niadh0
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 3
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Post by niadh0 on Nov 6, 2017 22:32:21 GMT -5
I have a question regarding what type of emotita amp options will support my system. I have Marantz AV8802A pre-amp and the following speakers in a 13.2 setup (11.2, either front wide channels or rear high channels, would be supported by the Marantz at any given time depending on the type of signal).
(1) PSB Stratus GOLDi Pair Main Towers - rated at 4ohms 300Watts (2) PSB Stratus SILVER Pair Surround Towers - rated at 4ohms 250 Watts (3) PSB STRATUS MINI Pair Surround BACK Bookshelf - rated at 4ohms 250 Watts (4) PSB Stratus C6i Center rated at 8 ohms 250 Watts (-or- KLIPSCH RF82 Centre - rated at 8ohms 150W)
(5) PSB Image 2B Front High Pair - rated at 6 ohms 100 Watts (6) PSB Image 2B Rear High Pair - rated at 6 ohms (4minimal) 100 Watts (7) PSB Image 1B Front Wide Pair - rated at 6 ohms (4minimal) 80 Watts
(8) PSB Subsonic 3i subwoofer-1 (9) PSB Subsonic 7 subwoofer-2
******* OPTION A (two units - PRE BUILT by Emotiva)
- Unit 1=> XPA-7 to drive 7 mono modules, will drive #1 to #4 above - Unit 2=> XPS-7 to drive 7 mono modules, will drive #5 to #7 above
******* OPTION B (two units - BUID your own) goes as follows…
Unit 1 with Seven MONO Modules @ 300W/Channel at 4ohms => Two mono modules for the Front L+R => Two mono modules for the Surround L+R => Two mono modules for the Surround Back L+R => One mono modules for the Center
Unit 2 with 3 STEREO Modules @100w/Channel at 8ohms => One STEREO module for the FRONT WIDE L+R => One STEREO module for the FRONT HIGH L+R => One STEREO module for the REAR HIGH L+R
******
What are you opinions. Is there a better option? Please help. Thanks.
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Post by leonski on Nov 7, 2017 2:05:22 GMT -5
I'd START with getting an electrician out there to run a PAIR of 20 amp circuits.
Speakers don't have 'watts'. There are several ways to 'rate' this so without being specified by the manufacturer, it's a worthless number.
As for the rest? A 'module' might put out 300 watts when run alone. Given power line limitations, I'd derate the whole thing 20% or more. Even at it's MOST efficient power, about 1/2 of input power ends up as HEAT. The new 'G' or 'H' configurations might give you a couple points. But even running 5 watts continuous per speaker is LOUD and than factor in some kind of 'crest factor' for loud peaks. 100 watts is about 13db.
Somewhat more important than the marketing number 'watts' would be a measured SENSITIVITY. That will kind of give you an idea of loudness potential. Most real measures I've read are within a db or so of manufacturers numbers so can provide a reasonable starting point, if that's the way you want to go.
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niadh0
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 3
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Post by niadh0 on Nov 7, 2017 7:44:36 GMT -5
thanks,
what I gathered in your response is that the input current coming at the speaker terminals may not be what the amp is rated to produce and therefore watts capacity is not the right unit of measure. is that right? are you proposing that toking at the DB numbers may be a better input for you t recommend any amp unit for my speakers?
as for the mfg advertised numbers decibels, here they are (First number is for Anechoic Chamber , second number is for Typical Listening Room, in db)
(1) PSB Stratus GOLDi Pair Main Towers - rated 88/90 db (2) PSB Stratus SILVER Pair Surround Towers - rated 89/91 db (3) PSB STRATUS MINI Pair Surround BACK Bookshelf - rated 86/88 db (4) PSB Stratus C6i Center - rated 91/93 db
(5) PSB Image 2B Front High Pair - rated 89/91 db (6) PSB Image 2B Rear High Pair - rated 89/91 db (7) PSB Image 1B Front Wide Pair - rated 89/91 db
Or did I completely not understand your comments?
thanks,
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Post by pknaz on Nov 7, 2017 8:08:36 GMT -5
The "number" of watts the amplifier puts out is determined by how much you turn up the "volume" on your pre-amp. How loud you can safely play content is determined first by how much power your amp can put out, and second by two factors: a) the thermal capacity of the drivers in your speakers and b) the xmax of your speakers (how far they travel inward and outward)
I think what Leonski was getting at, is this: your main speakers are 88db sensative, that means that with a single (1) watt of power, they will play at 88db, which is quite loud. Each time you double the number of watts, the SPL (how loud the content is) goes up by 3db (or close enough). This would mean that you would only need about 16 watts of power to reach roughly 100db, which is well into permanent hearing loss territory.
To determine how much amplifier power you need, I recommend you pick a target SPL level you want to be capable of driving without clipping your amp (Usually the first thing to blow a speaker is amp clip). Amp clip is when you're asking your amplifier to play your speakers louder (requires more watts of power) than what the amplifier is capable of delivering. So for instance, if you wanted to be able to play music/movies at say 105db, you may want to look for 150+ watts of power to reach that number, and then double that for "headroom" of 3db or 300watts of amplifier power.
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Post by rbk123 on Nov 7, 2017 8:56:53 GMT -5
PK translated Leon correctly. Your speakers are reasonably efficient so your options are unlimited. If it were me and based on your above thoughts (assuming older used Emo gear is not an option) I would: - get the highest quality amp for your mains (and arguably your center): -XPA2/XPA with 2 mono modules OR, XPA3/XPA with 3 mono modules - get one chassis with Emo's dual cards for the remaining 10 channels (75W I believe), or <- this will be more 'tidy' and less clutter - 2 BasX 5 channel chassis (either 5 channel; whichever you prefer)
You won't hear a diff beyond the mains whether you have 10 Krell monoblocks or 2 A-500's - the info and speaker quality just isn't there, so like pk/leon said, the only concern would be clipping. Save the amp $$ and use it for room treatments or even better speakers or a better processor.
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Post by leonski on Nov 7, 2017 12:35:28 GMT -5
thanks, what I gathered in your response is that the input current coming at the speaker terminals may not be what the amp is rated to produce and therefore watts capacity is not the right unit of measure. is that right? are you proposing that toking at the DB numbers may be a better input for you t recommend any amp unit for my speakers? as for the mfg advertised numbers decibels, here they are (First number is for Anechoic Chamber , second number is for Typical Listening Room, in db) (1) PSB Stratus GOLDi Pair Main Towers - rated 88/90 db (2) PSB Stratus SILVER Pair Surround Towers - rated 89/91 db (3) PSB STRATUS MINI Pair Surround BACK Bookshelf - rated 86/88 db (4) PSB Stratus C6i Center - rated 91/93 db (5) PSB Image 2B Front High Pair - rated 89/91 db (6) PSB Image 2B Rear High Pair - rated 89/91 db (7) PSB Image 1B Front Wide Pair - rated 89/91 db Or did I completely not understand your comments? thanks, Amplifiers generally aren't rated to have 'amps', either. Rather, they are rated into a Resistor, the most simple and benign electrical load. You can use Ohms Law given impedance and Watts to determine amps and volts! But this starts to get REALLY wound around the axle. And I'm not sure it's very helpful. You can do it as an exercise and see which way the numbers go as OTHER parameters change. And the Magnitude of such changes. My amps have a manufacturers 'rating' of like 45 amps peak current. Ignore it. Real speakers such as you and everyone else have are NOT resistors. They alternately look like a capacitor or inductor TO the partnering amp at various frequencies. Only at that point where a speaker 'changes' from being inductive to capacitive or reverse, does a speaker behave as a resistor. Now the fun part: Amplifiers, even those with the SAME power rating @8ohms (for example) will differ (sometimes) SubStantially in the ability to drive other than pure resistors making heat. As a speaker looks progressively MORE like a capacitor or inductor, the amp actually delivers less power. Or most do, anyway. The most Robust amps will handle the worst loads. Google? Power Factor. For your mainly HT stuff? Unless the Designer was out-to-lunch for most of the design and test process, they won't be too bad as a 'reactive' load. HT receivers and such are Notoriously Incapable of driving the worst of the available speakers. What good would a popular priced speaker be if it required some exotic amplifier? Speakers rated around the 90db level are fairly sensitive. And as HT speakers, generally won't present a difficult load to the amp. What ever you end up with, just make sure you have a good deal of clean power for it. A couple dedicated circuits are in your future. Call the Electrician.
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Post by leonski on Nov 7, 2017 20:25:26 GMT -5
The "number" of watts the amplifier puts out is determined by how much you turn up the "volume" on your pre-amp. How loud you can safely play content is determined first by how much power your amp can put out, and second by two factors: a) the thermal capacity of the drivers in your speakers and b) the xmax of your speakers (how far they travel inward and outward) I think what Leonski was getting at, is this: your main speakers are 88db sensative, that means that with a single (1) watt of power, they will play at 88db, which is quite loud. Each time you double the number of watts, the SPL (how loud the content is) goes up by 3db (or close enough). This would mean that you would only need about 16 watts of power to reach roughly 100db, which is well into permanent hearing loss territory. To determine how much amplifier power you need, I recommend you pick a target SPL level you want to be capable of driving without clipping your amp (Usually the first thing to blow a speaker is amp clip). Amp clip is when you're asking your amplifier to play your speakers louder (requires more watts of power) than what the amplifier is capable of delivering. So for instance, if you wanted to be able to play music/movies at say 105db, you may want to look for 150+ watts of power to reach that number, and then double that for "headroom" of 3db or 300watts of amplifier power. In general, for MUSIC, I deal with a 10db or 20db 'headroom' or 'crest' factor. 10db is 10x the power which makes it easy. 20db is 100x the power and that's when it starts to get weird. An 89db sensitive speaker (in-room) @95db will need a pretty big bump for 105db peaks. I don't trust my numbers which say you need only 40 watts for those peaks. But one thing for certain, you've got a LOT of speaker drivers contributing to the overall SPL. So, in addition to needing a lot of amplifiers, they need to be of good quality watts. I also don't know how to do the calculation for those dozen or so speakers peak SPL. I know for 2 speakers, you add 3db and than start subtracting for distance. Double the distance from the speaker is -3db or 1/2 the output. People talk about 'room gain' which means that the sound doesn't go away but rather tends to bounce back and ADD to the SPL. That's why your Anechoic senstivity is Always LESS than 'in room'. And PKNAZ is 100% correct. Too Loud can lead to hearing problems. And speakers also don't like high power for extended periods. Don't forget that Maybe 1% to 2% of the electricity from the wall makes it OUT of the speaker as sound. The rest is HEAT. And from amp to ear? The voice coil of a speaker also electrically changes as it warms. A movie running @90db with 110db peaks will after 2 hours, leave you with 'ringing' ears.
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niadh0
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 3
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Post by niadh0 on Nov 7, 2017 21:28:48 GMT -5
wow. i must say i asked my question to the right experts and I am really glad to hear all the responses. Thanks a lot guys for giving me the logic and reasons to get my self more educated for sound matters. I will start looking into this more for sure and come up with a realistic setup.
I am no electonics expert but for some reasons I thought that the amplifiers are designed to 'cap' the peaks before being 'clipped,' and with that theory, i thought that the amplifier i would select should not deliver/amplify more than the rated capacity of the speakers (and if does then the loudness needs t one controlled somehow at the pre-processor). Is my interpretation correct that the amplifier only magnifies the signal (peaks or not) and delivers it to the speakers as long as the ready-to-use-power is available in realtime and the speakers are assumed to handle the power. I think I am over simplifying this and may be completely getting it wrong.
I did hear one suggestion that the I should focus more on the mains and the centre and and get a good amplifier (XPA3) for those channels. The rest can be power with something like 5 channel BaseX.
I did run one dedicated power line to the setup. I already have Monster AVS 2000 stabilizer and HTPS 7000 power cleaner/conditioner that i can connect to feed power to the amps.
comments?
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Post by pknaz on Nov 7, 2017 22:37:21 GMT -5
Pick yourself up a cheap SPL meter that can do C weighting, I think I spent less than $30 on mine. Sit down and listen to some music at your comfort level and hold the SPL meter near your listening position. Put it in C weighting. I usually like to use a fast response time (less averaging) and watch how the meter bounces around quite a bit (digital displays are easier to see this). This will give you your preference in volume level. How much headroom you need greatly depends on the type of content you're listening to and the medium (CD, vinyl, tape, etc.). THX Spec is 85db average with 20db peaks (or 105db) for your normal speakers and an additional 10db above that for the LFE (subwoofer) channel. Most of the music I listen to doesn't have anything over 10db peaks, but there are a few classical tracks that definitely hit the 20db peaks that Leonski sees in his normal listening content. Source: (http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/2013322spl-calculator/) The theory, or text book, calculations suggest that you lose 6db every time you double the distance from a sound source (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Acoustic/isprob2.html). This means that if your speaker was out side, facing the sky, and you measured the output at 2 meters up in the air, it would be 6db more "quiet". This almost never happens in a room, unless your room is an an-echoic chamber, which it isn't - Most residential houses will see less than a 3db drop in SPL when moving to 2 meters, and less than 3db drop when moving again out to 4 meters. I see about a 5db drop all total at over 4.27 meters away from my speakers and my room is heavily treated with absorption panels. Since your speakers are 4ohm (some of them) check to see if the sensitivity is rated as 1 watt @ 1 meter or if it is 2.83 volts @ 1 meter. A 4ohm speaker sensitivity rating of some db @ 2.83v @ 1 meter translates to 2 watts. Each time you want to increase the SPL above your sensitivity rating by 3db, you need to double the power (watts). I use excel quite a lot for doing these sorts of calculations. There is even a handy spreadsheet that you can play with, but it isn't 100% either. www.acousticfrontiers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Max-SPL-Calculator-v6.xlsxI've personally setup my system for 115db peaks at my listening position in C weighting, and my subs run about 6db hotter than my mains. There is absolutely no need for me to have done that, it NEVER gets turned up that loud, and I can quite safely say that almost 90% of my listening is done with less than 1 watt of power (Almost always listening below my sensitivity rating). As an example, my setup, the main speakers are 89db @ 1watt @ 1meter each with an XPA-1 Gen1 that can deliver 1,000 watts RMS at 4ohm and I sit roughtly 4.27 meters away, which I've measured in my room to be roughly 5db down from the 1 meter position. This means I can hit a max db at my listening position of 113(ish) on my main speakers before my amplifier clips. This is with only one speaker playing. With two speakers playing in stereo, you can expect maybe 2-3db additional SPL (You won't get the +6db theoretical because both speakers aren't playing the same content, and they're more than likely too far apart for the woofers to couple) [coupling is when two speakers are within a quarter wavelength of the frequency they're playing, they will act as a single speaker and sum to +6db each of their output]. The exception to this is frequencies that are very low, and your sub(s) is/are most likely handling these anyway. Desired SPL | Watts Required | 89 | 1 | 92 | 2 | 95 | 4 | 98 | 8 | 101 | 16 | 104 | 32 | 107 | 64 | 110 | 128 | 113 | 256 | 116 | 512 | 119 | 1028 |
See how crazy stupid power requirements ramp up once you hit about the +21db point?
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Post by pknaz on Nov 7, 2017 22:43:55 GMT -5
I did run one dedicated power line to the setup. I already have Monster AVS 2000 stabilizer and HTPS 7000 power cleaner/conditioner that i can connect to feed power to the amps. comments? I have the following equipment running from two 15amp circuits (total) in my room plus all the other "stuff" that would go in a normal bonus room type environment: 4 x Dayton SA1000 subwoofer amplifiers (1,000 watts each) 2 x XPA-1's (powering my mains) XPA-7 (surrounds and center) XPA-2 ( rears ) XMC-1 55" plasma TV various sources (DVD, Roku, AppleTV, etc.) Emotiva BasX TA-100 preamp/amp/dac combo Emotiva BasX S8 subwoofer Gaming computer with a 750watt power supply and power hungry CPU/Graphics cards 34" ultra wide monitor At least 3 laptops at all times and various other electronics. I've had no issues, what-so-ever with power requirements. 30 amps has been more than enough for me.
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Post by rbk123 on Nov 8, 2017 13:55:53 GMT -5
I did hear one suggestion that the I should focus more on the mains and the centre and and get a good amplifier (XPA3) for those channels. The rest can be power with something like 5 channel BaseX. I did run one dedicated power line to the setup. I already have Monster AVS 2000 stabilizer and HTPS 7000 power cleaner/conditioner that i can connect to feed power to the amps. comments? Doesn't have to be BasX; it can be the 2 channel cards like in the XPA-9 or XPA-11. The main point is you don't need to break the bank on the rest of the channels, but if you have $$, go nuts. No one ever blathers on about the sonic timbre/accuracy of the left-upper channel, etc... I'd plug the amps directly into the wall. You can then try plugging them in those 2 devices, but they will more likely than not impair the sound. Try all permutations and see what sounds best, but power conditioners cause more problems then help.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 8, 2017 14:13:56 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry about the whole running dedicated 20 amp lines. I mean you can and "technically" it'll be nice to have that large amount of power on tap. But in practise, you don't have to. Unless you will be having things going VERY VERY loud constantly over a long period of time, you should be fine with what you have unless you notice the breaker tripping or something. Now...you might not want to use the Monster and HTPS power conditioners for the amps. The amps require suddent instantaneous power and some power conditioners/filters do not have the power to provide it. This can result in smeared dynamics causing the sound to feel not as good. And yes this includes power conditioners that have a special plug for "amp" or whatever. Best to plug it in to the wall or to a normal power strip which doesn't condition the power. Not saying you HAVE to do this but if it was me that's what I would do. Emotiva also sells power strips that do not limit the power. For me the best results in performance have come from four things and most of them except for buying new speakers are very low cost and very high in value). Much more value than amp upgrades, dac upgrades, really any other upgrades. 1. Speaker upgrades. Most people have settled on the speaker they like. But letting you know this 2. Speaker positioning in the room (how far apart, how far from the back walls, if they are pulled forward from the plane of the tv and rack not behind.) 3. Speaker toe in. It's amazing what experimenting with tiny variations of toe in can do for your soundstage. Once you figure out the exact right toe in and speaker placement you'll realize its value. 4. Room treatments. EVEN ONE can make a LARGE difference in your sound. I put mine behind me on the wall at head level. Amazing what a difference. I used this www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24-x-48-x-2--1001.htmlThe more the better but even one can make a difference. Comes in different colors. There are other sites that sell custom treatments that have paintings on them for about twice the price if you like that to make it more wife friendly. Just more $$$
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Post by leonski on Nov 8, 2017 17:06:59 GMT -5
Sure, Room First, maybe. Setup is key. A MegaBuck system in a poor room still sounds awful. A lesser system in a terrific room will easily sound better. Modestly applied room treatments can make a huge difference but OVER APPLIED can hurt. And YES, again, I missed that. Running amps thru a power conditioner can suck the life out of 'em. But I will say 2 things which are UnPopular. First? Aftermarket power cords CAN make a difference. Even higher priced amps from 'name' manufacturers come with cheesy cords which are frequently ONE SIZE too small. You dont' need to spend $$$ but go to something like the Pangea SE14 in one of its versions. I'll bet that the -1 amps from EMO come with 14 ga, at best, even the KiloWatt stuff which can't help but benefit from a 12 ga. cord. Second? It cracks me up when somebody buys a couple KW of amp than plugs the whole thing into a single 15amp circuit. Such circuits are only 1440 watts continues, being subject to a -20% 'derate' in such service. And than ALL the low current and digital stuff is plugged into the same circuit? I'd say to either:: Get it right and provide the power such amps need OR to buy more modest amps and more sensitive speakers you like. In any event, putting TV, disc players and low power stuff on a different circuit than amps is a good start. A good setup guide can be found at the CARDAS website. And while it is primarily aimed at the stereo guys, the Principles can be applied accross the board. www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php
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Post by pknaz on Nov 8, 2017 18:25:54 GMT -5
Second? It cracks me up when somebody buys a couple KW of amp than plugs the whole thing into a single 15amp circuit. Such circuits are only 1440 watts continues, being subject to a -20% 'derate' in such service. And than ALL the low current and digital stuff is plugged into the same circuit? I'd say to either:: Get it right and provide the power such amps need OR to buy more modest amps and more sensitive speakers you like. In any event, putting TV, disc players and low power stuff on a different circuit than amps is a good start. a 15 amp circuit can deliver 30 amps of power for slightly more than 100 seconds (over 1.5 minutes) and roughly 90 amps of current for 10 seconds before tripping the breaker and substantially more than that amount for instantaneous amounts of time. Additionally, the capacitor banks in each amplifier provide an additional reserve of power for when it isn't available at the wall. static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/Molded%20Case%20Circuit%20Breakers/0100-400%20A%20Frame%20FA-LA/FA-FC-FH/0600DB0105.pdfCould I have gotten away with smaller power amps, you betcha, but I also purchased some of my equipment used or on clearance, so the price of the equipment was a factor in the configuration. Having almost 10,000 watts of power amplification doesn't mean I'll ever, under any real world scenario, use that amount of power simultaneously. But if I did, want to, given what we already know about music/movies and how dynamic that content is, I really only need that amount of power at very brief fractional second time lengths which fits well with how AC circuits are designed. This therefor means that I'll never stress my circuits. My subs have 1,000 watts each on them, but they are Xmax (amount of travel they can sustain) limited at around 350 watts. Why did I choose to go with 1,000 watt amps, then? Because the cost difference between the 250 watt amp (slightly too little power) and the 1,000 watt amp was negligible, and I gained more flexibility with the 1,000 watt amp (More control like parametric EQ, etc.). So I'm never driving those amps beyond about 400 watts or so, ever, even at +115db at my listening position (yes, I've tested this). Saying that you _need_ some arbitrary number of dedicated circuits to support the maximum amount of power an amplifier might pull if it was fully loaded at RMS rated power over an extended period of time, is just that, and arbitrary statement with no merit in factual system requirements. If I'm not drawing anywhere near the 30 amps I have on tap for my every day usage, why bother adding additional dedicated circuits? If I purchased the equipment I have either second hand or on clearance (read as substantially less than MSRP) and it meets my needs/requirements, then what impetus is there for change?
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Post by leonski on Nov 8, 2017 19:53:55 GMT -5
We approach this from opposite ends. My bias has always been for long-term output. And for that, you Derate your outlets by -20%. Of course large amounts of current can be delivered for Very short periods of time, as witnessed by lightning damage.
And yes, more circuits are better. My former Carver Cube of only 200x2 would cause the lights in the house to flicker in time to th music at the very highest levels. This was into a pair of Magnepan MG-1, an original model but not the 'first'. The addition of a 2nd circuit ONLY for the power amp(s) stopped that behavior. I try to keep Digital / Low current stuff on a different line than the HIgh power stuff. A small Isolation transformer is used for some gear. I've experimented with power conditioners, too, for power amps, and that has never worked out. It's not necessarily about CURRENT, but about interaction.
I've been a fan of VIFA / Peerless for a while. They compare very favorably to the best out there, even including stuff from Scanspeak, Fostex, Focal, and others. I like the Fullrange Single driver stuff. After about 3 or 4 drivers on a baffle, I can start to hear 'em, no matter how ingenious the crossover. Some of the Open Baffle stuff from Linkwitz is an exception while I've been loving panels since I first heard them back in early 80s. And never looked back.
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Post by leonski on Nov 11, 2017 20:23:47 GMT -5
PKNAZ Said:
As an example, my setup, the main speakers are 89db @ 1watt @ 1meter each with an XPA-1 Gen1 that can deliver 1,000 watts RMS at 4ohm and I sit roughtly 4.27 meters away, which I've measured in my room to be roughly 5db down from the 1 meter position. This means I can hit a max db at my listening position of 113(ish) on my main speakers before my amplifier clips. This is with only one speaker playing. With two speakers playing in stereo, you can expect maybe 2-3db additional SPL (You won't get the +6db theoretical because both speakers aren't playing the same content, and they're more than likely too far apart for the woofers to couple) [coupling is when two speakers are within a quarter wavelength of the frequency they're playing, they will act as a single speaker and sum to +6db each of their output]. The exception to this is frequencies that are very low, and your sub(s) is/are most likely handling these anyway.
Uquote:
I find the quarter wavelength measure interesting. For speakers 8 feet apart, not uncommon in HT setups, I think, the 'cogging' frequency would be about 130hz or so. Still localizable yet above reasonable crossover frequencies for subs. As for sitting 4.27 Meters away (!) I suspect more accessible to more people would be a simple 14 feet. And without the false precision implied by 2 significant digits. If you live in a Metric World, than simply 'greater than 4 meters' tells me most of what I need to know.
One additional point not quite mentioned is the idea of 'room gain' where the free air or anechoic calculations don't Quite apply. Maggies are also a slight exception, behaving more like a line source than 'other'.
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