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Post by freality on Oct 2, 2018 22:04:19 GMT -5
Hey, folks! Emotiva is getting ready for 11.5.8, so I am, too! emotiva.com/blogs/latest-1/emotiva-gets-ready-for-11-5-8-dolby-atmosThe question is: what's a good layout for all those channels? I'm currently and perpetually in the design phase (aren't we all) for my dedicated theater room, so thought I'd share a rough sketch of my thinking, and I would love to hear what others are planning for "beyond 9.1.6." I basically took Dolby's 9.1.6 guidelines and added a 2nd set of side surrounds (one set for each row of seating in a two-row layout) which brought my floor count to 11, then added front heights to bring the height count to 8. For subs, I did one in the middle of each of the side and back walls, then two for the front walls (between the LCRs). Let me know y'alls thoughts for 11.5.8! EDIT (1/22/19):
Dolby has released their official 11.x.8 overhead Atmos guide.
Link: Dolby Atmos 11.1.8 Mounted / Overhead Speakers SetupWhat's interesting is that it calls for both overhead and wall-mounted heights. Curious to see if they ever release a layout recommendation where all 8 heights are overhead (and no wall-mounts), or if this is it. Here's how I updated my 11.4.8 layout from this thread (along with 4x subs in a LRQ (left-right "quartal") configuration - still all vaporware, of course ): Room as it stands now: (note: the bottom-right corner (big black rectangle) is an A/C chase, so it's off-limits for my design)
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Post by Bonzo on Oct 2, 2018 22:18:12 GMT -5
Toilet area seems very tight. And no sink? From the down steps this appears to be upstairs? I think the bathroom space will be important. If it has to stay that tight, I might suggest moving the toilet to the other end of the hall, and putting in a small corner sink where you currently have the toilet.
Get back before we think to much about it.
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Post by freality on Oct 2, 2018 22:22:34 GMT -5
Exactly, this is an upstairs room. The reason I put the toilet there is that is most likely the only place it can go due to plumbing...if I can swing moving to the other end of the hall, I would totally do it and like the suggestion (I haven't finished sketching out that area, but am thinking of putting a wet bar /w sink in that area at the other end of the hall).
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Post by Bonzo on Oct 2, 2018 22:38:15 GMT -5
Yeah, make the wet bar accessable from the room. Put the toilet inside at that end and a small corner sink by the door. People are not going to want to go all the way downstairs to dispose of their liquids. Just make sure it's sound proof because hearing people dispose of liquids while watching next door isn't good either. Trust me, I have that issue to some extent.
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Post by Bonzo on Oct 2, 2018 22:40:17 GMT -5
Consider 3 seats in the front row so there is a sweet spot center. Put 4 or 5 in the back row depending on what fits.
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Post by leonski on Oct 2, 2018 22:43:41 GMT -5
Doors should be Exterior Doors for best sound insulating properties. Will building code allow what you plan? Doesn't room need some window area? symmetrical layout of subs is a recipe for reinforcing standing waves. www.harman.com/sites/default/files/multsubs_0.pdfVery well done White Paper on subwoofers, number and placement.
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Post by Bonzo on Oct 2, 2018 22:54:43 GMT -5
One more thing quick. If you can't move the toilet, strongly consider using a pocket door and move it forward on the wall. I'm a big fan of pocket doors when they are called for.
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Post by freality on Oct 2, 2018 23:16:59 GMT -5
All great suggestions, thanks! I'm interested in folks' thoughts on speaker placement for 11.5.8. I get this is uncharted territory, but since it looks like it'll happen in 2019 with the RMC-1 expansion modules, curious what others might have in mind.
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 3, 2018 1:39:40 GMT -5
My views; I'd forget the front 2 ceiling speakers, the fronts will handle sound from that direction.
The side speakers, are they paired or are you intending to have individual channels for each? If paired you need to be aware of the acoustic interactions.
The front wides are too far rearwards for the front row of seating, I'd suggest locating them further forwards (eg; the stair well level would be better).
Lastly, before locking in the speaker locations you may need to be aware of how the matrixing, synthesising, upscaling that the processor is going to be handled, since not all material will have 11.5.8 source metadata (especially DTS-X encoding). eg; what is the result of its algorithm.
Cheers Gary
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Post by cwt on Oct 3, 2018 5:59:35 GMT -5
All great suggestions, thanks! I'm interested in folks' thoughts on speaker placement for 11.5.8. I get this is uncharted territory, but since it looks like it'll happen in 2019 with the RMC-1 expansion modules, curious what others might have in mind. I would follow Dolby's recommendations for dual channels in the forward quadrant at least freality as the ears are much more attuned to sounds from the front than the rear Under prefix 4 vvv ; maybe add some front heights on the walls too; . even back heights are feasible www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdfNote ;there is a limitation for the DSU upmixer if you expand your traditional l/c/r to any interim positioned speakers.
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Post by lrobertson on Oct 3, 2018 9:31:47 GMT -5
It’s hard to say anything without seeing the manual of how we can actually assign each channel. Fully assignable has only been mentioned once by Dan and that suggests you have up to 17 ear level options and up to 10 height options for say up to a 15.1.8 setup. I agree the more speakers up front the better as our hearing is more capable of taking advantage of those but an argument against the traditional wides and for your 75 degree oriented sides are that some sound mixers purposely don’t assign wides bed channel info to create a separation between the front soundstage and rear so they will only play objects at times. I plan on a even 30 degree spread of speakers throughout the room from the front and with any additional channel I have available I would fill in between those starting from the center channel. You have your 8 heights how I would have them oriented. These are just thoughts. You’ll have an awesome setup if you stick to your plans.
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Post by skiman1 on Oct 3, 2018 11:45:53 GMT -5
Make sure the second row seats are on a riser so the view isn't blocked by front row seats. As suggested above, put 3 seats in the front row, and four in the back row. Also, check the viewing angle to the screen for all seats.
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Post by lrobertson on Oct 3, 2018 12:00:37 GMT -5
All speakers are oriented around the main lp which is in front row rather than between both rows like it shows in diagram so if he will always have over 3 people then more people in back row would suffer from being out of the prime zone. I’d say he should either orient speakers to between both rows or keep it as is and just make the choice of whether 75%+ of watching will be done with 3 or 4 people for front row size. I’m of course assuming your putting a large projector screen in to allow for a large front row. You might be able to of course do a 13.1.10 to better envelop the rear row if you want best of everything using an external sub processor for multiple subs. For my room though back row is purely overflow and I plan to have it rarely used.
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Post by freality on Oct 3, 2018 13:09:10 GMT -5
Really great suggestions! A few caveats I forgot to mention for my particular requirements: *All of the speaker angles conform within Dolby's 9.1.6 layout guidelines for the *front row* (then, I added front heights and the 2nd set of side surrounds for the back row - to answer Gary Cook : I would plan on the side surrounds for each row to be separate channels...also, I was surprised at how rearward the front-wides ended up, but that is how they need to be if I'm going with Dolby's layout guidelines...in fact, they could even be closer to the row of seating and still be within the guidelines). *The back row is my "afterthought" row...all bets were off when trying to worry about speaker placement...again, everything is tailored to the front row using Dolby's guide. *I know it kills everyone (as it does me), but I absolutely cannot have the one sweet-spot; the front row must stay as-is. This is my biggest compromise, else the room simply can't happen, & I'm sure a lot of you will understand *Was difficult to convey for a top-down view, but my front heights would be on the front wall (right above the screen, facing the same direction as the fronts), rather than in the ceiling pointing down. *Thanks for the heads-up, cwt -- the dummy I am, I was just going by the pretty picture and didn't even see those additional guidelines! I will definitely start digging into these.
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Post by leonski on Oct 3, 2018 14:58:26 GMT -5
All great suggestions, thanks! I'm interested in folks' thoughts on speaker placement for 11.5.8. I get this is uncharted territory, but since it looks like it'll happen in 2019 with the RMC-1 expansion modules, curious what others might have in mind. The MOST important thing here is to have matching timbre of speaker. Putting something like Polk fronts with Monitor Audio rear surrounds and Klipsch center and yet MORE surrounds is a recipe for non-satisfaction. At least IMO. I've heard various arguements about multi-subs but no conclusions. With a low enough crossover you could get away with different brands. Probably lower than the 80hz 'standard'. Matching speakers minimize the chance of 'localizing' a speaker thru timbre-mismatch. At least 2 walls should be doubled sheetrock. Behind the main / front and the wall over the stairwell would be my bias. You might consider some temporary scheme for placing speakers while testing. After tests are 'satisfactory', you can go ahead and complete a permanent installation. I doubt that anybody can tell you in advance what something is going to sound like or integrate just by looking at a 'map' of the new room. I can't even place a sub and stereo pair without experimentation. You don't need wacky Huge speaker wire, but in no case go thinner than 16ga. Maybe 14. Where are the electronics going to be placed? Will that space be well ventilated? Or cooled? Are you planning at least 2 or 3 New 20amp circuits to feed it all? Maybe a dedicated box in the electronics bay? Don't just 'stack' stuff up. Install a whole-house surge protector after research. Especially if you live in a lightning-prone area. Leave plenty of space for airflow. And finally? Find a good Psychiatrist. Your're gonna need one!
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Post by mgbpuff on Oct 3, 2018 15:40:46 GMT -5
I'd turn the entire room around, putting the screen in front of the A/C room (could be equipment room also). Get rid of the toilet altogether (smells, fans, flushing noises - give me a break). Stick to Dolby standard locations and beyond that try for 30 degree angular separation. This way egress will be to the rear of the theater and away from equipment.
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Post by goozoo on Oct 3, 2018 16:06:22 GMT -5
Hey, folks! Emotiva is getting ready for 11.5.8, so I am, too! emotiva.com/blogs/latest-1/emotiva-gets-ready-for-11-5-8-dolby-atmosThe question is: what's a good layout for all those channels? I'm currently and perpetually in the design phase (aren't we all) for my dedicated theater room, so thought I'd share a rough sketch of my thinking, and I would love to hear what others are planning for "beyond 9.1.6." I basically took Dolby's 9.1.6 guidelines and added a 2nd set of side surrounds (one set for each row of seating in a two-row layout) which brought my floor count to 11, then added front heights to bring the height count to 8. For subs, I did one in the middle of each of the side and back walls, then two for the front walls (between the LCRs). Let me know y'alls thoughts for 11.5.8! (note: the bottom-right corner is an A/C chase, and right above that is the intake vent) Room as it stands now: (note: the bottom-right corner (big black rectangle) is an A/C chase, so it's off-limits for my design) Speaking for the speaker placement, your left rear speaker is placed too far out near the wall and needs to be moved in a bit to line up with the FL. Your first row of side surround speakers need to be moved a little more towards the front row staying just behind the the first row of seating. I would move the wides closer to the screen to they can also act as side surrounds when playing content that does not utilize wides. Instead they can be matrixed into SS speakers. Move your height speaker placement to just in front of each row for the middle height channels and about 3 feet in front of and behind for the front height and rear height channels. This will give you 4 rows of even panning from front to rear. Do not discount the rear row as you will have a sweet spot present for both watching and listening. The goal here should be to create a space where there essentially are not bad seats. Also consider that you will need an outboard DSP to mix and dial everything in to create a perfect blend. With regard to room construction, you need to compensate for the fact that you are on a second floor and have the sub-floor double or triple layered PRIOR to soundproofing with IB clips and OSB. If the walls are exterior walls, then triple layer with IB clips, hat channels, sheetrock, OSB, sheetrock separated with green glue. Combined with a sound proof exterior door, you should be able to properly pressurize the room and enjoy the space in peace without having to worry about the rest of the family.
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Post by lesliew on Oct 3, 2018 16:34:50 GMT -5
I'm with mgbpuff, spin the room 360, Frame out that wall in front of the AC units and install an AT screen. Hide speakers and Subs behind the screen. Now you have your entrance at the back of the HT where it should be.
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Post by freality on Oct 3, 2018 16:42:46 GMT -5
All great suggestions, thanks! I'm interested in folks' thoughts on speaker placement for 11.5.8. I get this is uncharted territory, but since it looks like it'll happen in 2019 with the RMC-1 expansion modules, curious what others might have in mind. The MOST important thing here is to have matching timbre of speaker. Putting something like Polk fronts with Monitor Audio rear surrounds and Klipsch center and yet MORE surrounds is a recipe for non-satisfaction. At least IMO. I've heard various arguements about multi-subs but no conclusions. With a low enough crossover you could get away with different brands. Probably lower than the 80hz 'standard'. Matching speakers minimize the chance of 'localizing' a speaker thru timbre-mismatch. At least 2 walls should be doubled sheetrock. Behind the main / front and the wall over the stairwell would be my bias. You might consider some temporary scheme for placing speakers while testing. After tests are 'satisfactory', you can go ahead and complete a permanent installation. I doubt that anybody can tell you in advance what something is going to sound like or integrate just by looking at a 'map' of the new room. I can't even place a sub and stereo pair without experimentation. You don't need wacky Huge speaker wire, but in no case go thinner than 16ga. Maybe 14. Where are the electronics going to be placed? Will that space be well ventilated? Or cooled? Are you planning at least 2 or 3 New 20amp circuits to feed it all? Maybe a dedicated box in the electronics bay? Don't just 'stack' stuff up. Install a whole-house surge protector after research. Especially if you live in a lightning-prone area. Leave plenty of space for airflow. And finally? Find a good Psychiatrist. Your're gonna need one! I'm totally with you, dude. I plan on using all the same speakers (in-walls...I like the idea of the KEF Ci series due to their dispersion properties, and I personally like the Uni-Q sound, but I'm still searching...budget may steer me towards something different). Also planning on (mostly) in-wall subs in the middle of each side (so, x.4.x), especially given the subwoofer white paper you provided earlier for ideal placement of 4 subs for best response. I know in-wall subs aren't desirable, but I can't afford to have in-room subs getting the way of the side walkways. I absolutely agree on speaker gauge, and have used mostly 16awg over the years with great results. Indeed, maybe I'll do 14, but nothing thicker. Equipment will either be placed in the separate hallway/bathroom room (to the left when facing the screen), or in the back of the room. Yes, everything will be properly ventilated and cooled. Yes, I will have 3x dedicated 20amp circuits for the room (already wired...in fact, this is the only thing I have wired so far). Indeed, I do have a whole-house surge protector installed. Finding a good Psychiatrist is probably the best advice I've ever received on a forum.
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Post by freality on Oct 3, 2018 17:12:37 GMT -5
I'd turn the entire room around, putting the screen in front of the A/C room (could be equipment room also). Get rid of the toilet altogether (smells, fans, flushing noises - give me a break). Stick to Dolby standard locations and beyond that try for 30 degree angular separation. This way egress will be to the rear of the theater and away from equipment. I'm with mgbpuff, spin the room 360, Frame out that wall in front of the AC units and install an AT screen. Hide speakers and Subs behind the screen. Now you have your entrance at the back of the HT where it should be. I wish I could eschew the bathroom, but my IBS might not let me. Stiff-walking downstairs would be rough I might not even be able to put the toilet in, depending on how the plumbing (and cost) works out. We shall see. I've considered exactly what both you fellas are proposing, and it's still on the table. The only problem is that the resulting "room" behind the screen (and A/C closet) will be a bit awkward to sort out, since it still needs to be accessible (and nothing can really be changed from the original floorplan; the wall between the main room and A/C closet is load-bearing). This, then removes about 2.5 feet from the total room length, so my back row would be about 1.5ft from the back wall instead of 4ft (not that big of a deal, since it's not the "prime" row). Moreover, this layout might require quite a bit of more complicated duct work than the other (unfortunately, the room is already finished, so there will be a bunch of tear-downs, anyway). One big plus to this option, however, would be that it's very close to a golden ratio of dimensions for acoustics. This is the best I've come up with for that layout, doesn't include any extra channels, so 9.x.6 is shown here (maybe an RMC-2 would be in order!). I might still consider an extra set of side-surrounds for the back row (paired, not separate channels, if I stuck with 9.1.6)...but as Gary Cook astutely pointed out, I'd have to be weary of acoustic interactions, and I have no idea how to figure that out
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