|
|
Post by thrillcat on Jun 13, 2019 19:33:02 GMT -5
Where are the parts that anyone would be unhappy about? I think it stemmed from your hitch analogy. They took it to mean you buy a vehicle with a hitch and cross your fingers that someone will invent the trailer. In reality, trailers exist and specific trailers have been announced for this vehicle, and it’s just a decision of whether or not they buy a trailer when available. |
|
|
|
Post by goozoo on Jun 13, 2019 20:02:03 GMT -5
All this talk about expansion cards for a format that is currently stuck at 11 or 16 channels with media that only utilizes 11. What people should really be asking is when they will have a trouble free unit and how these additional cards will be managed by the user given the woefully inadequate UI that is slower than anything else on the market.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,261
|
Post by KeithL on Jun 13, 2019 21:26:14 GMT -5
I'm kind of confused here. Nobody asked that, Someone asked what additional sets of balanced inputs might be used for. I simply listed a few of the reasons I've heard mentioned and a few more that simply seemed obvious. They didn't ask me if I personally would buy that expansion module (I probably wouldn't). However, I have spoken to several people who might.... for one or more of the reasons I listed. That's the whole point of optional expansion modules. People who want more stereo balanced inputs will buy that one. People who don't... won't. I can see several potential uses for additional sets of balanced inputs. - As you suggest, some users may have a separate CD or SACD transport, whose analog outputs they prefer the sound of.
(The Reference Stereo mode on the RMC-1 will allow you to bypass all the processing if you wish to do so.) - Some users many have other source devices with only balanced analog outputs.
(Perhaps something like a professional digital audio tape player... or a high-end vintage tuner.) - Some users may have one or more separate phono preamps that have balanced output.
(Not at all unlikely these days.)
- Some users may want to feed the signal from the output of an entirely separate two-channel system into the RMC-1 as well. And, for anyone whom more than one of these situations applies, having a few extra balanced inputs could be quite handy.
(The nice thing about optional expansion modules is that you only add them, and pay for them, if you have a use for them.)
Okay no humor here on this one. I usually like and appreciate your posts, but when did you join the Emotiva sales force. NONE of these reasons you list have more users or interests than 7.1 inputs or 2-channel RCA outputs. Not one. So please give me a break on me being old school and out of touch. Sorry man, you are a strong hold for me at Emotiva, but.... |
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
|
Post by KeithL on Jun 13, 2019 22:04:59 GMT -5
I'm sorry.... But I respectfully suggest that you would have been a little bit less concerned if you'd read my posts a bit more carefully... For example, in one post, I said "I talked to someone on the phone today about a similar issue... " I then went on to say... " If this is the same guy I talked to then... " Obviously, as it turned out, it was a different person... Someone else suggested that the expansion modules didn't count as a legitimate feature because there was currently nothing to plug into them. I pointed out that, much as many people buy a trailer hitch because they plan to buy a trailer, having the option of adding modules was clearly a feature. (And the fact that the trailer may not be available the day you buy the vehicle doesn't make that at all untrue.) And, even more obviously, people who don't agree with that can save themselves a chunk of change and buy the RMC-1L instead. However, you have expressed several legitimate concerns, and I'll do my best to answer them. We have eliminated many of the early problems we had with various sources. (Some were our fault, and some were happening because many popular streaming devices simply fail to comply with the standards.) But, yes, we are still working to solve several problems thats still remain. However, we cannot promise when they will be fixed until they are fixed. Rest assured, however, that we will continue to work on them until we do find solutions. We are still awaiting the final details, and the final code, from Dirac. (Apparently integrating their code with our processor has proven to be somewhat more complicated than they had first assumed.) Rest assured that we will share all that information with everyone as soon as we actually have it. In the mean time I would suggest that you, and everyone else, ignore rumors and "peripheral information from other sources". I'm sorry...But a few folks here have clearly read a few comments, taken them out of context, then decided to get all excited about them. To be honest Keith, your statements lately have done a lot to raise concern on my part. First, you spoke confidently about deewan's issue, but it appears you are confusing it with another issue and are out of the loop on his actual issue. Second, you made a statement that cast significant doubt that any expansion modules would be coming. It's a pretty clear statement from you - that now has been confirmed to have been incorrect, thanks to Lonnie. And, more than that, many people are still having issues with the RMC-1 (esp. w/streaming) and also with the XMC-1 V3 HDMI board. The last I recall seeing officially from Emotiva is "show is over folks...it's working as well as we can make it work". And, Dirac is still not out, and we've heard nothing from Emotiva (but plenty of peripheral information from other sources) about its timing, its features, and whether it will be like the original Dirac "light" vs. Dirac "full" (where to get some valued features, many of us opted to buy the "full" version). Some news about final fixes and Dirac's status/plans would be really helpful to those of us on the fence about getting onto the XMC-2/RMC-1L/RMC-1 train. I can tell you right now that I would not buy any of them until some of these final issues get resolved. I had fully planned to, but given how things have gone the past year - it put me "on the fence". So, it's a lot more than a few folks taking a few comments out of context, at least for me. In the interim, use caution in your own statements in order to eschew obfuscation. Mark |
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
|
Post by KeithL on Jun 13, 2019 22:30:51 GMT -5
I'm going to respond to both of these posts together..... AudioHTIT is correct..... And Bonzo is also partially correct...... - We have had limited requests for additional balanced stereo inputs - but that module is relatively easy from an engineering perspective. - We have had quite a few requests for a 7.1 channel analog input module - but that capability is extremely complex to integrate with the RMC-1. - We've had quite a few requests for a phono preamp module. - We've had quite a few requests for some sort of streaming module (however everyone has slightly different ideas about exactly what they want there). - We've also had a lot of requests for a multiple-subwoofer output module (although, again, many people want slightly different options). - We have had a LOT of requests for expansion modules to support more output channels. After internal streaming support, that's the most popular request I've heard, from many current and prospective customers. (It's no secret that Dolby plans to offer support for more than 16 channels in the next version of Atmos... and many of our customers seem interested). Just for the record - and in my personal opinion.... I'm dubious that there are very many two-channel or 7.1 channel DACs out there that are significantly better than the ones inside the RMC-1. However, as AudioHTIT surmises, which modules we deliver first will depend both on which are easier to design and produce and which are in the most demand. Honest question, what would be the use for the two channel fully differential balanced inputs? Would that be for some type of CD transport that had DAC's that someone would prefer to the RMC's DAC's, or is there some other use that I cannot think of. I actually use the balanced inputs on my XMC-1 to play the stereo feed from my studio mixer & DC-1. So in my case I’m taking advantage of a balanced line being able to run a long distance (over 50’ in my case). Currently I don’t need a second pair of balanced inputs, but they might be useful. Edit: I agree that of the modules that have been discussed, this is probably a lower priority, I imagine it’s being released early because it doesn’t require much engineering. You are on the right track. We did it for those who have some kind of external DAC that they want to use instead of the internal DACs of the RMC-1. Lonnie Okay Lonnie, please take this one with humor intended. Really. But I just have to say it. So people who have an Oppo 105 or 205 can use the Oppo DAC for 2 channel XLR playback, but not 7.1, because there are just SO MANY people wanting fully balanced 2 channel vs people who want 7.1. 🙄 So there could be a better 2 channel balanced DAC system than the RMC-1, but there is no way there could be a better 7.1 system than the RMC-1. 🙄 Really, I mean that with like 95% humor. Sure, there is a dig in there, but really, like I've said, I can't blame you or Emotiva for dropping the 7.1 or even more important, 2 channel RCA outputs, because its INDUSTRY wide. I was just hoping you guys would buck the trend like you did with the XMC-1. Oh well. |
|
|
|
Post by junchoon on Jun 13, 2019 23:06:28 GMT -5
To be honest I never understood the need to have the rca inputs in the RMC-1
Let me get the train of thought correct here
1) Emotiva is touting how great/easy to just have xlr outputs as there are no rca outputs
2) they promised to include xlr to rca converters in case ur power amps can only support rca with little loss in sonic
3) the same logic (of xlr to rca) is not being applied to the rca inputs yet now we are told the engineering effort to integrate rca to RMC-1 will be complicated? Is the default rca input internally converted to balanced?
Thus the birth/need for a xlr input module for someone who wish to have more than one set of xlr input
Disclaimer: Personally I need two set of xlr inputs
In any case, please correct me if I am wrong with my observation
|
|
|
|
Post by junchoon on Jun 13, 2019 23:15:54 GMT -5
Just to clarify in my previous post I am not trying to diss Emotiva or their effort in providing great products and services
There are bumps on the road that need to be pointed out from time to time
Thanks.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
|
Post by KeithL on Jun 14, 2019 0:49:52 GMT -5
Let me clarify that a bit.... Handling inputs is quite different than handling outputs. Both the XMC-1, and all of our new processors, have fully powered balanced audio outputs. Deriving an unbalanced output from a balanced output is trivial; you simply use just one of the two signal phases from the balanced output. This can be done internally or by a set of simple passive external adapters. However, because the new processors offer sixteen channels, it would have meant adding a lot more connectors, and increasing the size of the rear panel. (It's not just a matter of finding room for the connectors... it requires a lot of internal routing to get the signal to them as well.) Therefore, since many people use either balanced or unbalanced outputs, but few need both, we decided to go the route we did. Without going into a lot of technical details.... Due to the basic architecture of all of the new processors.... Adding more sets of stereo inputs, either balanced or unbalanced, isn't especially difficult... It's just a matter of switching additional inputs to the fully balanced signal path that's already there. (And, yes, the unbalanced inputs are converted into a balanced signal along the way.) However, adding multi-channel analog inputs is much more difficult... The signal paths that would allow an input module to easily route multi-channel analog input signals aren't readily available. So making a plug-in module to route them through to the output, without requiring additional modifications to the unit, would be extremely difficult. (We prefer to avoid offering expansion modules that can only be used by modifying the unit to accept them.) To be honest I never understood the need to have the rca inputs in the RMC-1 Let me get the train of thought correct here 1) Emotiva is touting how great/easy to just have xlr outputs as there are no rca outputs 2) they promised to include xlr to rca converters in case ur power amps can only support rca with little loss in sonic 3) the same logic (of xlr to rca) is not being applied to the rca inputs yet now we are told the engineering effort to integrate rca to RMC-1 will be complicated? Is the default rca input internally converted to balanced? Thus the birth/need for a xlr input module for someone who wish to have more than one set of xlr input Disclaimer: Personally I need two set of xlr inputs In any case, please correct me if I am wrong with my observation |
|
|
|
Post by junchoon on Jun 14, 2019 4:54:42 GMT -5
Hi Keith
Thanks for the clarification on xlr inputs
|
|
|
|
Post by petew on Jun 14, 2019 5:50:46 GMT -5
Will the modules be user installed or require shipping the RMC-1 back to a service center?
|
|
|
|
Post by cwt on Jun 14, 2019 7:03:52 GMT -5
At the moment - modules we're "seriously considering" include.... [/div] - add on main/surround channels (four per module - possibly up to 12 total) - streaming support (audio, video, or both; possibly proprietary, Raspberry Pi based, or both)
- additional subwoofer channels (and possibly more advanced subwoofer processing support)
- a phono preamp - additional digital audio inputs - additional video support
[/quote] I wouldn't expect the additional video support module to include say a DCI-compliant digital AES/EBU for an outboard movie server but a HDbaseT like some other pre pro's have would be welcome  If only to encourage an alternative to HDMI;s monopoly and poor distance capability  Any hints Keith as to the rather important incorporation of dts-x pro ? not particularly interested in IMAX enhanced |
|
richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
|
Post by richb on Jun 14, 2019 7:47:41 GMT -5
(And the fact that the trailer may not be available the day you buy the vehicle doesn't make that at all untrue.) And, even more obviously, people who don't agree with that can save themselves a chunk of change and buy the RMC-1L instead. Both my SUV's have trailer hitches which I use for bike racks.  - Rich |
|
|
|
Post by deewan on Jun 14, 2019 7:50:13 GMT -5
I'm sorry.... But I respectfully suggest that you would have been a little bit less concerned if you'd read my posts a bit more carefully...For example, in one post, I said "I talked to someone on the phone today about a similar issue... " I then went on to say... " If this is the same guy I talked to then... " Obviously, as it turned out, it was a different person... Keith, when asking others to read your post more carefully, may kindly suggest you do the same. You quoted MY post as it related it a series of posts I made that included a video clearly showing the dining RMC which had an engineering chip. While quoting me you made the following comment: THAT post was your first comment to my dinging RMC. You did not first post "I talked to someone about a similar issue" or "If this is the same guy". You quoted me while I was discussing a dinging issue and said the problem I was experiencing was not an engineering chip. It wasn't until later you made the "I talked to someone" and "If it's the same guy" comments. I believe my and others concerns were completely valid. With that said, mistakes happen. I understand that mistakes happen and a forum is sometimes a tricky place to keep up to date and story lines straight. After a few side conversations was perfectly fine with the explanation I was given about your post and I approved of you editing my post the way you did. But now you are putting klinemj, a long time Emotiva member, on blast and suggesting his problem is because HE didn't read your posts more carefully?!? This seems pretty ironic to me. |
|
klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,088
|
Post by klinemj on Jun 14, 2019 8:27:31 GMT -5
I'm sorry.... But I respectfully suggest that you would have been a little bit less concerned if you'd read my posts a bit more carefully... Thanks to deewan for your kind comments regarding the above comment from Keith. I've responded to Keith in private about this to avoid further derailing this thread. KeithL - regarding the 2 items below... First, regarding the topic below - this is good to know. Thanks for sharing that...because frankly, the tone of the last public comment was "we're done, it's as good as it gets". The fact is, more and more people are using streaming devices, so the Emo gear needs to work with them, period, full stop. In the "good old days", the story used to be "well, the STB's from the cable providers don't meet the standards". And, while I am sure that was true in some cases, those same STB's worked in other systems. Now, times have changed and we're talking streaming devices, but...still, the gear needs to work. We have eliminated many of the early problems we had with various sources. (Some were our fault, and some were happening because many popular streaming devices simply fail to comply with the standards.) But, yes, we are still working to solve several problems thats still remain. However, we cannot promise when they will be fixed until they are fixed. Rest assured, however, that we will continue to work on them until we do find solutions. Second, regarding Dirac, I certainly understand Emotiva is working on Dirac implementation and that it will take time. However, there's some basic info that's been asked and I don't believe I've seen an answer. Can you or Lonnie or someone provide a few insights? Specifically, we know "Dirac Live" will be coming. But, people have asking "which version?" and I don't recall any details. For example, is it Dirac Live v2? Is it the full version or an Emotiva-specific version with scaled down features like the option provided as the base Dirac for the XMC-1? If it is scaled down, will there be the option to buy an upgrade like many XMC-1 users did? And, for those of us who did buy the upgraded version for our XMC-1, if an upgrade is needed for the XMC-2/RMC-1L/RMC-1 - will we have to pay for it or will there be some special deal? While I know Emotiva will not release a timeframe for the Dirac release until they are ready to give a firm date, it seems like Emotiva is far enough along on Dirac to answer some, if not all, of the above questions. Rest assured that we will share all that information with everyone as soon as we actually have it. |
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
|
Post by KeithL on Jun 14, 2019 10:22:19 GMT -5
We already have a HDbaseT extender as a separate product. And an expansion module version for the RMC-1 is already in the works.
No news on DTS:X Pro yet...
At the moment - modules we're "seriously considering" include.... [/div] - add on main/surround channels (four per module - possibly up to 12 total) - streaming support (audio, video, or both; possibly proprietary, Raspberry Pi based, or both)
- additional subwoofer channels (and possibly more advanced subwoofer processing support)
- a phono preamp - additional digital audio inputs - additional video support
[/quote] I wouldn't expect the additional video support module to include say a DCI-compliant digital AES/EBU for an outboard movie server but a HDbaseT like some other pre pro's have would be welcome If only to encourage an alternative to HDMI;s monopoly and poor distance capability Any hints Keith as to the rather important incorporation of dts-x pro ? not particularly interested in IMAX enhanced [/quote] |
|
|
|
Post by Gerard on Jun 14, 2019 12:06:49 GMT -5
I am personally waiting for the expansion that adds XLR balanced inputs. My Studio Reel to Reel takes up the two on my RMC-1. And I'd rather have my phono stage connected Via balanced instead of the RCA inputs I am using now.
|
|
|
|
Post by adaboy on Jun 14, 2019 12:49:32 GMT -5
I'm sorry...But a few folks here have clearly read a few comments, taken them out of context, then decided to get all excited about them. To be honest Keith, your statements lately have done a lot to raise concern on my part. First, you spoke confidently about deewan's issue, but it appears you are confusing it with another issue and are out of the loop on his actual issue. Second, you made a statement that cast significant doubt that any expansion modules would be coming. It's a pretty clear statement from you - that now has been confirmed to have been incorrect, thanks to Lonnie. And, more than that, many people are still having issues with the RMC-1 (esp. w/streaming) and also with the XMC-1 V3 HDMI board. The last I recall seeing officially from Emotiva is "show is over folks...it's working as well as we can make it work". And, Dirac is still not out, and we've heard nothing from Emotiva (but plenty of peripheral information from other sources) about its timing, its features, and whether it will be like the original Dirac "light" vs. Dirac "full" (where to get some valued features, many of us opted to buy the "full" version). Some news about final fixes and Dirac's status/plans would be really helpful to those of us on the fence about getting onto the XMC-2/RMC-1L/RMC-1 train. I can tell you right now that I would not buy any of them until some of these final issues get resolved. I had fully planned to, but given how things have gone the past year - it put me "on the fence". So, it's a lot more than a few folks taking a few comments out of context, at least for me. In the interim, use caution in your own statements in order to eschew obfuscation. Mark Mark = Respect my Friend! |
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Jun 14, 2019 13:40:07 GMT -5
I'm kind of confused here. Nobody asked that, Someone asked what additional sets of balanced inputs might be used for. I simply listed a few of the reasons I've heard mentioned and a few more that simply seemed obvious. They didn't ask me if I personally would buy that expansion module (I probably wouldn't). However, I have spoken to several people who might.... for one or more of the reasons I listed. That's the whole point of optional expansion modules. People who want more stereo balanced inputs will buy that one. People who don't... won't. Okay no humor here on this one. I usually like and appreciate your posts, but when did you join the Emotiva sales force. NONE of these reasons you list have more users or interests than 7.1 inputs or 2-channel RCA outputs. Not one. So please give me a break on me being old school and out of touch. Sorry man, you are a strong hold for me at Emotiva, but.... You missed my point. I'm talking to the bigger issue, not a question someone asked. You implemented an XLR module, not 7.1. And your post above gives reasons to why an extra XLR set is valid. And my comment to that is that NONE of your reasons are any more valid than having 7.1. The arguments I've seen against 7.1 are that since NOBODY uses them anymore, nobody wants to pay the extra money to have inputs they don't use. Your own later post says that quite a few people showed interest. So I don't think the standard argument holds. What does hold, now, that you have finally admitted it, is because you didn't design the RMC-1 to handle it from the get go, now it's hard to implement. You had it in previous processors, so its not like it can't be done. Even your old bargain processors had it, so it simply can't cost that much. So the ill decision took place right from the beginning. You ARE making a module that has no more interest than 7.1, and possibly less interest, simply because it was easy to implement. No harm no foul, but I hope you can understand me not getting all excited about it. Where the extra XLR fails completely for me is that it was the perfect chance for you to add the simple RCA stereo OUTPUT that is also very important IMO. Please don't say that would have been hard or costly to implement. I know 2 RCA and 2 XLR plugs would absolutely fit. Heck, I think 4 XLR plugs will fit. You could have made the OUTPUT XLR if it had helped. But, alas, you didn't. I was hoping for Emotiva of old, where you weren't into following trends or just doing the minimum. Emotiva used to be about having MORE than the other guy, all for a lower price. Now its just having the same as the other guy, albeit still at a lower price (sort of). I'm reminded of my late Dad when I used to come home and do something stupid. He'd call me on it and I'd say, but Dad, Paul and Chris' dad let them do it. To which my Dad would say, I don't give a rats a$$ if their dad's let them do it. I'M your dad, and you will do it my way, the RIGHT way. Emotiva used to be more like my Dad. That being said, the RMC-1 is the only Emotiva processor I will be considering anymore. And if the modules don't pan out (it appears they won't), then I'll be using something else. Although, I currently, completely, and utterly, lack any confidence in your ability to actually make the RMC-1 work 99.8% properly, so in the end the lack of modules I want might mean nothing. |
|
|
|
Post by TDifEQ on Jun 14, 2019 13:45:37 GMT -5
Interested with following priority: 1. Firmware 1.4 2. Dirac ... full release including support for multiple subwoofers and advance bass mgt 3. (1) additional subwoofer channels board, min of 3 XLR ports needed (4 subwoofer xlr ports to a board?) 4. (1) add on main/surround channel board, 4 ports ... when Dolby/DTS:X supports more speakers Curious about a phono preamp. Will it support old school United Audio record player from 1973? lol  |
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Jun 15, 2019 0:41:53 GMT -5
Those of you demanding 7.1 RCA inputs.. What do you need it for?
I thought you needed it because you had an old receiver/prepro without HDMI inputs or older HDMI version.
Most bluray or other equipment the last +10 years or so all has HDMI connection or other means for connecting digitally.
Which would be prefered into this kind of highend processor.
|
|
If only to encourage an alternative to HDMI;s monopoly and poor distance capability 
