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Post by garbulky on May 27, 2018 14:05:05 GMT -5
Just got a pair ordered. Going to power a set of klipsch rf7ii. Been dreaming about mono blocks since it was 15 years old! This is going to be everything you are hoping for!
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Post by leonski on May 27, 2018 14:28:12 GMT -5
Just got a pair ordered. Going to power a set of klipsch rf7ii. Been dreaming about mono blocks since it was 15 years old! This is going to be everything you are hoping for! I'm missing something. Aren't the RF7's around 100 db sensitivity? And the big EMO mono amps are maybe 500 or 600 watts?
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Post by garbulky on May 27, 2018 14:29:21 GMT -5
This is going to be everything you are hoping for! I'm missing something. Aren't the RF7's around 100 db sensitivity? And the big EMO mono amps are maybe 500 or 600 watts? I never drive my emo amps anywhere close to its max. Most of the time one owuld be listening at about a watt or maybe two. So I guess I'm really talking about how I like its sound at that power. Most of my listening is below 80 db around low 70's.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,222
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Post by novisnick on May 27, 2018 14:38:57 GMT -5
I'm missing something. Aren't the RF7's around 100 db sensitivity? And the big EMO mono amps are maybe 500 or 600 watts? I never drive my emo amps anywhere close to its max. Most of the time one owuld be listening at about a watt or maybe two. So I guess I'm really talking about how I like its sound at that power. Most of my listening is below 80 db around low 70's. Ive driven a set of Klipsch towers with my XPR-1’s and they sound much better with the extreme extra headroom. It makes new speakers from ones that are driven with less headroom, like my set of XPA-1Ls. Not that Im using more watts but the extra reserves or whatever you like to call it makes a difference. Im no engineer but I do know what I hear. YMMV
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Post by leonski on May 27, 2018 15:30:08 GMT -5
Just be careful. The extreme power of the EMO mono amps can damage speakers of such high sensitivity. Especially for long time-period sessions.
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Post by milt99 on Jun 1, 2018 20:27:48 GMT -5
Here's my story. Pre-ordered the XPA-1Ls when they were introduced. They've driven my Revel Studio2s just fine in Class A mode. At the time I thought Emotiva had gone out on a limb, designed & sold an amp that Nelson Pass would give a nod to. Fiddle farted around too long on deciding whether to add a 2nd pair for bi-amping to give the lower end more juice. Then they were gone. Guess what? I know that the 1Ls probably never sold in big numbers but finding them pre-owned is a b**ch. Went round and round over NCore based amps for bi-amping but the gain structure is different on most of the OEM\DIY models. 26db vs 29db.
So what the hell, ordered a pair of XPA-1 Gen 2s for bi-amping with the XPA-1Ls. Identical gain\output design. Far more powerful transformer, 450VA v 1200, capacitance 90,000 v 120,000 which gives the edge to the 1L regarding comparative output. The 1Ls have 8 output transistors per\channel. Unknown for the XPA-1. The identical spread of the speaker terminals that people complain about tells me that the physical layout of the channels have a lot of similarities. Glad I have a beefy hand truck
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Post by leonski on Jun 2, 2018 17:59:35 GMT -5
Here's my story. Pre-ordered the XPA-1Ls when they were introduced. They've driven my Revel Studio2s just fine in Class A mode. At the time I thought Emotiva had gone out on a limb, designed & sold an amp that Nelson Pass would give a nod to. Fiddle farted around too long on deciding whether to add a 2nd pair for bi-amping to give the lower end more juice. Then they were gone. Guess what? I know that the 1Ls probably never sold in big numbers but finding them pre-owned is a b**ch. Went round and round over NCore based amps for bi-amping but the gain structure is different on most of the OEM\DIY models. 26db vs 29db. So what the hell, ordered a pair of XPA-1 Gen 2s for bi-amping with the XPA-1Ls. Identical gain\output design. Far more powerful transformer, 450VA v 1200, capacitance 90,000 v 120,000 which gives the edge to the 1L regarding comparative output. The 1Ls have 8 output transistors per\channel. Unknown for the XPA-1. The identical spread of the speaker terminals that people complain about tells me that the physical layout of the channels have a lot of similarities. Glad I have a beefy hand truck The work around for the gain problem is fairly simple in principle, but an 'advanced amateur' project when you go to DO it. What is the crossover where you intend to 'split' your speakers into high / low? And a lot 'depends' on the facts and what you hope to gain by biamping. But you COULD do pretty much the following: Gutt the speaker crossover, leaving the mid/high if it's a 3-way. Acquire a MiniDSP 2x4 or 2x8. That's 2 in and either 4 or 8 'out' and all assignable to frequency and all have software with Parametric EQ and other features. You can duplicate the original crossover to start. Gain differences between the amps? No problem at all. And for the ''Icing' you can get the Calibration Mic and run it into REW on your computer. That's the next level of a project like that and will potentially better the factory crossover.
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Post by counterpoint on Jun 11, 2018 12:38:06 GMT -5
Does anyone know how the XPA-1 Gen2 compares to the SA-250? That was the amp for me that got away. Still kicking myself to this very day for not buying one. I remember everyone saying how good that amp sounded and I'm wondering if any of the current line-up sounds as good or better.
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Post by teaman on Jun 11, 2018 16:21:37 GMT -5
Does anyone know how the XPA-1 Gen2 compares to the SA-250? That was the amp for me that got away. Still kicking myself to this very day for not buying one. I remember everyone saying how good that amp sounded and I'm wondering if any of the current line-up sounds as good or better. Based upon reviews I have heard, the SA-250 is hit and miss as far as quality.
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Post by audiophill on Jun 11, 2018 19:09:00 GMT -5
I love my SA-250. I also have a RPA-2, a pair of XPA-1's gen 2, and a pair of XPR-1's. Don't think i would want to part with any of them. No problems with any of them. All sound quite epic!
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Post by milt99 on Jun 11, 2018 20:50:51 GMT -5
What is the crossover where you intend to 'split' your speakers into high / low? I could do many things but I'm just going to use the horizonal bi-amping capability of the speaker. They can also be bi-amped vertically. I've consulted directly with a Revel engineer about this and took his advice. The X-Over at the speaker terminals for horizontal passive bi-amping on the Studio2s is 271Hz. Thinking of running the XPA-1s in Class A on the upper end & the less powerful XPA-1Ls in Class A on the lower end. Since they both switch from Class A to Class A/B, I'm thinking with 60wpc Class A on the upper end, where 90% of the information is, it won't switch to A/B often if ever. On the lower end, the Revels go into 4Ohm territory so the added, dedicated power should be a decent improvement. I'm going to try it both ways just to see if I can tell a difference.
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Post by leonski on Jun 11, 2018 21:05:46 GMT -5
sound.whsites.net/bi-amp.htmRead sections 1.3 and 1.4 and get back to the forum. Part of what to look for is the power / frequency distribution. The crossover frequency is UnEffected by if you have a 'horizontal' or 'vertical' type setup to the amps. Don't forget the crossover is NOT a brick wall and each amp will continue to be fed and have to deal with the full bandwidth. So while you are indeed feeding the speaker more power, you won't have 'magic' gains. Restricting the bandwith to each 'way' will not get you the huge bump you think, maybe. EAch amp will continue to 'swing' the entire voltage required by the input, though unloaded. That's the real advantage of an active crossover. No more out-of-band requirements of EACH amp. I have ONE stereo amp behind each panel. And would LOVE to go to an active crossover.
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Post by donh50 on Jun 12, 2018 13:49:41 GMT -5
There are a myriad of line-level crossovers around... To toss out a few, the inexpensive ('ish, ~$200 USD) dbx223 is one of my "go-to" active crossovers; works for subs too, balanced IO, purely analog, etc. The miniDSP units are cheap and powerful for those who like to tinker. Higher up the chain are Marchand passive and active crossovers, then Bryston makes a very nice albeit expensive crossover.
Have they said what is replacing the XPA-1? Is there a Gen3 in the works?
Years ago I talked with Emotiva about using the XPA-1 on speakers that dipped to ~2 ohms or a little below (nominal 4-6 ohms) and they were hesitant to recommend driving that low. I bought an XPA-2, saving some money and plenty of power for me, but curious if people are using XPA-1s with relatively low-Z speakers? ESLs, some conventional speakers, and some ribbon tweeters (e.g. Magnepan) dip to about 3 ohms or below at various frequencies.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,928
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Post by KeithL on Jun 12, 2018 14:11:03 GMT -5
1)
For those who DON'T like to tinker too much, these guys make a line-level passive subwoofer crossover with selectable crossover frequencies for about $50.
2) The replacement for the XPA-1 Gen3 is the XPA-DR1 Gen3.
3) Speakers with an extremely low impedance are always a dicey issue. A speaker that exhibits a 2 Ohm impedance across a wide range of frequencies is going to cause most amplifiers to run very hot - possibly to the point of overheating. (Any Class A/B amplifier operates less efficiently at impedances that are far below those it is designed for.... ) That's why we don't recommend most of our amps for use with low impedance subwoofers.
However, this issue is less of a factor for speakers whose impedance is only very low at very high frequencies, where there is little musical energy being delivered. Another issue with electrostatic speakers is that, not only is their impedance very low at high frequencies, but they pose an almost purely capacitive load.
Because of THIS, they can pose stability issues for some amplifiers.
Most of our amps would be subject to the heating issue, but are quite stable, so they would probably not have stability issues. However, driving a 2 Ohm load with an amp not specifically designed for a load that low is always going to carry some risk of shortening its life.
There are a myriad of line-level crossovers around... To toss out a few, the inexpensive ('ish, ~$200 USD) dbx223 is one of my "go-to" active crossovers; works for subs too, balanced IO, purely analog, etc. The miniDSP units are cheap and powerful for those who like to tinker. Higher up the chain are Marchand passive and active crossovers, then Bryston makes a very nice albeit expensive crossover. Have they said what is replacing the XPA-1? Is there a Gen3 in the works? Years ago I talked with Emotiva about using the XPA-1 on speakers that dipped to ~2 ohms or a little below (nominal 4-6 ohms) and they were hesitant to recommend driving that low. I bought an XPA-2, saving some money and plenty of power for me, but curious if people are using XPA-1s with relatively low-Z speakers? ESLs, some conventional speakers, and some ribbon tweeters (e.g. Magnepan) dip to about 3 ohms or below at various frequencies.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,928
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Post by KeithL on Jun 12, 2018 14:16:43 GMT -5
Matching the gain between two amplifiers - both with fixed gain - is really trivial. Simply use a high quality passive in-line attenuator to reduce the gain of the one with too much gain.
Parts Express carries H-Labs line of passive in-line unbalanced attenuators. They cost about $30 a pair, and come in a variety of common values, including -3 dB, -6 dB, and -12 dB. Balanced attenuators are a little more difficult to find, but they are commonly available.
A proper passive attenuator is simply a pair of resistors, and should not have a significant effect on sound quality, frequency response, distortion, or noise.
Here's my story. Pre-ordered the XPA-1Ls when they were introduced. They've driven my Revel Studio2s just fine in Class A mode. At the time I thought Emotiva had gone out on a limb, designed & sold an amp that Nelson Pass would give a nod to. Fiddle farted around too long on deciding whether to add a 2nd pair for bi-amping to give the lower end more juice. Then they were gone. Guess what? I know that the 1Ls probably never sold in big numbers but finding them pre-owned is a b**ch. Went round and round over NCore based amps for bi-amping but the gain structure is different on most of the OEM\DIY models. 26db vs 29db. So what the hell, ordered a pair of XPA-1 Gen 2s for bi-amping with the XPA-1Ls. Identical gain\output design. Far more powerful transformer, 450VA v 1200, capacitance 90,000 v 120,000 which gives the edge to the 1L regarding comparative output. The 1Ls have 8 output transistors per\channel. Unknown for the XPA-1. The identical spread of the speaker terminals that people complain about tells me that the physical layout of the channels have a lot of similarities. Glad I have a beefy hand truck The work around for the gain problem is fairly simple in principle, but an 'advanced amateur' project when you go to DO it. What is the crossover where you intend to 'split' your speakers into high / low? And a lot 'depends' on the facts and what you hope to gain by biamping. But you COULD do pretty much the following: Gutt the speaker crossover, leaving the mid/high if it's a 3-way. Acquire a MiniDSP 2x4 or 2x8. That's 2 in and either 4 or 8 'out' and all assignable to frequency and all have software with Parametric EQ and other features. You can duplicate the original crossover to start. Gain differences between the amps? No problem at all. And for the ''Icing' you can get the Calibration Mic and run it into REW on your computer. That's the next level of a project like that and will potentially better the factory crossover.
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Post by leonski on Jun 12, 2018 14:25:48 GMT -5
There are a myriad of line-level crossovers around... To toss out a few, the inexpensive ('ish, ~$200 USD) dbx223 is one of my "go-to" active crossovers; works for subs too, balanced IO, purely analog, etc. The miniDSP units are cheap and powerful for those who like to tinker. Higher up the chain are Marchand passive and active crossovers, then Bryston makes a very nice albeit expensive crossover. Have they said what is replacing the XPA-1? Is there a Gen3 in the works? Years ago I talked with Emotiva about using the XPA-1 on speakers that dipped to ~2 ohms or a little below (nominal 4-6 ohms) and they were hesitant to recommend driving that low. I bought an XPA-2, saving some money and plenty of power for me, but curious if people are using XPA-1s with relatively low-Z speakers? ESLs, some conventional speakers, and some ribbon tweeters (e.g. Magnepan) dip to about 3 ohms or below at various frequencies. I don't know if it is Still Available, but Pass Labs made a crossover which was massively flexible. And $$$$ I'd personally start my 'tinkering' with the MiniDSP by duplicating the speakers crossover as closely as possible. MiniDSP can also (in some products) support FIR Filters. These have NO phase shift thru the passband. This makes phase connections of speakers somewhat easier. I'd really love to try that on my panels. Math intensive and what looks to be a steep learning curve. For the Marchand? You need to purchase 'modules' for the desired frequency and hi or lo pass. If you want to experiment, that can start to add up. In addition to the low 'Z' of stats, at higher frequencies they start looking more like a capacitor or inductor to the partnering amp. Some amps simply do not like that and can go into self-oscillation. Not many, but it does happen. I heard it once when auditioning my MG-1 panels. The owners hooked up an amp to some 'Stats and it just went 'Zorch!' Maggies have the advantage of not being a wildly reactive load. And that Ribbon Tweeter is considered one of the finest available. I suspect the XPA-1 or -2 would drive 3 ohms all day long, since it is restricted in frequency, so not much power overall, and is of low reactance. A win-win. I have a buddy with a pair of large EMO monoblocks on the 'lows' of his MG20s. And it sounds FABULOUS. Sure, you can get passive attenuators which simply plug in-line. And fairly priced. But why ADD more stuff when all the gain functions you could ever Imagine were included in the MiniDSP? EACH input channel had a 5 band parametric EQ. Each OutPut has Another 5 bands of Parametric EQ. You can design and implement 'shelves', 'notches' and 'slopes' to your hearts content. If you even THINK you are leaning in that direction, the calibrated mic and REW would, IMO, not be optional, but ReQuired.
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Post by DavidR on Jun 12, 2018 20:27:44 GMT -5
Does anyone know how the XPA-1 Gen2 compares to the SA-250? That was the amp for me that got away. Still kicking myself to this very day for not buying one. I remember everyone saying how good that amp sounded and I'm wondering if any of the current line-up sounds as good or better. Based upon reviews I have heard, the SA-250 is hit and miss as far as quality. I have two SA-250 amps. Both have difficult loads to drive but for different reasons. They laugh at the loads. No issues with either. I have yet to drive my AR9s as I am completely restoring them . I know of two people who have had issues with them tripping the protection circuit. Out of 500 units that's not too bad. GREAT sounding amp. Great performer, too.
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Post by Jessica on Jun 12, 2018 21:45:49 GMT -5
Hey everyone, I wanted to make everyone aware that we are closing out the last batch of our XPA-1 Gen2 Monoblock class A/AB amps. They are 20% off until they sell out. I wanted to make everyone here aware first before the email blast goes out this afternoon. These last ones should go very quickly and when they are gone they are gone for good. emotiva.com/products/xpa-1-gen2We are down to single digits of available XPA-1 G2s, so if you still considering it, this is your last chance!
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,222
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Post by novisnick on Jun 12, 2018 21:49:14 GMT -5
Hey everyone, I wanted to make everyone aware that we are closing out the last batch of our XPA-1 Gen2 Monoblock class A/AB amps. They are 20% off until they sell out. I wanted to make everyone here aware first before the email blast goes out this afternoon. These last ones should go very quickly and when they are gone they are gone for good. emotiva.com/products/xpa-1-gen2We are down to single digits of available XPA-1 G2s, so if you still considering it, this is your last chance! Thanks for the update. Some future enthusiasts will surly cry for not having a set. 😢
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Post by garbulky on Jun 12, 2018 22:23:23 GMT -5
We are down to single digits of available XPA-1 G2s, so if you still considering it, this is your last chance! Thanks for the update. Some future enthusiasts will surly cry for not having a set. 😢 I am already!!
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