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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 2, 2018 7:02:29 GMT -5
...that most surround processors and AVRs lack DLNA streaming over Ethernet?
I can understand not having video streaming via DLNA, although that would be nice to have too, but audio streaming seems like a no-brainer. The only answer I can come up with is that the feature is being eliminated from processors & AVRs because some (few) disc players offer it and there's no sense in duplicating the function. But the fact remains that the MAJORITY of disc players don't support DLNA streaming. So since the cost is relatively minimal, why wouldn't the processor and AVR manufacturers want to include it? It seems foolish to include multiple optical, coaxial, and usb inputs (most of which will never be used) while eliminating DLNA.
Of course, I could just be mistaken in thinking that there's a demand for the DLNA feature, and that I'm the only schmuck still using it. But from what I read elsewhere on line, I'm getting the impression that DLNA streaming is still fairly widespread. But I could be wrong...
Boomzilla
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 2, 2018 8:50:28 GMT -5
...that most surround processors and AVRs lack DLNA streaming over Ethernet? I can understand not having video streaming via DLNA, although that would be nice to have too, but audio streaming seems like a no-brainer. The only answer I can come up with is that the feature is being eliminated from processors & AVRs because some (few) disc players offer it and there's no sense in duplicating the function. But the fact remains that the MAJORITY of disc players don't support DLNA streaming. So since the cost is relatively minimal, why wouldn't the processor and AVR manufacturers want to include it? It seems foolish to include multiple optical, coaxial, and usb inputs (most of which will never be used) while eliminating DLNA. Of course, I could just be mistaken in thinking that there's a demand for the DLNA feature, and that I'm the only schmuck still using it. But from what I read elsewhere on line, I'm getting the impression that DLNA streaming is still fairly widespread. But I could be wrong... Boomzilla The processors function is to CONTROL those features such as streaming, rather than offer them. I believe that’s your answer. Bill |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 2, 2018 8:59:53 GMT -5
Hi 405x5 - I understand your comment, but were that the case, it would seem that a lot of other functions (including the DAC) would also be excluded from the processor. Since processors offer the functions to accept AND control other digital streams (TOSLINK, coaxial SP/DIF, USB, Bluetooth, HDMI, etc.) then it seems logical that DLNA over Ethernet should also be included on the processor. Just my two cents... |
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Post by thrillcat on Apr 2, 2018 8:59:57 GMT -5
...that most surround processors and AVRs lack DLNA streaming over Ethernet? Of course, I could just be mistaken in thinking that there's a demand for the DLNA feature, and that I'm the only schmuck still using it. But from what I read elsewhere on line, I'm getting the impression that DLNA streaming is still fairly widespread. But I could be wrong... Boomzilla I think it's party the demand point you raised, but also because it's a pain for them to keep it up to date. It's one thing to release it, but then they have to maintain it and keep updating it. That's not their business model. And if they don't, all of a sudden their customers are outraged. Emotiva is public enemy number one when a (relatively small) portion of their customer base is waiting on an upgrade. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 2, 2018 9:04:10 GMT -5
Of all the digital inputs, it seems that DLNA over Ethernet is the one that's changed the least over time, so I'd contest the maintain/upgrade argument. But I think I agree with you, thrillcat, about demand being the deciding factor. Not too many people use DLNA, and so the manufacturers are probably trying to ignore it hoping it will die. The preferred multi-room-source solution seems to be wireless. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Apr 2, 2018 9:05:28 GMT -5
If you want a streamer get a streamer. Most processors or receivers don't do a good job because the cost of offering a user interface that is worth using for streaming is prohibitive. Get a streamer.
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 2, 2018 9:10:07 GMT -5
But the DLNA receiver has no interface. All user interface is set at the source. I use jRiver as my interface on the server computer. It sees my Oppo (and my TV, and my iPad, etc.) as "destinations." I merely select the destination I want to stream to, and that's it. No further complication needed from the destination.
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Post by thrillcat on Apr 2, 2018 9:15:29 GMT -5
Of all the digital inputs, it seems that DLNA over Ethernet is the one that's changed the least over time, so I'd contest the maintain/upgrade argument. But I think I agree with you, thrillcat , about demand being the deciding factor. Not too many people use DLNA, and so the manufacturers are probably trying to ignore it hoping it will die. The preferred multi-room-source solution seems to be wireless. The older I get, the simpler I want things to be. If I want to watch something that's a file, I plug a USB stick into the front of my Oppo player. The greatest thing about my current system is the simplicity. Fewer devices. I always consider ripping everything I have onto a server, but when it comes right down to it, why? Sure, it's cool to have 1-button access to everything like that, and there are some pretty cool menu skins out there for the interfaces available, but every time I've been to someone's house to watch something and it's on a server, we spend 45 minutes troubleshooting something before we start the movie. Some driver isn't right, or the software isn't correctly reading the audio format, something isn't right. My Oppo always knows what to do when I put that disc in. I'm not anti-files, or anti-streaming, but I'm not a tech support office. I want someone else making sure everything is going to play nicely together. I have a ton of stuff on Vudu (Ultraviolet and now Movies Anywhere). Any DVD that I didn't view as worthy of the upgrade to blu-ray was upgraded to an HDX file via Vudu's disc to digital. The DVDs are in the attic, and Vudu is my tech support. If it comes down to it, and they stop making discs, I'll be saving up for a Kaliedescape. |
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Post by brubacca on Apr 2, 2018 9:25:43 GMT -5
I think that it is as simple as not enough people want it. Plus it is add on code to the dAC chipset used in the product. Between identifying and handling 37 different formats over 137 different combinations of speakers and literally thousands of possible devices they have anough on their hands.
Buy yourself a Sonore MicroRendu or a SoTm sms-200, plus a Schiit Eitr and put the DLNA streaming thing to rest. Now you have a fantastic DLNA renderer/transport with a coax digital output. Your setup can stay the same as you swap out DACs and HT processors. The MicroRendu and Eitr are a great little combo.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Apr 2, 2018 11:38:31 GMT -5
DLNA is simply one of many streaming standards - which some devices support and others do not. DLNA is pretty widely used (even though "the DLNA group" has been officially dissolved). As with any other feature, whether to support it or not is a balance between the extra work required to do so and the demand. I should also note that one reason why not every processor supports it is that many TVs and Blu-Ray players already do support it. (So, if you have an Oppo connected to your XMC-1, then your XMC-1 already "has DLNA support" - with the Oppo as its client.) DLNA can be operated as "pull" or "push" (some servers allow you to send stuff from the server; some clients can request stuff; and some do both). My main issue with DLNA is that it tends to be somewhat ill-defined ( suspect this is the issue many audiophiles have with it). What I mean is that I can connect to my DLNA server and "have it play something" - but it isn't obvious whether what it's playing is bit-perfect, or is being converted, or by whom, and how. I'm pretty sure the "streaming audio input" on our new DC-2 will be DLNA.... (but don't hold me to any details yet). But the DLNA receiver has no interface. All user interface is set at the source. I use jRiver as my interface on the server computer. It sees my Oppo (and my TV, and my iPad, etc.) as "destinations." I merely select the destination I want to stream to, and that's it. No further complication needed from the destination. |
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Apr 2, 2018 12:30:32 GMT -5
Ive been a HT buff for a long time. I purchased the Yamaha 3020 after much research. Its a Swiss army knife oer cee. Aple direct, internet radio,,,,blah,,,blah,,,,, and DNLA. Most of the upper line has all kinds of controls. Even all the speakers. Ive owned it for a few years and may not have msyered all it can do. For two channel its good but its not a dedicated stereo setup IMHO IVE GONE TUBES FOR THAT as you know.  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 2, 2018 13:03:55 GMT -5
Actually, my Oppo disc player is a perfectly fine DLNA destination, AND it offers digital outputs of that DLNA stream in my (digital) choice of coaxial or optical. Therefore, I can (pretty much) add ANY DAC I want and use the digital outputs of the Oppo (buffered & de-jittered) as fodder.
So why would I want a separate DLNA receiver? Mostly to get the Oppo's DLNA to digital conversion out of the path. Seems that DLNA to DAC should be cleaner than DLNA to buffer to coax to DAC... But maybe not?
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Post by Loop 7 on Apr 2, 2018 13:13:10 GMT -5
I wonder if DLNA streaming is a rarity on consumer radar. Are capabilities like AirPlay, Chromecast, Play-Fi and Spotify Connect more in demand than DLNA? I don't have any data, just expressing curiosity.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Apr 2, 2018 13:49:33 GMT -5
Yes, there are several Streaming Audio "standards" out there: DLNA, Squeeze, Roon, Sonos, etc. It's hard to say which a Processor should implement, or combination. For me, I had hoped that the RMC-1 would support an integrated Roon Endpoint since that's what I happen to be using, but it's pretty cheap (~$100) to put together a Raspberry Pi 3 with the Ropieee distribution and get an Ethernet -> USB Roon Endpoint. The only penalty will be the clutter behind my equipment. Maybe one of those RMC-1 Expansion Modules will come around and offer this ...
Casey
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Post by wilburthegoose on Apr 2, 2018 14:48:41 GMT -5
My ancient Denon AVR-4311 had DLNA, but it was worthless with Windows 8 or 10. I had over 25K songs, and populating the data took forever and eventually timed out.
It worked once I switched to a new DLNA server on my PC (Asset uPNP from dbPoweramp), but by then I found Roon and I never looked back.
And, yeah, I could play music to the Denon as a DLNA client, but I quickly became bored. It actually reminded more of a 15 year old product I used called Nirvis. Nirvis had an Access database tied to Sony CD players and it kept track of what disk was in which slot. If I pulled up a CD, it would get the correct player to load the CD and start playing. The tricky thing was to switch the input on my receiver to the correct Toslink input! Thank goodness for FLAC!
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Post by Loop 7 on Apr 2, 2018 14:48:45 GMT -5
I had hoped that the RMC-1 would support an integrated Roon Endpoint... As would I like to see Emotiva offer Roon endpoint capability but us Roon users seem to fringe in the Emo world. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 3, 2018 4:49:02 GMT -5
So for the time being, it looks as if my orphaned Oppo UDP-205 will be the DLNA client for my jRiver server. I'll keep it until it dies and then I'll be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century and face the necessity of buying a streamer. Hopefully, by that time, the market will be somewhat rationalized. What I'd hope to see, with my future goggles on, is:
Simple disc transports that can read any 5.25" optical disc with upgrade modules for future proofing
Relatively inexpensive processors / streamers that can take the output of any disc transport and the output of any internet streaming channel with upgradable, internal DACs OR
Digital output of the processor / streamer that you can use to feed the DAC(s) of your choice
Analog only multi-channel preamps with modular construction for adding channels
Modular power amps for adding channels (sound like any product we know?)
And, of course, as always, I could be wrong...
But just out of curiosity, I might add that I'm supposed to review the McIntosh MCT-500 - a CD/SACD transport. If they'd added video capabilities to the transport, it would have been close to what I envision for the future of disc players...
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Post by wilburthegoose on Apr 3, 2018 9:55:31 GMT -5
I had hoped that the RMC-1 would support an integrated Roon Endpoint... As would I like to see Emotiva offer Roon endpoint capability but us Roon users seem to fringe in the Emo world. If Emotiva were to produce a high-quality Roon endpoint, I'd buy it immediately. Today, I'm using my Oppo, but who knows how long that'll be an option now. |
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