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Post by monkeyjump on Aug 7, 2018 5:24:51 GMT -5
tldr: If you can't install your XMC-1 USB drivers, even if things still seem to work, check your USB firmware. Contrary to the Emotiva instructions, it may be 3 years out of date even if your XMC-1 shipped recently, as was the case with mine.
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I just finished days of very annoying troubleshooting so I'm posting this to hopefully save someone else a bit of time. Also I am a bit annoyed with Emotiva QC because this should have never happened in the first place. At least the problem is solved now though.
When playing my library in random mode (foobar on Win7 64 bit using WASAPI event over USB) once in a while playback would randomly stop between songs and I had to go click random play again. Of course foobar would not register the problematic song in it's recently played list, that would make things too easy. I was getting sick of this and long story short I finally discovered that any files with a Sample Rate above 92k were killing playback. 176.4k and 192k worked just fine using WASAPI over HDMI so why not USB?
During troubleshooting, I remembered I was unable to install the Windows 7 USB drivers when I first received my XMC-1. The installer failed but USB started working anyway (Microsoft drivers) so I forgot about it. I assumed this was the problem so I tried many ways to get the drivers installed, none worked.
I then remembered reading that the drivers would not install if your USB firmware was out of date. Surely that couldn't be the problem because, as the PDF states "You ONLY need to apply this update if your XMC-1 was shipped prior to the end of October 2014" and my XMC-1 shipped late in 2017! Well, guess what? Yep, the USB firmware was out of date. It was PID_1319&REV_0102. I updated it to PID_0004&REV_0102, the USB drivers now installed smoothly and I can finally play my higher res files.. more importantly, I won't keep getting annoyed/confused about why foobar was stopping on me, seemingly randomly. Success!
But...
How could my XMC-1 have shipped with USB firmware that was 3 years out of date?! Especially when in the instructions, it clearly states, multiple times, and in bold, that the update only applies to "Units shipped before October 20, 2014"?! Has this happened to anyone else?? This was VERY frustrating and time consuming to resolve and it makes me question Emotiva's Quality Control. I should not have had to waste several days troubleshooting this issue, not to mention the months of annoyance at my music stopping randomly, when it should not have happened in the first place.
Is there anything else I should check for being out of date? I do have firmware 4.1 but am now concerned it may be the BETA 4.1. How can I tell the difference?
Thanks for reading, I needed to vent and will hopefully save someone else this frustration,
-Kevin
..frustrated and relieved at the same time..
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Post by wilburthegoose on Aug 7, 2018 7:13:04 GMT -5
Are you talking about the Windows drivers?
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 7, 2018 9:01:22 GMT -5
I would have been direct with Emotiva (excellent customer support) via telephone.
The XMC is an evolving modular component, so a minor firmware configuration issue does not surprise me, but this is not the best place to solve it.
Bill
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Aug 7, 2018 10:12:24 GMT -5
I'm confused.
It sounds like the driver you had issues with was the WINDOWS usb driver vs currently shipped XMC firmware.
Two very different things!
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Post by ÈlTwo on Aug 7, 2018 10:26:03 GMT -5
I'm confused. It sounds like the driver you had issues with was the WINDOWS usb driver vs currently shipped XMC firmware. Two very different things! No, it was the USB update for the XMC-1 that he's talking about. That was updated quite a while ago to handle higher res USB audio. It is a QC issue, but Emotiva should have been contacted. |
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Post by musicfan on Aug 7, 2018 10:36:15 GMT -5
This is a wasted rant here..... I would have been direct with Emotiva (excellent customer support) via telephone. The XMC is an evolving modular component, so a minor firmware configuration issue does not surprise me, but this is not the right place to solve it. Bill Not really. He figured it out. He is relating his poor QC issue for others to read and make it aware But we know that around here anything negative is looked at as user issues and NEVER Emotiva fault. Especially you |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 7, 2018 11:00:11 GMT -5
This is a wasted rant here..... I would have been direct with Emotiva (excellent customer support) via telephone. The XMC is an evolving modular component, so a minor firmware configuration issue does not surprise me, but this is not the right place to solve it. Bill Not really. He figured it out. He is relating his poor QC issue for others to read and make it aware But we know that around here anything negative is looked at as user issues and NEVER Emotiva fault. Especially you I would hardly call out Emotiva for "poor quality control" over something like this. The company was very clear (I always thought) about the USB driver updates going all the way back to 2014. That's YOU, talking (not we, or anyone else......) about Emo. never being without fault. I had a number of settling in issues with the XMC as an early adopter that were resolved with updates and customer technical support and it was actually fun, being part of that process. Then, I shared those results on the forum later. Bill |
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Post by chaosrv on Aug 7, 2018 11:21:18 GMT -5
I think we can reach some middle ground here:
The XMC unit should have come with the correct/current USB firmware. I can't dispute that one.
That said, instead of days of tinkering and increased frustration to figure it out, it is possible this could have been solved sooner if the OP contacted Emotiva. Their QC could have been better but their CS after purchase is typically quite good.
That said, thank you to the OP for taking the time to figure out the issue and share it with everyone else.
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Post by musicfan on Aug 7, 2018 11:22:45 GMT -5
I think we can reach some middle ground here: The XMC unit should have come with the correct/current USB firmware. I can't dispute that one. That said, instead of days of tinkering and increased frustration to figure it out, it is possible this could have been solved sooner if the OP contacted Emotiva. Their QC could have been better but their CS after purchase is typically quite good. That said, thank you to the OP for taking the time to figure out the issue and share it with everyone else. Perfect post. Don’t chastise someone for posing their experience good or bad, did it right or wrong here for everyone to see. Cause the same people that chastise would be bowing down if it were a CS praising post |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Aug 7, 2018 11:23:03 GMT -5
I'm confused. It sounds like the driver you had issues with was the WINDOWS usb driver vs currently shipped XMC firmware. Two very different things! No, it was the USB update for the XMC-1 that he's talking about. That was updated quite a while ago to handle higher res USB audio. It is a QC issue, but Emotiva should have been contacted. Thanks for the clarification. Yup should have been caught. |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 7, 2018 12:22:30 GMT -5
I think we can reach some middle ground here: The XMC unit should have come with the correct/current USB firmware. I can't dispute that one. That said, instead of days of tinkering and increased frustration to figure it out, it is possible this could have been solved sooner if the OP contacted Emotiva. Their QC could have been better but their CS after purchase is typically quite good. That said, thank you to the OP for taking the time to figure out the issue and share it with everyone else. Well said (better than I perhaps). I do understand the frustration of the OP, but I never quite understand why some folks come here first, instead of the source, as you well pointed out. Bill |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 7, 2018 15:27:59 GMT -5
OK..... a little clarification is in order.
The high-speed USB interface chip we use on the XMC-1 has its own firmware. This is entirely different than the main XMC-1 firmware. It is not installed along with the main firmware and, in fact, must be installed separately via a computer connected to the USB audio port. It is also not normally updated after the unit is built.
The correct USB firmware for the XMC-1 enables the interface to operate in USB Audio Class 2 (UAC2) mode, and supports sample rates up to 24/192k. UAC2 is supported natively by all modern Apple computers, and by Windows 10 computers that contain any of the three latest versions (the "Creators Editions".) Computers with Windows 7, Windows 8/8.1, and older versions of Windows 10 require you to install a separate driver.
The INCORRECT version of the USB firmware was configured to operate in USB Audio Class 1 mode. UAC1 is supported natively by all Apple and Windows computers, so none of them require external drivers. However, UAC1 is limited to 96k sample rate.
Approximately the first 100 XMC-1 units we sold had the incorrect UAC1 version of the USB firmware installed on them.
(I believe this firmware was provided "stock" on the chips as they were shipped to us.)
As soon as we discovered this oversight, we corrected the error, updated all the units still in-house, and released an updater program for existing units in the field.
It appears that the OP got a board that slipped through with the incorrect firmware on it. Since those boards haven't changed since the beginning of production, it's quite possible that the board he received was simply on the back of a shelf somewhere. And, yes, we perform thorough functional tests at several points in the production process, and before a product is shipped...
(but we may not test every possible combination of sample rate and mode on every input and output).
It's also possible that there may be a few units around on the used market that were never updated. (Some customers who purchased them simply never had a need for USB audio above 24/96k and chose not to apply the update.)
Are you talking about the Windows drivers? |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Aug 7, 2018 15:53:42 GMT -5
Is there a way to check the USB interface chip firmware version on our XMC-1?
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Aug 7, 2018 17:20:34 GMT -5
The easiest way to check is to play a 24/192k file. If you can play a 24/192k file, at 24/192k, then you've got the right firmware. Windows 10 Creators Editions and Apple computers should play without installing any drivers.
If you HAVE installed our Windows 7 drivers successfully, then you have the right firmware (otherwise the drivers would have refused to install).
Alternately, you can check the USB device ID....... it should be PID_0004 & REV_0102 On Windows 7, you can look at this by going into Device Manager... Go into Sound, Video and Game Controllers... Right click on XMC-1... Pick Properties... Then Details... Then Hardware IDs... You should see.... USB\VID_0D8C&PID_0004&REV_0102&MI_00 (The PID and REV matter.... I'm not sure if the others may vary or not) There's some very similar way to do this in Windows 10...
There are also other third party utilities that can tell you the DeviceID of connected USB devices...
Is there a way to check the USB interface chip firmware version on our XMC-1? |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 7, 2018 17:38:40 GMT -5
OK..... a little clarification is in order.
The high-speed USB interface chip we use on the XMC-1 has its own firmware. This is entirely different than the main XMC-1 firmware. It is not installed along with the main firmware and, in fact, must be installed separately via a computer connected to the USB audio port. It is also not normally updated after the unit is built.
The correct USB firmware for the XMC-1 enables the interface to operate in USB Audio Class 2 (UAC2) mode, and supports sample rates up to 24/192k. UAC2 is supported natively by all modern Apple computers, and by Windows 10 computers that contain any of the three latest versions (the "Creators Editions".) Computers with Windows 7, Windows 8/8.1, and older versions of Windows 10 require you to install a separate driver.
The INCORRECT version of the USB firmware was configured to operate in USB Audio Class 1 mode. UAC1 is supported natively by all Apple and Windows computers, so none of them require external drivers. However, UAC1 is limited to 96k sample rate.
Approximately the first 100 XMC-1 units we sold had the incorrect UAC1 version of the USB firmware installed on them.
(I believe this firmware was provided "stock" on the chips as they were shipped to us.)
As soon as we discovered this oversight, we corrected the error, updated all the units still in-house, and released an updater program for existing units in the field.
It appears that the OP got a board that slipped through with the incorrect firmware on it. Since those boards haven't changed since the beginning of production, it's quite possible that the board he received was simply on the back of a shelf somewhere. And, yes, we perform thorough functional tests at several points in the production process, and before a product is shipped...
(but we may not test every possible combination of sample rate and mode on every input and output).
It's also possible that there may be a few units around on the used market that were never updated. (Some customers who purchased them simply never had a need for USB audio above 24/96k and chose not to apply the update.)
Are you talking about the Windows drivers? This was my suspicion from the beginning of this....a possible mix up on a board during production with the older firmware. I’m still running one of those original boards with the unused older firmware Bill |
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Post by monkeyjump on Aug 8, 2018 3:21:04 GMT -5
Sorry for the delay in replying.. I think a lot of the questions have been answered by others but yes, I was talking about both the Windows driver AND the USB firmware, which is separate from the unit's main firmware. It was the internal USB firmware that was out of date, thus preventing me from installing the windows USB drivers. I hope that is a bit more clear for those of you I may have confused. Thank you musicfan and others for helping to explain. I'm certainly not trying to bash anyone, I LOVE the XMC-1 and will probably be purchasing from Emotiva again. This was meant to be an informational post to help out the "next guy" who searches forums for solutions like I do  I think we can reach some middle ground here: The XMC unit should have come with the correct/current USB firmware. I can't dispute that one. That said, instead of days of tinkering and increased frustration to figure it out, it is possible this could have been solved sooner if the OP contacted Emotiva. Their QC could have been better but their CS after purchase is typically quite good. That said, thank you to the OP for taking the time to figure out the issue and share it with everyone else. It is probably true that this may have been solved more quickly with a call but, being a tech guy, I tend to avoid calling support unless it is something I am absolutely unable to resolve on my own. When I think about calling support for anything I cringe at the thought of long waits, transfers, disconnections, all to talk to a new hire who knows less about their product than I do... but based on the positive experiences several of you have mentioned, is good to know that Emotiva support is not that way at all, should I need them in the future. Thank you for chiming in Keith, in part, it was many of your past detailed posts that helped me resolve this (and other issues too). I did purchase the unit new from Emotiva almost a year ago, not on the used market, so thank you for explaining that I must have received one of the early boards that were never updated. That is what I assumed once I figured out what was going on. Of course, I wouldn't expect you to "test every possible combination of sample rate and mode on every input and output" and even having out of date firmware wouldn't have been a big deal because I'm used to updating things when I receive them anyway. What annoyed me was the fact that I would have solved this MUCH sooner (or updated my unit upon receiving it) had there not been several mentions that my unit was fully up to date and not in need of any USB firmware update. It really threw me off the troubleshooting track. It's all good now though. I can finally experience my 24/96 files Thank you everyone for your thoughts and input and I am glad to see this forum is so active and also to learn that Emotiva support sounds quite responsive, if anything should arise in future. One related follow up question.. the new HDMI board.. I know there was mention of possibly supporting even higher Sample Rates and DoP for DSD files over USB. Did that capability make its way into the release? Kevin |
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