cgolf
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Posts: 4,613
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Post by cgolf on Aug 29, 2018 16:10:01 GMT -5
I'm pondering the price/value differences in the SQ of processors. What am I really getting when paying a large price difference? even a few $100 difference and certainly when it's closer to $1000s difference. Bells & whistles maybe, balanced inputs, room correction?? But I am only interested in dacs & SQ. I know each of the previous might add to the SQ, but will I really notice? This is not a post to get into arguments and I'm not looking for flowery words, lofty answers and definitions. I don't know about anyone else, but sometimes when I read the answers on some of our forums, I have no clue what is being said. It's above my understanding of the hobby I guess.
I just want simple to understand answers, opinions and thoughts. Sometimes, the technical is necessary but many times it's just garbage in my ears & mind!! Just me...
I've owned numerous Emotiva processors but my current is a Yamaha A860 receiver. Works well and for me, the sound is very good. As good as anything I've owned. So I'm wondering why I need a XMC-1 or RMC or other >$1000 & more processors. Is the SQ really going to be that much better or evident?
Just not convinced. However, before I finish, I will say that there are other hobbies I enjoy where I will spend more for a specific brand or type, even though they basically all go bang. So I understand spending more for whatever reason.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Aug 29, 2018 16:16:58 GMT -5
My own personal needs are for both Stereo Music and [currently] 5.1 Movie listening ... and I don't have the space to have separate rigs or even separate units (say a dedicated DAC fed into the analog inputs of a processor). So I need an all-in-one solution. The RMC-1 (and presumably the L/C/R channels of the XMC-2) using a good implementation of the Asahi Kasei Microdevices AK4490EN (QFN package), with fully balanced circuit paths, etc. is very attractive to me in this light. (Though I still wish they'd switched to the AK4493EQ (LQFP package) ...) Casey
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Post by brubacca on Aug 29, 2018 16:31:23 GMT -5
My opinion is that if all you care about is TV and Movies in a standard living room environment, then spending big bucks is not necessary. I am quite happy with a free to me pioneer with my mission speakers. Now understand that regular 2 channel stereo is unlistenable. You pay for those expensive processors if you want to have good 2ch listening and/or you consider yourself quite the videophile/moviephile.
That being said, I'd spend for something like a low end Anthem or Nad ht receiver if I had the money.
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,473
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Post by LCSeminole on Aug 29, 2018 16:45:07 GMT -5
DIRAC is one of the important factors for me. Plain and simple, it just does a much better job of room correction after room treatments that is.
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Post by bluemeanies on Aug 29, 2018 17:01:03 GMT -5
Money is relative...if you have spend it. If you don't spend it anyway😂. Seriously I invest more of my monies into 2channel audio these days. Yet I enjoy my 6.2 system in video. However I have nothing really eloborate when it comes to equipment with regards to HT. I have the Outlaw 990/7700 processor /amplifier. IMO sweet! Backed up by two subwoofers. With a Mitshubishi HC 6800 projector. Looks great and sounds great. I have no intentions of replacing anything with my home theater unless it broke which in that case it would probably be to my advantage to buy new instead of some costly repairs. My Outlaw equipment is from 2001. My projector is 6years old and my oppo93 is at least 5-7 years old. If I were to have to replace any piece I think I would be conservative when spending my money. Yet if it was my 2channel system I might feel money is no object within limits.
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Post by brubacca on Aug 29, 2018 18:39:52 GMT -5
Outlaw 990 had quite the Rep back then. I wish I had gone there instead of the Outlaw 970. Had nothing but problems with the 970.
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 29, 2018 19:39:55 GMT -5
Receivers get a lot of bad press here, to which I say it depends. Sure there are cheap pieces of crud, but some are quite good. You just need to look around. All receivers are not junk. My Denon 3805 is absolutely not junk.
But if a person is a 2 channel maximium audiophile, forget it. The kind of person that would rather go without music at all then listen to it on an 80% system. But that ain't me.
The real big down trend I've noticed with receivers over the last 10+ years or so, is that you get less bang for your buck these days. Entry level models are pure crap, and the $600 models don't have nearly as many features (or inputs etc), unless you only need 4 HDMI. You gotta spend some bigger dollars to get features and inputs anymore. Back in the 90s top of the line was $600 to $800. Not anymore.
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Post by stads77 on Aug 29, 2018 22:50:41 GMT -5
My Denon x4400 compares very well to the UMC-200 and MC-700 i had before it, and that includes using its internal amps. But I only use it for movies.
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Post by Loop 7 on Aug 29, 2018 22:59:48 GMT -5
I have separates for 2 channel but I bought a Marantz AVR for 5.1 late last year and it sounds great so I would not be surprised if I end up going with an integrated amp with a DAC for two channel.
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Post by Loop 7 on Aug 29, 2018 23:05:50 GMT -5
...and the $600 models don't have nearly as many features (or inputs etc), unless you only need 4 HDMI. How many HDMI sources do you have? I'm always curious about different people's input requirements. I have only two HDMI sources (ATV and BRD) which I'm betting is WAY fewer than most in the Lounge. (Cable TV is via Cable Card tuner on the network with live TV and DVR handled with apps/NAS).
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,213
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Post by novisnick on Aug 29, 2018 23:17:52 GMT -5
@cgolf you say your only interested in DACs and SQ from what I’ve read. So I’ll guess that your speaking of HT and two channel have equal preference. Don’t need wireless anything like playinyour phone through it and such. Definitely want some sort of room correction and room treatment. SQ starts with those two items being implemented. Best DAC in the world wont help without it. More money usually gets you better amps if your talking AVR similar or better then what your using. The Yamaha your using is actually pretty good unless your wanting external amps. Put the money into room treatment and sound tools like an SPL meter and a mic for REW www.roomeqwizard.com
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Post by jra on Aug 29, 2018 23:58:20 GMT -5
The killer XMC-1 feature for me is the ability to select a video source, then change to an audio source whilst keeping the video on. This is such a compelling feature I've standardized on XMC-1's in the house (I have 3 of them). The sound quality from them when Dirac is set up is also astounding. I started with Receivers, and still have one connected to my computer in the office (Panasonic SC-1222-K, which I used to have driving my main speakers). It was OK, but the XMC-1 is in a different league, sound and usability-wise.
Once you upgrade, you'll never go back :-).
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Post by mgbpuff on Aug 30, 2018 6:44:30 GMT -5
If you want the best for any function at any given time, you will go for separates, as uni-tasked as you can buy them.
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 30, 2018 7:54:51 GMT -5
I'm pondering the price/value differences in the SQ of processors. What am I really getting when paying a large price difference? even a few $100 difference and certainly when it's closer to $1000s difference. Bells & whistles maybe, balanced inputs, room correction?? But I am only interested in dacs & SQ. I know each of the previous might add to the SQ, but will I really notice? This is not a post to get into arguments and I'm not looking for flowery words, lofty answers and definitions. I don't know about anyone else, but sometimes when I read the answers on some of our forums, I have no clue what is being said. It's above my understanding of the hobby I guess.
I just want simple to understand answers, opinions and thoughts. Sometimes, the technical is necessary but many times it's just garbage in my ears & mind!! Just me...
I've owned numerous Emotiva processors but my current is a Yamaha A860 receiver. Works well and for me, the sound is very good. As good as anything I've owned. So I'm wondering why I need a XMC-1 or RMC or other >$1000 & more processors. Is the SQ really going to be that much better or evident?
Just not convinced. However, before I finish, I will say that there are other hobbies I enjoy where I will spend more for a specific brand or type, even though they basically all go bang. So I understand spending more for whatever reason. Perhaps you are confusing sound quality with sheer decibel output, which was the primary reason for separates. (Customize power) Bill
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,902
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Post by KeithL on Aug 30, 2018 8:31:35 GMT -5
I would have to say that, while being able to pick the amount of amplifier power you need is a major benefit of separates, as is being able to upgrade the amp and the processor separately, most people find that separates usually DO sound better than receivers. I'm pondering the price/value differences in the SQ of processors. What am I really getting when paying a large price difference? even a few $100 difference and certainly when it's closer to $1000s difference. Bells & whistles maybe, balanced inputs, room correction?? But I am only interested in dacs & SQ. I know each of the previous might add to the SQ, but will I really notice? This is not a post to get into arguments and I'm not looking for flowery words, lofty answers and definitions. I don't know about anyone else, but sometimes when I read the answers on some of our forums, I have no clue what is being said. It's above my understanding of the hobby I guess.
I just want simple to understand answers, opinions and thoughts. Sometimes, the technical is necessary but many times it's just garbage in my ears & mind!! Just me...
I've owned numerous Emotiva processors but my current is a Yamaha A860 receiver. Works well and for me, the sound is very good. As good as anything I've owned. So I'm wondering why I need a XMC-1 or RMC or other >$1000 & more processors. Is the SQ really going to be that much better or evident?
Just not convinced. However, before I finish, I will say that there are other hobbies I enjoy where I will spend more for a specific brand or type, even though they basically all go bang. So I understand spending more for whatever reason. Perhaps you are confusing sound quality with sheer decibel output, which was the primary reason for separates. (Customize power) Bill
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 30, 2018 8:41:34 GMT -5
I would have to say that, while being able to pick the amount of amplifier power you need is a major benefit of separates, as is being able to upgrade the amp and the processor separately, most people find that separates usually DO sound better than receivers. Perhaps you are confusing sound quality with sheer decibel output, which was the primary reason for separates. (Customize power) Bill Yes! I didn’t want to go there, since the O.P. is happy with what he’s got. That being said I’m certainly one of those people you mentioned for sure. Bill
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 30, 2018 10:27:28 GMT -5
The killer XMC-1 feature for me is the ability to select a video source, then change to an audio source whilst keeping the video on. This is such a compelling feature I've standardized on XMC-1's in the house (I have 3 of them). There are receivers that have this feature. This can also be done by simply running video direct to the TV and audio direct to a receiver or processor.
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 30, 2018 10:33:13 GMT -5
...and the $600 models don't have nearly as many features (or inputs etc), unless you only need 4 HDMI. How many HDMI sources do you have? I'm always curious about different people's input requirements. I have only two HDMI sources (ATV and BRD) which I'm betting is WAY fewer than most in the Lounge. (Cable TV is via Cable Card tuner on the network with live TV and DVR handled with apps/NAS). I'm one of the few here that are in the very few department. At the moment the only thing I use HDMI for is to run my DirectTV video and Bluray video direct to the TV. My receiver doesn't even have HDMI!!! This question has been asked before, and there are several people here that can max out the XMC-1 with 8. It's just something I've noticed that cheaper receivers now have mostly (if not only) HDMI inputs, with very little to no analog inputs. You have to pay more money for higher end equipment to get more of those. Bluray players are similar. Really cheap ones only have 1 HDMI output. To get 2 HDMI or analog outputs, you have to spend more.
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cgolf
Emo VIPs
Posts: 4,613
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Post by cgolf on Aug 30, 2018 13:34:32 GMT -5
I'm pondering the price/value differences in the SQ of processors. What am I really getting when paying a large price difference? even a few $100 difference and certainly when it's closer to $1000s difference. Bells & whistles maybe, balanced inputs, room correction?? But I am only interested in dacs & SQ. I know each of the previous might add to the SQ, but will I really notice? This is not a post to get into arguments and I'm not looking for flowery words, lofty answers and definitions. I don't know about anyone else, but sometimes when I read the answers on some of our forums, I have no clue what is being said. It's above my understanding of the hobby I guess.
I just want simple to understand answers, opinions and thoughts. Sometimes, the technical is necessary but many times it's just garbage in my ears & mind!! Just me...
I've owned numerous Emotiva processors but my current is a Yamaha A860 receiver. Works well and for me, the sound is very good. As good as anything I've owned. So I'm wondering why I need a XMC-1 or RMC or other >$1000 & more processors. Is the SQ really going to be that much better or evident?
Just not convinced. However, before I finish, I will say that there are other hobbies I enjoy where I will spend more for a specific brand or type, even though they basically all go bang. So I understand spending more for whatever reason. Perhaps you are confusing sound quality with sheer decibel output, which was the primary reason for separates. (Customize power) Bill I have separate amps for all speakers so no, not concerned about power. The Yamaha is basically my processor. Just wondering if I would get "that" much better SQ for 2 channel from a higher end processor, receiver or using an external DAC.
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 30, 2018 13:59:28 GMT -5
Perhaps you are confusing sound quality with sheer decibel output, which was the primary reason for separates. (Customize power) Bill I have separate amps for all speakers so no, not concerned about power. The Yamaha is basically my processor. Just wondering if I would get "that" much better SQ for 2 channel from a higher end processor, receiver or using an external DAC. I understand now that I know how you are using the receiver. “That much better” is a tough one at this level those differences in sound are incremental, not huge. Only you can determine by listening, comparing specs. and following the experience of others in forums such as this. I’ve never owned a receiver.....only grew up in a household where that’s what my Dad owned. My first new component was an integrated amplifier, then on to separates and have been there ever since. The XMC is without a doubt, the QUIETEST thing on the planet, making room for nothin’ but music. Bill
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