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Post by aleks1977 on Sept 26, 2018 9:59:29 GMT -5
Hello
can i bridge the channels of a-300 to get more power
Thanks
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stiehl11
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Posts: 7,261
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Post by stiehl11 on Sept 26, 2018 15:50:35 GMT -5
How many speakers at what impedance?
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Post by aleks1977 on Sept 26, 2018 16:48:00 GMT -5
How many speakers at what impedance? 1 speaker 8ohm per amplifier
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Post by creimes on Sept 26, 2018 21:21:53 GMT -5
The A-300 is not bridgeable, you could move up to two Gen-2 XPA-2's and bridge them for 1000 watts at 8ohms muhahahaha
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Post by aleks1977 on Sept 26, 2018 22:04:31 GMT -5
The A-300 is not bridgeable, you could move up to two Gen-2 XPA-2's and bridge them for 1000 watts at 8ohms muhahahaha 1000w to much, 250-300w will be good
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Post by donh50 on Sept 26, 2018 23:39:47 GMT -5
Bridging theoretically doubles the voltage and quadruples the power. In practice it tends to be closer to a doubling due to other limitations. It also reduces the effective load impedance by half so an 8-ohm load is a 4-ohm load to a bridged amplifier.
Since the A-300 only has unbalanced inputs you'd have to build a phase inversion circuit to drive it. And note 300 W is a doubling of power, adding 3 dB of additional headroom, which is not much unless you are clipping now. Making it sound twice as loud requires 10 dB and 10x the power -- if your ears and speakers can take it!
FWIWFM - Don
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Post by creimes on Sept 27, 2018 0:31:14 GMT -5
What speakers are you driving, too little power is worse than too much power, if you feel the A-300 is lacking sell it or return it if you are still in the 30 day trial and get an XPA-2 used Gen1 or Gen2 or find some XPA-100's or UPA-1's if you really want an amp per speaker(Monoblock)
Chad
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Post by leonski on Sept 27, 2018 1:55:35 GMT -5
Bridging theoretically doubles the voltage and quadruples the power. In practice it tends to be closer to a doubling due to other limitations. It also reduces the effective load impedance by half so an 8-ohm load is a 4-ohm load to a bridged amplifier. Since the A-300 only has unbalanced inputs you'd have to build a phase inversion circuit to drive it. And note 300 W is a doubling of power, adding 3 dB of additional headroom, which is not much unless you are clipping now. Making it sound twice as loud requires 10 dB and 10x the power -- if your ears and speakers can take it! FWIWFM - Don Quite correct ELECTRICALLY. However, I've never heard of anyone saying the new 'bridged' amp sounded as good as the UnBridged version. What makes the OP think he needs 250 to 300 watts? Very low sensitivity speakers? Huge Room? Partial Deafness?
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Post by vcautokid on Sept 27, 2018 3:03:48 GMT -5
As long as I have been doing this, little if any sound difference is noticed from bridged to stereo mode, though in some cases it could sound worse, but if the design is sound it shouldn't make any difference. Of course your mileage may vary.
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Post by donh50 on Sept 27, 2018 9:44:28 GMT -5
A bridged amp also has twice the output impedance of the unbridged version so is more affected by the speaker's impedance. Whether that matters, "depends"... It is routine for the minimum rated load impedance to be doubled in bridged mode (e.g. an amp that can handle 2 ohms normally will be spec'd to only 4 ohms when bridged). The gain structure is usually changed as well so the bridged amp may exhibit more noise (hiss). Stability may be affected. Etc.
Some amps are bridged by design so the (-) terminal is actually floating. This has occasionally been discovered by some poor user who skipped reading the manual and grounded the (-) terminal, at best shutting the amp down, and at worst destroying the output stage. I have been guilty of doing that in the past; notably when I hooked a single-ended 'scope probe across an amp's output before realizing it was bridged and so the 'scope probe's ground wire was burned in two during the second or two it took me to react and shut down the amp. The amp survived, fortunately for the customer and my wallet.
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Post by leonski on Sept 27, 2018 16:16:04 GMT -5
A bridged amp also has twice the output impedance of the unbridged version so is more affected by the speaker's impedance. Whether that matters, "depends"... It is routine for the minimum rated load impedance to be doubled in bridged mode (e.g. an amp that can handle 2 ohms normally will be spec'd to only 4 ohms when bridged). The gain structure is usually changed as well so the bridged amp may exhibit more noise (hiss). Stability may be affected. Etc. Some amps are bridged by design so the (-) terminal is actually floating. This has occasionally been discovered by some poor user who skipped reading the manual and grounded the (-) terminal, at best shutting the amp down, and at worst destroying the output stage. I have been guilty of doing that in the past; notably when I hooked a single-ended 'scope probe across an amp's output before realizing it was bridged and so the 'scope probe's ground wire was burned in two during the second or two it took me to react and shut down the amp. The amp survived, fortunately for the customer and my wallet. At least as important as an amps, bridged or not, ability to deal with a speakers impedance swings, would be the same amps ability to deal with the REACTANCE swings. No speaker is a pure resistive load and the worst would appear to be mostly a capacitor or inductor. How do such amps deal with these weird loads in bridged V unbridged state?
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Post by leonski on Sept 27, 2018 16:20:36 GMT -5
What speakers are you driving, too little power is worse than too much power, if you feel the A-300 is lacking sell it or return it if you are still in the 30 day trial and get an XPA-2 used Gen1 or Gen2 or find some XPA-100's or UPA-1's if you really want an amp per speaker(Monoblock) Chad If the +3db (roughly) of bridge V non-bridged makes the 'clipping difference', you've got other problems. Based on the speakers I see listed in posters tag lines, I doubt that more than 1/3 of XPA-1 amp users tap even part of the potential. -
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Post by creimes on Sept 27, 2018 19:10:37 GMT -5
What speakers are you driving, too little power is worse than too much power, if you feel the A-300 is lacking sell it or return it if you are still in the 30 day trial and get an XPA-2 used Gen1 or Gen2 or find some XPA-100's or UPA-1's if you really want an amp per speaker(Monoblock) Chad If the +3db (roughly) of bridge V non-bridged makes the 'clipping difference', you've got other problems. Based on the speakers I see listed in posters tag lines, I doubt that more than 1/3 of XPA-1 amp users tap even part of the potential. - Who really cares how much power someone actually needs, they sell little amps and they sell big amps, do most need big amps nope but people buy them , me included, I don't know what else to say on the matter but you always state what people need or don't need but in the end it's what they want, I still believe in more power rather than not enough as I do listen to movies and music loud at times and for me that's what I enjoy. Chad
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Post by donh50 on Sept 27, 2018 20:14:40 GMT -5
At least as important as an amps, bridged or not, ability to deal with a speakers impedance swings, would be the same amps ability to deal with the REACTANCE swings. No speaker is a pure resistive load and the worst would appear to be mostly a capacitor or inductor. How do such amps deal with these weird loads in bridged V unbridged state? Impedance includes magnitude and phase (resistive - mathematically real - and reactive - mathematically imaginary - parts). That is why I used the word "impedance" instead of the oft-misused "resistance". Generally a bridged amp has higher output impedance and is more sensitive to reactive loads.
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Post by leonski on Sept 27, 2018 23:31:31 GMT -5
If the +3db (roughly) of bridge V non-bridged makes the 'clipping difference', you've got other problems. Based on the speakers I see listed in posters tag lines, I doubt that more than 1/3 of XPA-1 amp users tap even part of the potential. - Who really cares how much power someone actually needs, they sell little amps and they sell big amps, do most need big amps nope but people buy them , me included, I don't know what else to say on the matter but you always state what people need or don't need but in the end it's what they want, I still believe in more power rather than not enough as I do listen to movies and music loud at times and for me that's what I enjoy. Chad Chad, your answer is perfect. Makes sense. People buy what they want not what they need. And this is, to me, the source of so much 'upgrade fever' I see where people worry about an amp being a step 'up' or if a certain speaker is 'better' than another. Little thought is given to goals and what constitutes a 'system'. Sure, a loud movie is cool and in some cases as intended by the producers. I do it, too. Some of the SciFi stuff is MADE for big sound. Some of the folks here have some real nice stuff. And I'll bet sound to match. So it's not 'everybody'. I think newbies are apt to go thru a searching time and IMO, will burn too much $$$ in an effort to find they don't like something or are lacking something. They might not be clear just WHAT. If I ask somebody what they listen for, I generally dont' get much of an answer. I'd recommend looking at the thread where a member here actually measured their amps power draw at certain power levels. And since he was using off the shelf stuff, like a Kill-A-Watt meter (maybe 25$) and test tones, you or I could easily repeat for our systems and get a baseline. The thread on PA-1 amps has the measured data. I'm liking those little amps for HT duties. Since they take a balanced input, you could park one behind each speaker and be good to go. Even stick 'em up in the ceiling! Code permitting? My only goal is to get people to examine what they really do need. If I were wealthy and had the space? Something from the Pre-Pro list, maybe the XMC-1 and a selection of speaker-appropriate amps. My dream system would be an all-panel HT room, but I simply don't have the space in my existing house (1220sqft) or the money for a suitable room addition. A couple years ago I reduced my system power and improved the sound. I went from a large ICE amp of 2x500 to a pair of stereo amps of 2x200. I really dont' know if it will play louder or NOT as loud, but the sound is better. More musical, and other properties people look for in a home system.
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Post by creimes on Sept 28, 2018 0:05:17 GMT -5
Who really cares how much power someone actually needs, they sell little amps and they sell big amps, do most need big amps nope but people buy them , me included, I don't know what else to say on the matter but you always state what people need or don't need but in the end it's what they want, I still believe in more power rather than not enough as I do listen to movies and music loud at times and for me that's what I enjoy. Chad Chad, your answer is perfect. Makes sense. People buy what they want not what they need. And this is, to me, the source of so much 'upgrade fever' I see where people worry about an amp being a step 'up' or if a certain speaker is 'better' than another. Little thought is given to goals and what constitutes a 'system'. Sure, a loud movie is cool and in some cases as intended by the producers. I do it, too. Some of the SciFi stuff is MADE for big sound. Some of the folks here have some real nice stuff. And I'll bet sound to match. So it's not 'everybody'. I think newbies are apt to go thru a searching time and IMO, will burn too much $$$ in an effort to find they don't like something or are lacking something. They might not be clear just WHAT. If I ask somebody what they listen for, I generally dont' get much of an answer. I'd recommend looking at the thread where a member here actually measured their amps power draw at certain power levels. And since he was using off the shelf stuff, like a Kill-A-Watt meter (maybe 25$) and test tones, you or I could easily repeat for our systems and get a baseline. The thread on PA-1 amps has the measured data. I'm liking those little amps for HT duties. Since they take a balanced input, you could park one behind each speaker and be good to go. Even stick 'em up in the ceiling! Code permitting? My only goal is to get people to examine what they really do need. If I were wealthy and had the space? Something from the Pre-Pro list, maybe the XMC-1 and a selection of speaker-appropriate amps. My dream system would be an all-panel HT room, but I simply don't have the space in my existing house (1220sqft) or the money for a suitable room addition. A couple years ago I reduced my system power and improved the sound. I went from a large ICE amp of 2x500 to a pair of stereo amps of 2x200. I really dont' know if it will play louder or NOT as loud, but the sound is better. More musical, and other properties people look for in a home system. I agree we have all been there and done that lol, I'm currently running my mains off a Mini A-100 and I find nothing lacking at all even when turning it up, could I get to the concert levels that my Sherbourn PA 7-350 put out... prob not but for now oh well haha, my first separates were UPA-1's going from the internal amp of my Yamaha receiver which was for me a huge improvement in SQ at all volumes levels. My current Anthem receiver has been powering my system very nicely, having two 18" subs takes a load of the mains as well Oh and it sounds f#$*ing awesome as well Chad
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Post by leonski on Sept 28, 2018 1:21:06 GMT -5
I'm considering sending off for what is called the ACA.....Amp Camp Amp which is a Pass designed amp of 8 watts per channel. Need some VERY high sensitivity speakers to go with it. You can build it an a 15 watt mono block! As for the amp? You buy the complete kit. Pass started the amp camp to encourage people to DO something with their hobby. People show up and leave with a working amp. I may go to the 2019 edition. I'll stump for an 'emotiva contingent' when the time comes. diyaudiostore.com/products/amp-camp-amp-kit?variant=7072933085218I suspect this might make one of the world's finest headphone amps. Amp is single ended class 'A' which means no transistors turning on and off. Each output device conducts the entire waveform.
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