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Post by TDifEQ on Apr 23, 2019 13:33:48 GMT -5
HDfury devices removed.
Watched Ender's Game 4k HDR, ATMOS: OPPO 4k HDR, 444, 24p, BT2020, 12bits: no sound abnormalities. No: clicks, chirps or screeches. 01:54:00 (hrs:min:sec)
OPPO203 ---> RMC-1 ---> LG C8 77" OLED
No EDID issues.
---> = HDfury 18GHz 6ft Cbls
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Post by Creature on Apr 23, 2019 13:35:27 GMT -5
In the long run, I think the conventional remote and menu system are dead (except for basic functions) for this unit and future processors. The team needs to come up with a viable VNC interface and stop punishing users when they have to make changes to the system.
I'm not sure I'm ready yet to give up remote controls and OSD. Though, I'll admit that I'm somewhere in the transition, having started a few years back using a 10" Android
tablet to interact with a few of the components and do see some merit. One advantage
is being able to adjust the system without the OSD disturbing the audience. I realize the
OSD can be suppressed.
I'm not sure VNC is the right interface. Apparently Trinnov uses a VNC server, enabling
the use of VNC clients. Unless I'm mistaken, the use of VNC implies the presence of
a desktop on the device where the VNC server resides. For Linux, such a desktop is
likely to be X.org or perhaps Wayland. Many embedded systems elect not to run a
desktop, sometimes for good reason.
I think the right approach is to implement a GUI in HTML5 over HTTP/HTTPS. A well
written HTML5 interface can be fairly impressive. With the presence of an embedded
HTTP/HTTPS server, it would also be relatively easy to supplement with a well
documented REST interface.
The REST interface would facilitate integration with other components and frameworks.
Example REST clients might include mobile device apps (both 1st & 3rd party), and
integrated control systems such as Harmony, Google Assistant, Xiomi, OCF, etc. My
understanding of REST is pretty sketchy, perhaps there's a better choice or plurality.
Anyhow, just some thoughts. Cheers.
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Post by TDifEQ on Apr 23, 2019 13:44:49 GMT -5
Funny. Went to Easter Services. Have to wear ear plugs because music is so loud. Took a sound meter with me and measured 108dB, max ... 104dB typical (music ... mostly bass doing this).
Explained to the wife that the EMO test tones are only 71dB compared to 108dB at church ... she laughed and does not complain about test tones any more ... just closes the door.
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Post by TDifEQ on Apr 23, 2019 13:58:05 GMT -5
Now starting up system with turning on the TV and OPPO first, then RMC-1. All from standby power. Works. Currently watching Alien 4k.
OPPO203 ---> RMC-1 ---> LG C8 OLED
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Delco
Minor Hero
Posts: 72
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Post by Delco on Apr 23, 2019 14:20:49 GMT -5
In the long run, I think the conventional remote and menu system are dead (except for basic functions) for this unit and future processors. The team needs to come up with a viable VNC interface and stop punishing users when they have to make changes to the system.
I'm not sure I'm ready yet to give up remote controls and OSD. Though, I'll admit that I'm somewhere in the transition, having started a few years back using a 10" Android
tablet to interact with a few of the components and do see some merit. One advantage
is being able to adjust the system without the OSD disturbing the audience. I realize the
OSD can be suppressed.
I'm not sure VNC is the right interface. Apparently Trinnov uses a VNC server, enabling
the use of VNC clients. Unless I'm mistaken, the use of VNC implies the presence of
a desktop on the device where the VNC server resides. For Linux, such a desktop is
likely to be X.org or perhaps Wayland. Many embedded systems elect not to run a
desktop, sometimes for good reason.
I think the right approach is to implement a GUI in HTML5 over HTTP/HTTPS. A well
written HTML5 interface can be fairly impressive. With the presence of an embedded
HTTP/HTTPS server, it would also be relatively easy to supplement with a well
documented REST interface.
The REST interface would facilitate integration with other components and frameworks.
Example REST clients might include mobile device apps (both 1st & 3rd party), and
integrated control systems such as Harmony, Google Assistant, Xiomi, OCF, etc. My
understanding of REST is pretty sketchy, perhaps there's a better choice or plurality.
Anyhow, just some thoughts. Cheers.
I second the HTML5 or HTTP/HTTPS approach. My Dad purchased one of these and returned it because he said "You need to be a computer scientist to configure this", he is an electrical engineer and has been using HT gear all my life. Making the operational part of this unit easier will go a long way to get customers to choose this over other brands that have easy interactive user interfaces.
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Post by SteveH on Apr 23, 2019 15:26:37 GMT -5
Funny. Went to Easter Services. Have to wear ear plugs because music is so loud. Took a sound meter with me and measured 108dB, max ... 104dB typical (music ... mostly bass doing this). Explained to the wife that the EMO test tones are only 71dB compared to 108dB at church ... she laughed and does not complain about test tones any more ... just closes the door. LOL, After I got my 7.2.4 all set up, I did some sound level meter checks of my family room. With the RMC-1 set to ALL STEREO, I was peaking at 106dB and the RMC-1 volume control was only at -10dB, I was afraid to any higher
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Post by Creature on Apr 23, 2019 15:37:54 GMT -5
My Dad purchased one of these and returned it because he said "You need to be a computer scientist to configure this", he is an electrical engineer and has been using HT gear all my life. Making the operational part of this unit easier will go a long way to get customers to choose this over other brands that have easy interactive user interfaces.
I too find myself a bit intimidated by the prospect of adjusting each of the output channels, including distance,
high or low pass filters, gain, and PEQ. The pass filters and gain, not so much.
I've been reading about and practicing with REW. Its option of using a timing reference output would appear
to solve the distance question. The PEQ filter generation is a bit fiddly and does tend to go a bit nuts. I'm
guessing an approach of "less is better" is the correct maxim (i.e. few PEQ filters and gentle Q values).
The other thing about REW is that it doesn't seem to be able to drive other than the usual 7.1 channels via
HDMI. I'm currently 9.2.4 and am thinking that I'll have to power things down and move channels in order
to set the extra channels, including wides and over heads.
I have to admit being spoiled by the ease-of-use associated with Audyssey XT32. You know the drill:
"Now put your right foot in Your right foot out Right foot in Then you shake it all about And then you do the hokey pokey Turn yourself around That's what it's all about"
I've watched some of the YouTube videos concerning Dirac Live. It too looks pretty easy with a suitable
amount of hand holding.
I do wonder though about whether Dirac Live as implemented in the RMC-1 (and siblings) will take care
of each channel's settings. By contrast, when I look at the miniDSP documentation and diagrams, it
would appear the Dirac is instead applied on the input channels, then the output is fed into the miniDSP's
matrix switcher, followed by pass filters, a set of PEQ, and finally gain & delay. That architecture would
imply that one still has to manually set the pass filters, delay, gain and maybe some PEQ.
The Dirac on XMC-1 videos I've watched jump directly into the Dirac Live demonstration and don't show
or state whether or not there's also some prerequisite setup to be performed for each of the output
channels. I suspect but don't yet know whether Dirac Live takes care of all of that.
Anyhow, that is where my head is at present. I hope my confusion is not contagious.
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Post by Hair Nick on Apr 23, 2019 16:14:56 GMT -5
With the XMC-1 I would usually set the speaker distances then run Dirac.
At home right now with the RMC-1, I have set speaker distances and adjusted gain so all the levels match using a db meter.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,902
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Post by KeithL on Apr 23, 2019 16:15:46 GMT -5
I just wanted to take a minute to interject something here.... relevant to this topic.
Thanks to room correction software, and computers, many of us have become obsessed with tiny details and totally absurd levels of apparent accuracy.
Back in the days when a "parametric equalizer" was a piece of hardware, and a rather expensive one at that, one or two bands were considered to be adequate for most situations.
Trying to make a real speaker, in a real room, flat to within a fraction of a dB is an exercise in futility - because moving your chair a few inches will make a bigger change than that. Not to mention the fact that there are different ways of measuring a room; each produces different results; and none is "more correct" than the other.
Likewise, while using "proper acoustic measurements of delay" will get you a very accurate distance setting... A plain old tape measure will do just fine - and many processors only allow you to enter the distance to the nearest foot anyway.
So, if you're the sort of person who sets their listening room up with precision, and actually marks the spots where the chair legs sit on the floor with masking tape, then by all means spend the time to achieve true precision. However, if you're NOT that sort of person, then try just setting those distances with a cheap tape measure... And, if you're going to use REW to set your EQ, try playing a CD with some pink noise on it, and using REW as an old fashioned Real Time Analyzer. (Connect the microphone, play one channel at a time, and set the adjustments until the bands are all more or less the same height.)
You may be surprised how far off a typical room is to begin with... And how close you can get it, with just two or three bands, and a little practice... And how good you can make it sound if you do so...
........................ to solve the distance question. The PEQ filter generation is a bit fiddly and does tend to go a bit nuts. I'm
guessing an approach of "less is better" is the correct maxim (i.e. few PEQ filters and gentle Q values). ..........................
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Post by TDifEQ on Apr 23, 2019 17:04:20 GMT -5
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Post by TDifEQ on Apr 23, 2019 17:10:14 GMT -5
HDfury devices removed.
Watched Alien 4k HDR, DTS HD MA5.1/DTS Neural:X: OPPO 4k HDR, 444, 24p, BT2020, 12bits: no sound abnormalities. No: clicks, chirps or screeches. 01:54:00 (hrs:min:sec)
OPPO203 ---> RMC-1 ---> LG C8 77" OLED
No EDID issues. Actually started up LG OLED and OPPO203 first (from standby), then powered up RMC-1 from standby. No EDID issues.
---> = HDfury 18GHz 6ft Cbls
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Post by Geronimo on Apr 23, 2019 17:15:17 GMT -5
Not sure if the current metal remote is at all like the previous ones that had so so directivity and not too strong ir levels . emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/15511Is the RMC1 more responsive with a Harmony? A bit more salient for me and a lot more I suspect ;thanks I use a Harmony remote and for the daily use functions it is very responsive. I don't notice any delay. Going into the menu functions are responsive too, there is lag when you go to set speaker levels, but that is due to the menu application not the remote. Same here. I use a Harmony Elite. No problems at all.
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Post by Creature on Apr 23, 2019 18:49:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with tape measure KISS approach. Mostly just trying to learn more about REW. The only circumstance I can think of where measured distance might not be in agreement is the case of subwoofers. Plus, I already jotted down the distances from the previous AVP, which was also checked with tape measure. So academic really.
Definitely agree with the KISS approach also for PEQ. Playing around with REW on my 2.1 office system varied wildly. The number of PEQ filters generated by REW varied from 2 to 17. When two or three, the results looked pretty good. When 17, it was a mess. When 2 or 3 filters, they were all down below the Schroeder frequency, which arguably might be the only portion of the spectrum where PEQ is justified. A house curve can be implemented with the RMC-1's trim. Anyting fancier can wait for Dirac.
Anyhow, that's all mostly about the use of REW. Not really germane to this topic of RMC-1. Sorry to take this thread off topic.
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Post by goozoo on Apr 24, 2019 0:20:08 GMT -5
@hair nick, @ Lonnie. In the hopes that this post is being read, has anyone looked into the audio clock on the chips and if there is a way to alter it? This may be what is going on with the audio dropouts in ATMOS while streaming versus playing directly from disk. It may be that streaming media requires a different audio clock setting than disc. This can then be user selectable through the menu system by the end user.
Just a thought.....
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Post by goozoo on Apr 24, 2019 9:08:00 GMT -5
Now stating up system with turning on the TV and OPPO first, then RMC-1. All from standby power. Works. Currently watching Alien 4k. OPPO203 ---> RMC-1 ---> LG C8 OLED Thanks for sharing. I’ll have to try the reverse of my power up sequence to see if that is the magic sauce.
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Post by goozoo on Apr 24, 2019 9:15:37 GMT -5
[/div][/quote]I second the HTML5 or HTTP/HTTPS approach. My Dad purchased one of these and returned it because he said "You need to be a computer scientist to configure this", he is an electrical engineer and has been using HT gear all my life. Making the operational part of this unit easier will go a long way to get customers to choose this over other brands that have easy interactive user interfaces.[/quote]
The problem with a HTTP interface is the need to save as you go long and screen refresh each time. Just think of what it’s like interfacing with your cable modem or router setup screens. Either way, some other interface other than the current methodology. All current processors are using a more functional GUI and Emo needs to adapt if they are to stay current.
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Post by goozoo on Apr 24, 2019 9:29:53 GMT -5
While I usually agree with Keith, I think there is much more to EQing a room than simply setting a couple of filters. Furthermore, EQing for music and movies are two entirely different exercises due to how music is recorded and mixed versus a movie soundtrack laden with foley effects. You are always hearing the room more than anything else. Having calibrated MANY systems over the years, our approach and centers on this very fact combined with digital manipulation via EQ (the extent depending on main use of movies vs music). Understanding this concept pays large dividends with regard to how much or little you then allow room correction systems (DIRAC...had to tie it in with this thread somehow ) to manipulate the sound.
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Post by TDifEQ on Apr 24, 2019 9:38:14 GMT -5
Now stating up system with turning on the TV and OPPO first, then RMC-1. All from standby power. Works. Currently watching Alien 4k. OPPO203 ---> RMC-1 ---> LG C8 OLED Thanks for sharing. I’ll have to try the reverse of my power up sequence to see if that is the magic sauce. No EDID or handshaking issues with simple config ... it's all 4k. OPPO203 ---> RMC-1 ---> LG OLED
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Post by Geronimo on Apr 24, 2019 10:19:00 GMT -5
I believe EMOTIVA should just focus on the remaining small, decoding, and audio bugs for now. AUDIO quality, and HDMI locking trumps everything else.
These are my opinions:
Why care about the GUI for now. Set it and forget it.
Let them work on the GUI when they get the chance. It works, and serves its purpose.
I personally don't care about how pretty the GUI is, and I've used many receivers and processors. As long as it works properly, and produces great audio quality, I'm happy.
EMOTIVA has bigger fish to fry, especially with delivering the pending DIRAC update running trouble free....
I also noticed that after 1.3, all that is mainly talked about is the GUI........Let's hear from more owners about their experiences with the audio and video. That is, after all, what it was built for.......
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 10:34:41 GMT -5
I believe EMOTIVA should just focus on the remaining small, decoding, and audio bugs for now. AUDIO quality, and HDMI locking trumps everything else. Yes, Yes, Yes. Menu and setup stuff is "set and forget" - does it need to be pretty ...not really - as long as it's consistent (even if that means it's always SLOW). If Lonnie has found the registers that are/were causing the problem(s) why does the fix work on some devices and not others? I have tried setting my devices to both HDMI 2.0 and 1.4 and there's no difference. My Tivo works very nicely, but a Samsung 4K player does DTS well and everything else has dropouts.
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