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Post by josh6113 on Jul 14, 2018 20:00:32 GMT -5
I've got a pretty technical question here.I run definitive 9060 towers in a stereo setup.I have an emotiva PT-100 pre amp and a crown XLS 1002 power amp.
Right now I run my towers full range with speaker wire only.My amp has HIGH and LOW pass filters.The emotiva has 2 full range outputs and 2 summed full range outputs for subs.
My question is should I leave as is or set a high pass on my amp of say 80-100 hz and run rca cables from the 2 summed full range outputs on the emotiva pre amp for subs into my towers?
Would I achieve a better sound this way possibly or will it even matter?
My towers have no crossover so it would be up to my towers amp how to handle the full signal.
Thoughts?
Thanks
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Post by donh50 on Jul 15, 2018 15:43:34 GMT -5
There is a crossover inside the speaker (several , actually, but we are talking about the internal tap and crossover to the built-in subwoofer). Definitive recommends using the speaker-level inputs and running them full-range so that's what I would do for starters rathe than adding wires. Actually, I would roll them off around 30-40 Hz, letting a sub take over below that, but my subs go deeper than 18 Hz and are situated in my room to optimize the bass response.
As it is you can equalize the speakers as a single full-range design rather than two independent speakers (mains and subs). Since they are co-located (in the same box) I don't really see an advantage in running the extra cables to use the LFE outputs; just call them "large" and go.
That said, the rub with full-range mains is that they are rarely placed in the best spot for a sub. It is very common that the best place for the subs is not the best place for the mains and vice-versa. You may find the overall sound is better with a sub or two properly positioned for bass response and with the mains (you 9060's) rolled off higher to let the subs take over and do their job.
HTH - Don
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Post by josh6113 on Jul 15, 2018 18:46:47 GMT -5
There is a crossover inside the speaker (several , actually, but we are talking about the internal tap and crossover to the built-in subwoofer). Definitive recommends using the speaker-level inputs and running them full-range so that's what I would do for starters rathe than adding wires. Actually, I would roll them off around 30-40 Hz, letting a sub take over below that, but my subs go deeper than 18 Hz and are situated in my room to optimize the bass response. As it is you can equalize the speakers as a single full-range design rather than two independent speakers (mains and subs). Since they are co-located (in the same box) I don't really see an advantage in running the extra cables to use the LFE outputs; just call them "large" and go. That said, the rub with full-range mains is that they are rarely placed in the best spot for a sub. It is very common that the best place for the subs is not the best place for the mains and vice-versa. You may find the overall sound is better with a sub or two properly positioned for bass response and with the mains (you 9060's) rolled off higher to let the subs take over and do their job. HTH - Don Thanks Don... appreciate it...I run my towers strictly as 2 channel with no additional sub or subs.The powered woofers in my towers give me ample low end for my taste. I do run full range with speaker wire only. |
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Post by rockman85 on Jul 16, 2018 13:41:16 GMT -5
Hey OP, I am not really sure if splitting your highs and your lows will fix your issue. But if I can add my 2 cents in another category, get an Emotiva Amp. I recently switched from a Crown XTI 1002 to the BasX A-300. I went 2 years basically hating my system, went through two sets of subwoofers thinking the low end was the problem (like yourself). In reality, it was using a Class-D amp designed to be used in a PA system and not a Class A/B amp designed for a Home Hi-Fi system that was the culprit. You have a 30 day return policy, try out an amp that was designed for personal stereo. If that doesn't fix your issue you cant just return it, but I have a feeling you wont.
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Post by josh6113 on Jul 16, 2018 14:37:37 GMT -5
Hey OP, I am not really sure if splitting your highs and your lows will fix your issue. But if I can add my 2 cents in another category, get an Emotiva Amp. I recently switched from a Crown XTI 1002 to the BasX A-300. I went 2 years basically hating my system, went through two sets of subwoofers thinking the low end was the problem (like yourself). In reality, it was using a Class-D amp designed to be used in a PA system and not a Class A/B amp designed for a Home Hi-Fi system that was the culprit. You have a 30 day return policy, try out an amp that was designed for personal stereo. If that doesn't fix your issue you cant just return it, but I have a feeling you wont. This is interesting...I've heard class A/B amps are more noisy than class D.Why in you opinion would a class A/B amp make a difference?...thanks for the reply btw. |
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Post by rockman85 on Jul 16, 2018 15:43:23 GMT -5
Hey OP, I am not really sure if splitting your highs and your lows will fix your issue. But if I can add my 2 cents in another category, get an Emotiva Amp. I recently switched from a Crown XTI 1002 to the BasX A-300. I went 2 years basically hating my system, went through two sets of subwoofers thinking the low end was the problem (like yourself). In reality, it was using a Class-D amp designed to be used in a PA system and not a Class A/B amp designed for a Home Hi-Fi system that was the culprit. You have a 30 day return policy, try out an amp that was designed for personal stereo. If that doesn't fix your issue you cant just return it, but I have a feeling you wont. This is interesting...I've heard class A/B amps are more noisy than class D.Why in you opinion would a class A/B amp make a difference?...thanks for the reply btw. Call me crazy but I haven't ever been able to hear what people describe as "noise" on these forums and others. I honestly think that to hear this harmonic distortion you have to be listening at a ridiculously deafening volume. As for why a Class A/B amp sounds better than D, I can only give you my uneducated understanding of what I have read, and my anecdotal experience. But a Class D amp has thousands of switches that turn on and off every second when ever they get an input signal for a particular frequency, this makes them more efficient in terms of power. Class A/B amps are running juice basically all the time (although less than a Class A amp). There is a bunch of engineer jargon that I'll never understand that goes along with what I just said but basically it = better sound quality. I was a non believer too and bought a Crown XTI 1002 for the XLR inputs and the DSP. While I could kinda get the sound I wanted messing with the EQ settings it was incredibly laborious to do so. As such I would just use it with the DSP turned off, which is how most home amps are anyway. But I really didn't care for the sound. The Crown sounded kinda flat and lifeless to me. The music was just missing something. I added a Polk Audio PSW505, as well as a pair of Behringer Eurolive B1200D's. It helped out with the low end punch but there was still something missing. The music was lacking the clarity and sparkle that I know my DAC (Emotiva Stealth DC-1) is capable of. So, after trying for a few years messing with the settings, trying separate EQ's, subwoofers I finally decided to stop fooling myself and sell the amplifier. Anyway, the BasX A-300 solved all my problems. The bass produced by this thing far outweighs the Crown, and the music now has that sparkle, brilliance and clarity that I could only hear when using the headphone output. I don't even really need a subwoofer anymore to be honest, (although I still might add one just cause). I say if you are listening to your system and "trying to like it", its your crown amp thats the weak link. A sub will give you more punch but not more quality. |
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Post by josh6113 on Jul 16, 2018 17:45:33 GMT -5
This is interesting...I've heard class A/B amps are more noisy than class D.Why in you opinion would a class A/B amp make a difference?...thanks for the reply btw. Call me crazy but I haven't ever been able to hear what people describe as "noise" on these forums and others. I honestly think that to hear this harmonic distortion you have to be listening at a ridiculously deafening volume. As for why a Class A/B amp sounds better than D, I can only give you my uneducated understanding of what I have read, and my anecdotal experience. But a Class D amp has thousands of switches that turn on and off every second when ever they get an input signal for a particular frequency, this makes them more efficient in terms of power. Class A/B amps are running juice basically all the time (although less than a Class A amp). There is a bunch of engineer jargon that I'll never understand that goes along with what I just said but basically it = better sound quality. I was a non believer too and bought a Crown XTI 1002 for the XLR inputs and the DSP. While I could kinda get the sound I wanted messing with the EQ settings it was incredibly laborious to do so. As such I would just use it with the DSP turned off, which is how most home amps are anyway. But I really didn't care for the sound. The Crown sounded kinda flat and lifeless to me. The music was just missing something. I added a Polk Audio PSW505, as well as a pair of Behringer Eurolive B1200D's. It helped out with the low end punch but there was still something missing. The music was lacking the clarity and sparkle that I know my DAC (Emotiva Stealth DC-1) is capable of. So, after trying for a few years messing with the settings, trying separate EQ's, subwoofers I finally decided to stop fooling myself and sell the amplifier. Anyway, the BasX A-300 solved all my problems. The bass produced by this thing far outweighs the Crown, and the music now has that sparkle, brilliance and clarity that I could only hear when using the headphone output. I don't even really need a subwoofer anymore to be honest, (although I still might add one just cause). I say if you are listening to your system and "trying to like it", its your crown amp thats the weak link. A sub will give you more punch but not more quality. Sounds good and I'll take your advice to heart...😀...I'll give an emo amp a try. Thanks again |
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Post by donh50 on Jul 16, 2018 18:11:37 GMT -5
There are a wide range of amplifiers in many classes so I would hesitate to draw general rules. Pro amps work great for many folk and some had hiss with some Emotiva amps due to their high gain. Class D has its pros and cons just like class A, AB, H, G, etc.
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Post by rockman85 on Jul 16, 2018 18:41:13 GMT -5
There are a wide range of amplifiers in many classes so I would hesitate to draw general rules. Pro amps work great for many folk and some had hiss with some Emotiva amps due to their high gain. Class D has its pros and cons just like class A, AB, H, G, etc. Right, I'll agree with this statement. But I see a guy going through what I went through and from my personal experience the Crown didn't sound good with my speakers and the Emotiva did. Its hard to not recommend the same solution to the guy. Pro amps maybe work with people with less discerning tastes. Also, the Class D amps that are great are probably not pro-amps, they have a lot more tech inside them that improve the sound quality(Peachtree Nova comes to mind). So no, its not just, D vs A/B. But given the circumstances I think its an appropriate factor to point out. |
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