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Post by tutetibiimperes on May 3, 2018 23:43:50 GMT -5
The folks behind THX have started a new website to scientifically measure an array of AV products at www.thxstandard.com. They don't have a ton of gear on the site yet, but the XPA-7 Gen3 is one of the amps they have in their multichannel amp ratings, and the results aren't pretty. I'm curious as to why that may be, is it testing methodology, are there design choices that went into the Gen3 that make it fall short in these tests, are those differences even audible? I'm not intending this to bash anything, I was just honestly surprised to see the XPA-7 not fare better and I'm curious as to why the results are what they are. (small edit, I accidentally posted this in the wrong forum originally, so deleted that post and reposted here).
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Post by 405x5 on May 4, 2018 7:26:15 GMT -5
The folks behind THX have started a new website to scientifically measure an array of AV products at www.thxstandard.com. They don't have a ton of gear on the site yet, but the XPA-7 Gen3 is one of the amps they have in their multichannel amp ratings, and the results aren't pretty. I'm curious as to why that may be, is it testing methodology, are there design choices that went into the Gen3 that make it fall short in these tests, are those differences even audible? I'm not intending this to bash anything, I was just honestly surprised to see the XPA-7 not fare better and I'm curious as to why the results are what they are. (small edit, I accidentally posted this in the wrong forum originally, so deleted that post and reposted here). Don’t loose any sleep over this.... Many of the finest components on planet 🌎 earth are non “THX certified” for any number of reasons. So much of what THX does is partnering ploy and can limit some fine choices out there, were you to rely on them. HDMI.org is another animal altogether, if you want to talk meaningfully about adhering to industry standards that are important. I visited the main THX site and could not find what you were looking at.....link? Bill
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Post by indyscammer on May 4, 2018 8:11:49 GMT -5
If you look through the data they have posted the XPA does appear to have performed a little worse than the other 2 amps. What I didn't find was an explanation of their numbering system beyond the statement in their FAQ that they weigh linearity/distortion more than the other measurements. I would be happy with the measurements from all 3 of these amplifiers as a side note.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on May 4, 2018 9:35:13 GMT -5
I see they have a mix of different topologies (Class A/B, Class D) and that is important to bear in mind when comparing specs.
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Post by AudioHTIT on May 4, 2018 9:42:32 GMT -5
The folks behind THX have started a new website to scientifically measure an array of AV products at www.thxstandard.com. They don't have a ton of gear on the site yet, but the XPA-7 Gen3 is one of the amps they have in their multichannel amp ratings, and the results aren't pretty. I'm curious as to why that may be, is it testing methodology, are there design choices that went into the Gen3 that make it fall short in these tests, are those differences even audible? I'm not intending this to bash anything, I was just honestly surprised to see the XPA-7 not fare better and I'm curious as to why the results are what they are. (small edit, I accidentally posted this in the wrong forum originally, so deleted that post and reposted here). Don’t loose any sleep over this.... Many of the finest components on planet 🌎 earth are non “THX certified” for any number of reasons. So much of what THX does is partnering ploy and can limit some fine choices out there, were you to rely on them. HDMI.org is another animal altogether, if you want to talk meaningfully about adhering to industry standards that are important. I visited the main THX site and could not find what you were looking at.....link? Bill I don’t think he’s confusing THX Certified with THX Tested, they are indeed different; it’s another tool for evaluating equipment. Now if it turns out that only products that are “THX Certified” do well when “THX Tested”, then we might have a reason to be suspicious. I would also be curious as to whether their testing criteria is pertinent in identifying products that are sonically or visually superior. I went to the site he referenced and it came up fine. Here’s the main site: www.thxstandard.com/#!/ Here’s a direct link to the XPA-7 G3 test: www.thxstandard.com/#!/product/31/
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Post by AudioHTIT on May 4, 2018 9:53:08 GMT -5
I see they have a mix of different topologies (Class A/B, Class D) and that is important to bear in mind when comparing specs. Yes, but I think it actually helps if it identifies that certain topologies are sonically superior. If you take The Absolute Sound’s original premise, or the “straight wire with gain” concept, then all amplifiers are (should be) trying to create the same sound (or lack of), even if they come at it from different directions.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on May 4, 2018 10:10:35 GMT -5
I see they have a mix of different topologies (Class A/B, Class D) and that is important to bear in mind when comparing specs. Yes, but I think it actually helps if it identifies that certain topologies are sonically superior. If you take The Absolute Sound’s original premise, or the “straight wire with gain” concept, then all amplifiers are (should be) trying to create the same sound (or lack of), even if they come at it from different directions. Right, but "sonically superior" cannot be derived just from comparing the specs - especially specs across different topologies - that's my point. "Straight wire with gain" is an idealistic notion and each configuration gets there with their own pros and cons.
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Post by AudioHTIT on May 4, 2018 10:16:51 GMT -5
Yes, but I think it actually helps if it identifies that certain topologies are sonically superior. If you take The Absolute Sound’s original premise, or the “straight wire with gain” concept, then all amplifiers are (should be) trying to create the same sound (or lack of), even if they come at it from different directions. Right, but "sonically superior" cannot be derived just from comparing the specs - especially specs across different topologies - that's my point. "Straight wire with gain" is an idealistic notion and each configuration gets there with their own pros and cons. Yes, this was part of the OP’s premise (or question), do these measurements help us find products that are audibly superior.
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Post by repeetavx on May 4, 2018 10:27:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the link. But since I don't own a Gen 3, (and probably never will) I can't help but to wonder how one of the previous Gens would fair.
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Post by rbk123 on May 4, 2018 11:03:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the link. But since I don't own a Gen 3, (and probably never will) I can't help but to wonder how one of the previous Gens would fair. Highly similarly. I can say I've owned a lot of amps over the years and never once has it occurred to me to look up their THX status/reviews; nor do I intend to start now. One thing is clear, Emo's G3 amps easily make the grade.
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Post by mgbpuff on May 4, 2018 11:25:34 GMT -5
Hey a review is a review and one with data to back it up is not one to ignore. This is the second questionable result for a Gen 3 Emotiva amp product. I blame the PWM power supply. Monoprice looks better that I ever thought it would, but then it is a big toroid ps design.
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Post by socketman on May 4, 2018 11:43:16 GMT -5
I would like if they did a test on a Gen 2 so we could see how it fairs against the G3 . Hearing acuity drops with age so for me anything above 14k is superfluous. Never hurts to have outside info ,perhaps someone at EMO will enlighten us.
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Post by pedrocols on May 4, 2018 11:58:49 GMT -5
Only have one thing to say. Two Channel Rules!!!™
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Post by garbulky on May 4, 2018 12:18:59 GMT -5
Jeez look at this IMD test from the XPA gen 3 In comparison is the Monolith 7 channel IMD test In the Monolith in the -3db test the first distortion spike is about -105 db. In the Emotiva you get a --38 db spike with lots of spikes close to it. That's a large difference and likely pretty audible.
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Post by leonski on May 5, 2018 15:27:05 GMT -5
Reducing an amplifiers performance to a SINGLE number is ridiculous.
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Post by tutetibiimperes on May 6, 2018 20:36:25 GMT -5
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Post by RichGuy on May 6, 2018 21:20:26 GMT -5
Personally I've never cared much for THX, especially their marketing ratings. Manufacturers paying for THX certification and recommendation, with a lot of cheap crap THX certified.
Emotiva probably wouldn't get great THX ratings since they don't pay THX for them.
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Post by socketman on May 6, 2018 21:35:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the link, that was a good read and as usual Gene pulls no punch's . Money truly is the root of all evil.
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Post by vcautokid on May 6, 2018 22:20:53 GMT -5
I too won't lose too much sleep on THX standards. When they started rating by price brackets and so on. I lost interest. Interesting intermodulation results there Garbulky.
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Post by garbulky on May 6, 2018 22:26:03 GMT -5
I too won't lose too much sleep on THX standards. When they started rating by price brackets and so on. I lost interest. Interesting intermodulation results there Garbulky. Stereophile got something similar too Note this was 100 watts. three spikes at -30 db! Below is the 1 watt result From here www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-xpa-gen3-two-channel-power-amplifier-measurementsIn comparison a Parasound Halo JC-1 IMD test (at 600 watts!) - granted they are in different price ranges and this is a monoblock. Here's the parasound Halo Integrated unit 40 watts IMD ($2400)
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