sherbourn takes all the bass and sends it to a separate subwoofer (which you may not have). To restore the bass set the speakers to LARGE. Next DISABLE any room correction. Next - check your Athoy Gallos. Don't they have a built in subwoofer? You may not have set it up correctly at the speaker or blended it right. Then try playing around with your speaker positioning. Bring them away from the walls a bit. Try spacing them out. Try toeing them in to various amounts. Try buying some room treatments. I bought one and put it behid my head level on the wall. If those things don't really rock your boat, I think you may simply like the old school stuff better. Nothing wrong with that! I myself really liked the amps that Emotiva made and I made my way up the ladder and bought a set of XPA-1's. But I wouldn't reccomed that route for ya. Or any amp upgrades for that matter.
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Post by creimes on Nov 5, 2017 19:28:17 GMT -5
With the PT-7030 and XPA-5 you should experience great sound, I had that exact setup and it was wonderful, if your unfamiliar with menus on the new gear it can be frustrating.
Where are you residing in Canada, maybe someone local can swing by to lend a helping hand, I know I would but I doubt your local to me as I'm in Brandon, Manitoba lol
Chad
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Post by ÈlTwo on Nov 5, 2017 23:28:33 GMT -5
Post some pics of how your gear is hooked up
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Post by cwmcobra on Nov 6, 2017 7:46:26 GMT -5
I have a PDF of the manual for the PT-7030, but it's too large to post here. If you PM your email address I'll send it to you for reference.
Cheers!
Chuck
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Post by 405x5 on Nov 6, 2017 8:26:45 GMT -5
That’s an interesting dilemma you have. I mean, many of us here are around the same age (roughly) as you, but of course, the difference is, we were never away from the sport. Therefore, we’ve been evolving with the technology while you were away.
The new technologies may NOT be for you. Loads of vinyl nuts here that spin records in regular stereo and are wild for it. I think if I were you, I would pick up where you left off with gear similar to what you had back then, and build on that experience. I was a stereo guy for around 30 years until I went multi channel and subwoofing in 2001.
Bill
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Post by leonski on Nov 12, 2017 2:48:18 GMT -5
405 might be on to something. What ARE your goals? When you dropped out the first time, Quadraphonic MIGHT have been around. Certainly nothing like 5.1 on UP.
Those Gallos properly set up should provide good bass. PROPERLY set up is key. Start maybe by swapping them left / right. I think the woofers should point 'in' but I'm not certain of that.
Is your goal Music or HT? If music? A 3 channel with 'center' is good. Many modern preamps are 2.1 which means they include some form of Bass Management. My Parasound P5 is one such.
I still have my Tandberg R2R in a closet. Not been run for nearly 30 years.
Try to make a clear statement of Goals and you'll get better help......
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donrua
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 9
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Post by donrua on Nov 17, 2017 19:31:07 GMT -5
OH NOOOOOO. Just typed all afternoon and lost it all. re-typing .. stupid me!!!
First off, thank you ever so much for the kind reply and useful/insightful advice. I am confident I will find my way to a superb sounding system.
Pls allow me to answer one chap at a time:
Garbulky: - all HDMI cables from cable box, DVD, Laptop etc. - I am using my old HP Laptop to play Lossless music I purchased via VLM media player. I read that is supposed to be playing back the most data albeit not too lively. - all speakers were set to LARGE but frequency set at 100. I turned them down to 40Hz, some bass improvement but far from a separate subwoofer. - I don't know if I am expecting too much. The XPA-5 and the AG 3.5's do give me clean, clear music with good imaging and sound stage. With the help of a subwoofer it actually sounds good. But ... I paid $10,000CAD for the speakers, thought be nice to use without any external sub. - Disable room correction - pls elaborate (feeling stupid here) - AG
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donrua
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 9
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Post by donrua on Nov 17, 2017 20:37:47 GMT -5
OH NOOOOOO. Just typed all afternoon and lost it all. re-typing .. stupid me!!!
First off, thank you ever so much for the kind reply and useful/insightful advice. I am confident I will find my way to a superb sounding system.
Pls allow me to answer one chap at a time:
Garbulky: - all HDMI cables from cable box, DVD, Laptop etc. - I am using my old HP Laptop to play Lossless music I purchased via VLM media player. I read that is supposed to be playing back the most data albeit not too lively. - all speakers were set to LARGE but frequency set at 100. I turned them down to 40Hz, some bass improvement but far from a separate subwoofer. - I don't know if I am expecting too much. The XPA-5 and the AG 3.5's do give me clean, clear music with good imaging and sound stage. With the help of a subwoofer it actually sounds good. But ... I paid $10,000CAD for the speakers, thought be nice to use without any external sub. - Disable room correction - pls elaborate (feeling stupid here) - speakers have 2 input, no other switch. 1 for full spectrum input and 1 for Sub Amp input to drive the internal bass woofer. I am using the former. - AG manual recommends to reverse polarity after breaking in of speakers. don't know this concept, haven't don't it. could that be the problem? pls comment. - am moving speakers around and building sound boards, bass traps and diffusers. nonetheless, I just wanna see the bass unit moving a whole lot more and producing good low frequency without the aid of an external sub. - I was gonna TRY a pair of XPA-1's. doubling power is only increasing sound level around 10%, just not sure if this will PUMP my bass unit on my AG's. I also found a XPA-3 Gen 1 (never been open or played) for $750CAD. Should I get it since I will need 2 more channels to make 7.1? - AG designed this speakers with a sub amp in mind. But they discontinued the product and Gallo himself demo 3.5's WITHOUT any sub amp. Should I get sub amp? pls comment.
Chad: you said you had the same set up. NO MORE? I live in regina. So its not too bad. If you still have your gear I am more than willing to drive there to see how you hook everything up. I do like the way it sounds, just NOT enough bass. Mind you, I was used to KEF speakers. Brits never big on bass. Perhaps my ears have been spoiled/cheated by the artificial "BOOM BOOM" sound from a cheap little $500 subwoofer. Pls comment.
EITwo: what a good idea to post my hook up, but HOW? (feeling stupid again). Also how do I find my way back to this thread without going thru everything from home page?
Chuck: Thanx for the offer. I downloaded a copy and been learning how to navigate using the remote. Never knew how to do that. The unit didn't come with user manual. I read somewhere that if I needed manual for hooking up I'd best hire a pro to do it. I called a local high end shop. owner HUNG UP on me. Sure I didn't give him the business. But had he helped me out, I would have traded everything in for a similar system that is proven working in his demo room.
Leonski: I don't know my own goals. Maybe you can help me to define. I read a cnet article about this AG 3.5's being one of the top 10 speakers in the world. I then looked at pricing and availability. A shop in San Fran was selling the only remaining NEW pair. No paypal and never bought online before, I tried but couldn't get it done. Next day I continued my effort not because I wanted the speakers, but because I never quit anything half way thru. Speakers were sold. I was PISSED .. only if someone would give me another chance. Following day got a note from the San Fran merchant, stating I bought their speakers and looking for payment. I bought them pronto this time. The happiest $10,000 I ever spent. After that I bought the matching set of AG Reference Surround and Centre speakers. Now I realized, if I wanted to match the performance of the speakers (so I read), it would have been cheaper to buy a 2 year told Bema M3 (including room renovation). WOW, Tandberg Reel to Reel, that brings back memory. I had Akai before. You should have it front and centre with your system, working or not. I would, cos I am a sentimental fool lol.
many thanx guys. look forward to your reply/comments.
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Post by leonski on Nov 17, 2017 20:59:49 GMT -5
If you don't know your own goals, you are doomed to wander the HiFi Desert forever. Are you using or did you purchase the Gallo EQ and 2nd amp for the 2nd woofer voice coil? That's gonna get you to a very robust LF output which better satisfy. www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/gallo-acoustics-reference-35-loudspeaker-tas-209/Your HOMEWORK assignment is to go to the CARDAS website and look up room setup. Go to the Gallo website and see if any setup helps exist for the 3.5s.
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Post by creimes on Nov 17, 2017 21:09:25 GMT -5
OH NOOOOOO. Just typed all afternoon and lost it all. re-typing .. stupid me!!! First off, thank you ever so much for the kind reply and useful/insightful advice. I am confident I will find my way to a superb sounding system. Pls allow me to answer one chap at a time: Chad: you said you had the same set up. NO MORE? I live in regina. So its not too bad. If you still have your gear I am more than willing to drive there to see how you hook everything up. I do like the way it sounds, just NOT enough bass. Mind you, I was used to KEF speakers. Brits never big on bass. Perhaps my ears have been spoiled/cheated by the artificial "BOOM BOOM" sound from a cheap little $500 subwoofer. Pls comment. Hey Don, I no longer have the PT-7030 as I sold it a few years back to move up to the XMC-1, setting up a home theater aka surround sound system can be daunting and takes lots of effort and time, I run a 5.2 setup using three Chane A5rx-c towers across the front with two IXL-18 subs and my rear surrounds are Emotiva UAC-8.2 ceiling speakers, it's not a dedicated room but it does what I need it to and for me sounds really really good but then again I've never owned really expensive gear so I don't know if I am missing anything or not haha. I have a fellow employee who has Gallo speakers though I'm not sure which ones I could ask him of any setup tips, he isn't local as he lives around Winnipeg but I'm sure he still has them. Currently I am running my Oppo 103 direct into my Sherbourn 7 channel amp as I'm waiting on delivery of a used UMC-200 I purchased from a guy in Calgary, music has always been a passion of mine but I love watching movies on my 100" projection screen haha. About subwoofers, if they are not setup properly in the optimal spot or no acoustic panels or bass traps are used or no room correction either manual or auto has been applied boomy bass will be a huge sound killer, I get pretty high 40hz peaks in my room so I have my iNuke6000DSP amp toning that frequency down. The XMC-1 for me in my room has been the best sq I have achieved to date, Dirac works really well leveling out the frequencies peaks and nulls, I have heard really good things about Anthems ARC room correction as well, when I have the UMC-200 setup in my system I will be attempting to run Room EQ Wizard on my laptop and then adjusting the UMC-200's internal PEQ settings, it's easier said then done running the software properly haha. If you are ever interested in driving on down to my place for a listen you are more than welcome to, just be warned I have a small house and two kids haha Here are some links to photo albums of mine on Flickr www.flickr.com/gp/creimes750/c57Q08www.flickr.com/gp/creimes750/G963oiCheers, Chad
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donrua
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 9
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Post by donrua on Nov 18, 2017 20:29:58 GMT -5
Lost my typing again ...
thanks for the reply and input, I read up on everything you suggested and equipment Chad has listed. hope my answer will make some sense.
Leonski: - Thank you for the home work. according to the Cardas room setup chart, my basement is kinda like the Dia F - horizontal pentagon room. middle of left side wall is a hall way to laundry room; bottom of left side wall is the 5th side angle out as the entrance of my basement bedroom. The backwall right behind my seating position are two glass doors of my wine cabinet (bad); the right bottom corner is the stairway going upstairs, otherwise, it is a horizontally long rectangular room. - put 6 sound absorbers (16' x 48' x 3" safe and sound insulation in a 6" box for space behind insulation) on first reflective surfaces, one on each sidewall, two on ceiling and two behind me. 2 stacks of safe & sound 16" x 16" triangular bass traps on front corners (floor to ceiling). Diffusers is next project. - read the AG roundsound article. might have read it before. I am getting everything I am supposed to be getting except for the thin bass. Will write Steve Guttenberg of Cnet for advice. Already wrote Gallo Acoustic for help. - my goals - here we go - I want to have a system that can give me HI FI listening experience as well as Boom Boom surround movie/concert experience. Since movie sound signals are mostly artificial, I think I would put preference on Hi Fi sound reproduction of acoustic instruments. I would love to have a system that can easily tell the difference between hand claps and rain fall.
Chad: I love your set up. In fact, if possible, I will bring my speakers to your place, set it up, if they sound good, I will just get the same Sherbourn Monster 7-channel power amp. For now, pls follow up with your colleague how he/she set up his/her AG 3.5's. I might just take my speakers to a local shop to find out if it is my false expectation, speaker issues, or amp issues.
keep the comment coming pls. I am learning lots.
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Post by leonski on Nov 19, 2017 13:45:19 GMT -5
You know that Gallo has another amp with crossover intended for the 2nd voice coil of the 3.5s woofer. If you are not using such a setup, which includeds an actived crossover, you are probably not getting all the bass you desire. www.roundsound.com/manuals/reference-sa-manual.pdfThis is quite unlike ANY other speaker. I only became aware of it because a buddy, many years ago, purchased a set of the Gallo speakers, had s similar problem THAN went this route.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 19, 2017 14:19:24 GMT -5
I think that something is setup wrong . you should be getting wowed. no upgrade needed.
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Post by leonski on Nov 19, 2017 15:41:31 GMT -5
Are woofers facing IN (together) or OUT?
Gar is right.
Setup is KEY. But still and all, the 2nd VC and amp buys you nearly 1 octave of bass. Not a trivial help.
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