bootman
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Typing useless posts on internet forums....
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Post by bootman on Sept 24, 2018 22:01:39 GMT -5
OK - I fold on this one. It DID make sense to me when I started the thread (although I also expected it to be a hard row to hoe). At the moment, I've got four sets of tower speakers in the house (it's starting to look like a Grateful Dead concert in my living room...) and they span a more than 10x range of price points. Do the most expensive ones sound the best? Yeah, IMHO they do. But do they sound 10x as good as the less expensive contenders? I think not (but, as y'all have pointed out, you might disagree). And, in fact, the least expensive outdoes the most expensive in at least one area (the bass). Of course, if you're subwoofing, then things change, but for the naked speakers... Some of those speakers that are super expensive have an art like look to them so some of it is sound and some of it is looks. Looks do affect how sound is perceived by the brain.
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on Sept 25, 2018 5:09:56 GMT -5
It's hard for $$ not to factor in when buying anything. I typically start with a budget range when purchasing speakers , audio components, cars, bikes, etc. So I never listen to speakers over a certain price point because I know I either can't afford them or I won't pay that much for them. $1000 range has always been my default, good or bad. Can I get that much more for $2000 or more? Probably, but it's just never been worth it to me. I'm listening to a pair of Klipsch Fortes with Crites diaphraghms and crossovers. Total cost about $800. I can probably get something better for another grand but I'm OK with what I have. Such a subjective topic as it is with any "large" purchase. Good discussion topic!!
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klinemj
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Honorary Emofest Scribe
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Post by klinemj on Sept 25, 2018 6:40:28 GMT -5
(it's starting to look like a Grateful Dead concert in my living room...) Can I come buy and sell grilled cheese sandwiches and hand-made crystal necklaces to all the attendees? Mark
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Post by mgbpuff on Sept 25, 2018 7:39:15 GMT -5
Boom, ya got me on tower speaker pairs. I only have 3 pairs of towers. I'm a piker. Gotta get more... I have 7 sets of towers.
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 25, 2018 8:11:50 GMT -5
El que mucho abarca poco aprieta.
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Post by mgbpuff on Sept 25, 2018 8:41:45 GMT -5
El que mucho abarca poco aprieta. So you're saying that I'm just an idiot with a lot of stuff? Thanks!
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 25, 2018 8:50:26 GMT -5
El que mucho abarca poco aprieta. So you're saying that I'm just an idiot with a lot of stuff? Thanks! El que se pica es porque ají come.
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Post by boomzilla on Sept 25, 2018 8:52:30 GMT -5
Looks do affect how sound is perceived by the brain.
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Post by boomzilla on Sept 25, 2018 8:54:24 GMT -5
I think we have a WINNER! LOL
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Post by mgbpuff on Sept 25, 2018 9:06:04 GMT -5
So you're saying that I'm just an idiot with a lot of stuff? Thanks! El que se pica es porque ají come. So, stop eating chile if it makes you snippy.
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Post by mfeust on Sept 25, 2018 9:58:10 GMT -5
I choose $4k because I bought a pair of used Chario Sovrans that normally retail for $20k. I think I got a great value. That's both objective and subjective.
Mark
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bootman
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Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
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Post by bootman on Sept 25, 2018 12:46:13 GMT -5
Looks do affect how sound is perceived by the brain. lol I was thinking along a more scientific study.
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 25, 2018 15:08:42 GMT -5
lol I was thinking along a more scientific study. He is so ugly I couldn't hear anything...Ba va ba va ba va fa pha gha tha..😂
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Post by davidl81 on Sept 25, 2018 15:38:12 GMT -5
One thing that makes this hard to answer (at least for me) is the ability to hear various speakers connected to the same source (input device, pre/pro, amp etc) at the same time (A/B comparison) to really see if I can hear a difference in speakers. There are very few places where you can walk into a store/shop and say"I want to listen to these $1000 XYZ speakers then switch them (not changing anything but the speakers) to these $2500 ABC speakers. Thus may times when listing to different speakers it may be in different stores or different peoples homes etc. Now we have a huge amount of variables (acoustics, input quality, amp quality etc) that will change the listening experience dramatically. In a perfect world I would be able to try three or four different sets of speakers in my home and see which ones I like best, but for the most part that is very hard to do.
All of the being said I really can't tell you if my current Mirage OMD-28's are all that much better than my old Infinity Beta 50's that I had. The mirage's I have now sound much better, but I am running them through a (sorta) top of the line pre-pro into a Emotiva DR-2 amp in a room that is acoustically treated. My old Infinity's were ran off of an Onkyo AVR back in the day.
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Post by craigl59 on Sept 25, 2018 16:50:15 GMT -5
davidl81: Have had the same issues as you with auditioning speakers, have tried to do so in certain stores still in existence in my areas, and find that I could not make an accurate decision. SO... Have settled on a different approach. Have looked at very simple design characteristics and decided, for my tastes, that having a large amount of radiating space from each speaker makes it possible for dense orchestral textures to be realized (and more easily realized). Second, have decided to purchase quality speakers then keep them for 10 or more years. Consequently, I want spare drivers to be available now and, preferably, when I need them later on. Those of us who have had to replace originals with substitutes that are "like the original:" know the problems this causes. Third, have experimented with subwoofers for years and found they confuse the soundstage for bass instruments. So, am only considering full-range speakers. With these requirements in mind, have settled on the Tekton Double Impact speakers. Bought two of these a year ago based on early reviews. Am getting ready to buy 2 more for my other place because they fulfill my listening needs so well. And while there might be any number of other speakers that are as good or better, getting a product that works for my needs is paramount.
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Post by Cogito on Sept 25, 2018 21:16:56 GMT -5
IMO Speakers have the MOST influence in a systems performance and in my case, make up the largest part of my budget (About 60%). In this day and age of computer assisted design and modern materials, fantastic performance can be had for relatively little money. $2,000-3,000 is the sweet spot. Just look at at the likes of Magnepan, Monitor Audio, KEF, Wharfedale, ELAC and many others.
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Sept 25, 2018 22:34:19 GMT -5
Certainly it is a non linear function. $1000 speakers surely sound much better (5x?) than $50 speakers, but $5000 speakers do not sound 5x better than $1000 speakers. Also, usually all of the other components follow suit. One would not drive $5k speakers with a $300 amp. Likewise surely a $5k amplifier is not paired with a $500 speaker.
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Post by pknaz on Sept 25, 2018 22:51:06 GMT -5
IMO Speakers have the MOST influence in a systems performance and in my case, make up the largest part of my budget (About 60%). In this day and age of computer assisted design and modern materials, fantastic performance can be had for relatively little money. $2,000-3,000 is the sweet spot. Just look at at the likes of Magnepan, Monitor Audio, KEF, Wharfedale, ELAC and many others. Computer assisted design helps, but the goals, trade-offs, and experience of the designer plays a significant role in how well the computer aided modeling is utilized. I've posted this before, it is well worth the time investment to watch. Floyd Toole has done many studies on what people like, and his scientific methods for determining what humans prefer in sound are statistically significant, meaning that all things equal, most people will prefer the same speaker when given a choice between two or more speakers. Floyd has also been able to determine what the human ear uses to determine preferences based on these studies, over years, with thousands of test subjects, ranging from sound engineers to the common lay person.
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Post by pknaz on Sept 25, 2018 23:58:45 GMT -5
IMO Speakers have the MOST influence in a systems performance and in my case, make up the largest part of my budget (About 60%). In this day and age of computer assisted design and modern materials, fantastic performance can be had for relatively little money. $2,000-3,000 is the sweet spot. Just look at at the likes of Magnepan, Monitor Audio, KEF, Wharfedale, ELAC and many others. Computer assisted design helps, but the goals, trade-offs, and experience of the designer plays a significant role in how well the computer aided modeling is utilized. I've posted this before, it is well worth the time investment to watch. Floyd Toole has done many studies on what people like, and his scientific methods for determining what humans prefer in sound are statistically significant, meaning that all things equal, most people will prefer the same speaker when given a choice between two or more speakers. Floyd has also been able to determine what the human ear uses to determine preferences based on these studies, over years, with thousands of test subjects, ranging from sound engineers to the common lay person. I'll add a few thoughts here on Emotiva's T2: Rory (the designer of the T2s) knew and understood the concepts Floyd talks about regarding what people think sounds good and I speculate this is why so many people like the sound of the T2s.
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Post by boomzilla on Sept 26, 2018 5:09:09 GMT -5
Well, despite the fact that the question IS totally subjective, there DOES seem to be a consensus (looking at the poll results) of where the "value for the money" curve drops off exponentially.
The results speak for themselves.
Boom
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