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Post by alexreusch on Aug 12, 2018 2:15:17 GMT -5
I plan to use an Emotiva XMC-1 (Gen 3, when it will be finally available) as the AV processor of my homecinema. For stereo, I want to connect an external stereo DAC (Mytek Brooklyn DAC+) using the XLR inputs of the XMC-1.
My power amps are Nuprime Reference Evolution One monos for the stereo speakers and Nuprime MCH-K38 for center and surround speakers.
Question: How good is the reference stereo mode? Will it have any negative impact on the audio quality? What are the audiophile guys in this forum thinking about this kind of setup?
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 12, 2018 5:37:27 GMT -5
I plan to use an Emotiva XMC-1 (Gen 3, when it will be finally available) as the AV processor of my homecinema. For stereo, I want to connect an external stereo DAC (Mytek Brookly DAC+) using the XLR inputs of the XMC-1. My power amps are Nuprime Reference Evolution One monos for the stereo speakers and Nuprime MCH-K38 for center and surround speakers. Question: How good is the reference stereo mode? Will it have any negative impact on the audio quality? What are the audiophile guys in this forum thinking about this kind of setup? I use this approach and it's as close to a pass through with a volume knob as I've heard. Mark |
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Post by boomzilla on Aug 12, 2018 9:01:31 GMT -5
Does bass management still work in reference mode?
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Post by wilburthegoose on Aug 12, 2018 9:36:16 GMT -5
In my experience, I prefer stereo. I really like what Dirac does.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 12, 2018 9:55:45 GMT -5
Does bass management still work in reference mode? No, Reference Mode is the classic audiophile preamp without bass management or any other control (trim and distance do work). Direct Mode adds subwoofer bass management, and Stereo Mode gives you tone controls, loudness, subwoofer bass management, and Dirac. I tend to prefer Direct (for subs), but do use Reference Mode occasionally, and Stereo for lesser recordings. I think they’re all good. Edit: No distance with analog |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 12, 2018 11:22:41 GMT -5
Does bass management still work in reference mode? No, Reference Mode is the classic audiophile preamp without bass management or any other control (trim and distance do work). Direct Mode adds subwoofer bass management, and Stereo Mode gives you tone controls, loudness, subwoofer bass management, and Dirac. I tend to prefer Direct (for subs), but do use Reference Mode occasionally, and Stereo for lesser recordings. I think they’re all good. However...as I have figured out, you can run a sub in Reference Stereo if you get creative. That's what I do, and it works great. In my case I am running the fronts in full range (for what that's worth with Maggies...LOL!) and I use the sub's controls to feather the sub to fill in below what the Maggies can do. Mark |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 12, 2018 13:58:12 GMT -5
No, Reference Mode is the classic audiophile preamp without bass management or any other control (trim and distance do work). Direct Mode adds subwoofer bass management, and Stereo Mode gives you tone controls, loudness, subwoofer bass management, and Dirac. I tend to prefer Direct (for subs), but do use Reference Mode occasionally, and Stereo for lesser recordings. I think they’re all good. However...as I have figured out, you can run a sub in Reference Stereo if you get creative. That's what I do, and it works great. In my case I am running the fronts in full range (for what that's worth with Maggies...LOL!) and I use the sub's controls to feather the sub to fill in below what the Maggies can do. Mark Right, but can you use your subs for both HT and 2C if you wire it that way? I know you have the nCores running your Maggie’s, but are they part of your HT too or totally separate for 2C? My XMC-1 drives my XPA-7 and a set of B&W’s + Subs for HT, the L/R outputs also drive my VTL monoblocks and Maggie’s + Subs for 2C. I use the Speaker 1 preset or Dirac to balance the HT, and Speaker 2 preset for 2C. I can see wiring the VTLs to the subs speaker inputs, as well as the XMC-1 sub outputs to the line inputs, but that seems like a setup for some bad interactions that I wouldn’t want to temp, not to mention being very difficult to balance properly between HT & 2C. How do you handle that? |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 12, 2018 14:39:48 GMT -5
However...as I have figured out, you can run a sub in Reference Stereo if you get creative. That's what I do, and it works great. In my case I am running the fronts in full range (for what that's worth with Maggies...LOL!) and I use the sub's controls to feather the sub to fill in below what the Maggies can do. Mark Right, but can you use your subs for both HT and 2C if you wire it that way? I know you have the NCores running your Maggie’s, but are they part of your HT too or totally separate for 2C? My XMC-1 drives my XPA-7 and a set of B&W’s + Subs for HT, the L/R outputs also drive my VTL monoblocks and Maggie’s + Subs for 2C. I use the Speaker 1 preset or Dirac to balance the HT, and Speaker 2 preset for 2C. I can see wiring the VTLs to the subs speaker inputs, as well as the XMC-1 sub outputs to the line inputs, but that seems like a setup for some bad interactions that I wouldn’t want to temp, not to mention being very difficult to balance properly between HT & 2C. How do you handle that? Yes - I can. Part of my solution involves how my Rythmik sub takes the XLR and RCA input. I can set it up so that when the XLR outputs (which come from my XMC-1 when it's playing in HT mode) are being used on the sub, it defers to the XMC-1's crossover/levels/etc. and the subs controls are bypassed. However, the sub gets the RCA signal (which is does in reference stereo mode with the splitters I use), it uses the controls on the sub's amps to set levels and crossover/phase/etc. That's how I handle balancing between the HT needs and 2-channel...and again, that's thanks to a nice feature on my sub that allows that. Net, I can alternate back and forth automatically. This link shows how it works with just using my Hypex as the FR/FL amps. --->CLICK HERE TO SEE<--- See the 4th post on this link to see the feature on my sub and then the 5th for how it's wired. When I decided to try to switch between my Hypex and my tube amp for FR/FL, it got more complex but works the same. This is how is works to switch between my Hypex and my PrimaLuna amps for FR/FL...complex but it works. --->CLICK HERE<---Mark |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 12, 2018 14:41:47 GMT -5
I know you have the NCores running your Maggie’s, but are they part of your HT too or totally separate for 2C? I use the nCores when I do HT. I mainly use the PrimaLuna tube amp when I run 2C. For some music, I prefer the nCores in 2C (when more power is needed but that's rare). Mark |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 12, 2018 15:00:29 GMT -5
Right, but can you use your subs for both HT and 2C if you wire it that way? I know you have the NCores running your Maggie’s, but are they part of your HT too or totally separate for 2C? My XMC-1 drives my XPA-7 and a set of B&W’s + Subs for HT, the L/R outputs also drive my VTL monoblocks and Maggie’s + Subs for 2C. I use the Speaker 1 preset or Dirac to balance the HT, and Speaker 2 preset for 2C. I can see wiring the VTLs to the subs speaker inputs, as well as the XMC-1 sub outputs to the line inputs, but that seems like a setup for some bad interactions that I wouldn’t want to temp, not to mention being very difficult to balance properly between HT & 2C. How do you handle that? Yes - I can. Part of my solution involves how my Rythmik sub takes the XLR and RCA input. I can set it up so that when the XLR outputs (which come from my XMC-1 when it's playing in HT mode) are being used on the sub, it defers to the XMC-1's crossover/levels/etc. and the subs controls are bypassed. However, the sub gets the RCA signal (which is does in reference stereo mode with the splitters I use), it uses the controls on the sub's amps to set levels and crossover/phase/etc. That's how I handle balancing between the HT needs and 2-channel...and again, that's thanks to a nice feature on my sub that allows that. Net, I can alternate back and forth automatically. This link shows how it works with just using my Hypex as the FR/FL amps. --->CLICK HERE TO SEE<--- See the 4th post on this link to see the feature on my sub and then the 5th for how it's wired. When I decided to try to switch between my Hypex and my tube amp for FR/FL, it got more complex but works the same. This is how is works to switch between my Hypex and my PrimaLuna amps for FR/FL...complex but it works. --->CLICK HERE<---Mark Excellent work, now I remember the thread, a lot of research and determination, great job. 👍 |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 12, 2018 15:06:51 GMT -5
Excellent work, now I remember the thread, a lot of research and determination, great job. 👍 Thanks - to get to this, it took a random comment from someone here that I almost dismissed but had a second thought and said "wait a minute...I get it - I think...". Then, reaching out to Rythmik to confirm what their manual meant sealed the deal. It really helps my system reach down nicely...the only thing the Maggies can't do. Mark |
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Post by audiobill on Aug 13, 2018 5:14:31 GMT -5
"Reference Stereo Mode" should only mean minimal contacts, controls, ICs, data conversions, filtering and capacitors in the signal path IMHO.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 13, 2018 7:07:22 GMT -5
"Reference Stereo Mode" should only mean minimal contacts, controls, ICs, data conversions, filtering and capacitors in the signal path IMHO. Agreed, but with the XMC-1 it does have a specific definition. Reference Stereo Mode provides the purest listening experience, with the fewest options for processing or modifying the signal. In Reference Stereo Mode: • The output is always TWO CHANNEL STEREO. • There is NO bass management, and NOTHING is sent to the subwoofer. • You CANNOT use the Loudness Control, or the Tone Presets, or the Tone Trims. • You CANNOT use Dirac Live or the manual Parametric EQ Presets. • Level Trims, which operate in the analog domain, are still available. • Speaker Distance adjustments are active for digital inputs but not for analog inputs. • Stereo analog input signals are passed straight to the Volume Control and the outputs. • Stereo digital input signals are converted to analog then sent to the Volume Control. • Surround sound digital signals are decoded, mixed down to stereo (the Center Channel and LFE signals, if present, are mixed into the stereo output), and converted to analog. |
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Post by tchaik on Aug 13, 2018 12:33:02 GMT -5
I plan to use an Emotiva XMC-1 (Gen 3, when it will be finally available) as the AV processor of my homecinema. For stereo, I want to connect an external stereo DAC (Mytek Brookly DAC+) using the XLR inputs of the XMC-1. My power amps are Nuprime Reference Evolution One monos for the stereo speakers and Nuprime MCH-K38 for center and surround speakers. Question: How good is the reference stereo mode? Will it have any negative impact on the audio quality? What are the audiophile guys in this forum thinking about this kind of setup? I use this approach and it's as close to a pass through with a volume knob as I've heard. Mark i totally agree. stereo mode was superb. some claimed a difference between the XSP-1 and XMC-1 stereo mode, (i think it is called direct but my memory is not the greatest), but i could not tell a difference. this is why i eventually sold the XSP-1 because i felt it was redundant. i never played them head to head though. i am looking forward to my new XMC-1 gen3 or XMC-2 or 3 or whatever when it finally comes out. tchaik............. |
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Post by craigl59 on Aug 13, 2018 12:43:52 GMT -5
Have been using the XMC-1 for some time and switch between 5.1 and stereo modes easily. The computer-based architecture is superb; my only gripe is the quality of DA conversion. Hope this can be upgraded in the future.
For me, reference quality comes from 3 decisions made for my stereo setup (no XMC-1 here): 1. keep the file format in *.wave, 2. do all EQ and room correction in the virtual realm, and 3. Use only class A for preamp and main amp. Produces reference results for my DI Tekton speakers.
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Post by ansat on Sept 2, 2018 6:27:11 GMT -5
This feels of personal preference to me. I like the sound of my room, as most major issues are covered by the room treatments. Reference Stereo is my preferred choice for 2ch. Anything more then 2 channels, my preference is to let Dirac do its thing. Tony I plan to use an Emotiva XMC-1 (Gen 3, when it will be finally available) as the AV processor of my homecinema. For stereo, I want to connect an external stereo DAC (Mytek Brooklyn DAC+) using the XLR inputs of the XMC-1. My power amps are Nuprime Reference Evolution One monos for the stereo speakers and Nuprime MCH-K38 for center and surround speakers. Question: How good is the reference stereo mode? Will it have any negative impact on the audio quality? What are the audiophile guys in this forum thinking about this kind of setup? |
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Post by sahmen on Sept 2, 2018 6:40:17 GMT -5
Does Reference Stereo work in the same way for the XMC-1 and the Pt-7030? I am asking simply because the XMC-1's manual has a more lengthy and detailed explanation of the reference stereo setting than the PT-7030 manual does. I wonder whether the setting performs the same way in the two units, since they're both emotiva-made?
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Post by bluemeanies on Sept 2, 2018 9:32:12 GMT -5
Pure Direct, "Stereo Reference" are IMO just marketing terms.
Most people can't tell the difference between "Stereo" vs "Direct" vs "Pure Direct" vs "Straight" or whatever, just like most people cannot tell the difference between amps and bi-amplication.
From Floyd Toole...
The missing component in audio right now is consistency in the timbral quality of recordings. Recording facilities are not standardized, and not necessarily very good. So, the most "perfect" loudspeaker in the world cannot always sound good. In fact, we still need tone controls, especially a bass control, to compensate for easily audible spectral balance variations in recordings. Yet, many audiophiles seem to go through life thinking that recordings are flawless and that all problems are at the playback end. Wrong!
To the element of bass management...in my system I probably use my sub 1% of the time.
Simply put its not needed.
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Post by ansat on Sept 9, 2018 21:10:01 GMT -5
Does Reference Stereo work in the same way for the XMC-1 and the Pt-7030? I am asking simply because the XMC-1's manual has a more lengthy and detailed explanation of the reference stereo setting than the PT-7030 manual does. I wonder whether the setting performs the same way in the two units, since they're both emotiva-made? I am unsure for the 7030, but my testing with the xmc, the reference stereo is just your source, your front two and your room. T |
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