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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 20, 2019 16:40:21 GMT -5
... Since we are all talking about volume numbers, and how they do or don't matter, I will say that my 10+ year old Sony ES receiver that I have in my living room has adjustments by half numbers (at least as it approaches 0) and i find this to be a really useful feature. But the RMC-1 adjusts by whole number only as far as I've seen so far. I sure would like a finer degree of adjustment with .5 changes instead of whole numbers only, anyone else have an opinion on that? 1 dB is generally consider the smallest difference you can hear, but it does depend on frequency and where you are on the scale. I find 1 dB changes about right for me and I like not having to hit the remote too many times to get to a specific place, I also don’t ever have the feeling that (for instance) 14 is too quiet, but 13 is too loud (I once had an ARC SP-16 with that problem). I could probably live with 0.5 dB steps, but many people complained about the 0.25 dB steps on the DC-1. As cwt pointed out however, it may be what it is because of the fixed resistor ladder for the analog volume control, which is fine with me.
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Post by bolle on Jul 20, 2019 16:52:23 GMT -5
I can hear 0,5dB on a system I know well. So in general I would also like 0,5dB steps and think this is fine enough.
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Post by TDifEQ on Jul 20, 2019 17:50:52 GMT -5
Annoying and interesting behavior. 1. Install new firmware. 2. Power cycle the unit. 3. Run test tones - all lower except for the subs. 4. Calibrate to imaginary reference (your mileage will vary). 5. Have all speakers playing at same approx. level including subs. But when watching movies/tv there is an excess of bass. 6. Power cycle the unit. 7. Re-run test tones - now subs are too loud by several db.... soo I lower them. 8. Kinda sounds like the bass is playing properly now. I have installed new firmware many times now. I usually follow Lonnie's or Keith's recommendations (eg. factory reset, power off, restore settings etc.). One time I even started from scratch and had similar odd results. Soo, when I get different levels after two power cycles it doesn't inspire confidence. It seems like the register values for level settings are either being held, added to, or corrupted in weird random ways. The saga continues...Through trial and error, ended up doing level testing, backup followed by restore. Level settings seem to calm down and be more consistent using this workflow.
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Post by lukewayne on Jul 20, 2019 18:37:46 GMT -5
Since we are all talking about volume numbers, and how they do or don't matter, I will say that my 10+ year old Sony ES receiver that I have in my living room has adjustments by half numbers (at least as it approaches 0) and i find this to be a really useful feature. But the RMC-1 adjusts by whole number only as far as I've seen so far. I sure would like a finer degree of adjustment with .5 changes instead of whole numbers only, anyone else have an opinion on that? The good thing about the RMC1's stepped attenuator analog ladder network volume control is the fewer steps means higher quality resistors and wipers etc can be used [compared to an ordinary potentiometer that has no stops]. www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/stepped-attenuators/#lightbox/1/Its a tradeoff between sound quality and functionality ; the RMC1 has a full analogue fully balanced throughput so its important to keep things in the analogue domain for its 2ch analogue customers imo Wow I had no idea, what a great answer! Thanks for educating. I'll change my preference then, half steps be damned.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 19:15:13 GMT -5
The gain on my sub's "plate amp" is already at about a 3 on a 1-10 scale so nope... Turn the sub level down in the processor. The controls in the processor are far more precise then the knob on your sub so you have better control. Lonnie The new test tone levels are different. I can live with that for now. What was confusing/frustrating was that after updating the firmware and power cycling (first time) there was a 10db difference between the sub's level and the rest of the speakers. I calibrated all speakers (including subs) to 63db using the 75db test tones then checked them with the 85db test tones and all tested properly at 73db. After exiting the setup menu I tried to watch a movie but the bass was excessive. I tried -6db trim on the sub and it helped, but things weren't quite right. Soo, I power cycled the unit and tried the calibration procedure a second time. Once again the subs levels were too high (even though 10 minutes earlier I had calibrated them sucessfully). I adjusted the sub's levels a second time and as before everything checked out at both 63 & 73db. Thankfully, this time I was able to watch a movie and things seemed normal. On a whim I power cycled the unit a third time to check levels and everything tested the same as the second calibration. Movies sound right . It appears that some of the level registers aren't tracking/re-setting well with the new update. I had similar level setting issues with ver.1.3.6. I even wiped all settings and started from scratch (registers reset?) but couldn't get the subs and mains to decide on one common level (regardless of whether it was 10db too high or low).
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Post by asiano on Jul 20, 2019 23:50:45 GMT -5
I'm reading a lot about test tones and I know that's a concern.
I'm more curious about the following and I've only seen a few comments, if any, about them with v.1.4:
1) Are there any dropouts playing back any Dolby Digital or DTS formats? 2) Does the RMC-1 lose audio after you fast forward or rewind? 3) Does it play DSD (DSF files) properly or are there still load pops? I know at one point Emotiva warned against playing DSD files.
Hopefully, with the exception of DIRAC - Emotiva now has the product they promised. I realize that DIRAC is a big part of the feature set - but they need to address one thing at a time and I'm more comfortable with the DIRAC implementation once all of the other major issues are fixed. If I were to purchase the RMC-1 now, I just want to be confident I can watch movies or listen to music without any major headaches.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 8:54:30 GMT -5
I'm reading a lot about test tones and I know that's a concern. I'm more curious about the following and I've only seen a few comments, if any, about them with v.1.4: 1) Are there any dropouts playing back any Dolby Digital or DTS formats? 2) Does the RMC-1 lose audio after you fast forward or rewind? 3) Does it play DSD (DSF files) properly or are there still load pops? I know at one point Emotiva warned against playing DSD files. Hopefully, with the exception of DIRAC - Emotiva now has the product they promised. I realize that DIRAC is a big part of the feature set - but they need to address one thing at a time and I'm more comfortable with the DIRAC implementation once all of the other major issues are fixed. If I were to purchase the RMC-1 now, I just want to be confident I can watch movies or listen to music without any major headaches. #1 - haven't experienced any dropouts on either my cable box or sony 4k player. #2 - With ver. 1.4 RMC-1 seems to lock onto audio stream more quickly/reliably after ff/rew. Used to have occasional audio loss when cable source switched from pcm 2.0 to 5.0 (Dolby Digital) - this problem seems also to be fixed. #3 Haven't tried so I don't know. As for Dirac - my system sounds soo good even without it that I don't mind. Once I hear Dirac though..... I "might" be a little perturbed that we've lived without it for so long .
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Post by Geronimo on Jul 21, 2019 13:39:17 GMT -5
I'm just finding a slight delay to lock on to PCM source sound in Stereo and multichannel, but once it locks on, it is good until there is a long pause, then it does the same a slight delay, so I lose the 1st second of audio on most things while the RMC-1 is trying to lock on. I believe Lonnie has come out and said this is currently being improved upon, so just bringing it up to emphasize this little firmware quirk, as it is annoying when FF or Rewinding. It was fixed in previous firmwares. Other than that, no dropouts in decoding Hi Def Bitstream so far.
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Post by SOWK on Jul 21, 2019 13:48:29 GMT -5
KeithL and Lonnie
When trying to "fix" the LFE issue.
Please keep these bass management/LFE rules in mind.
LFE information is boosted 10dB at the processor for the .1 channel ONLY crossover information sent to the .1 channel from the speakers set to small are NOT boosted 10dB (Low Pass filter)
Real world example:
If you externally send a 75dB full bandwidth pink noise signal into the .1 LFE channel directly it should be outputting 85dB. If you externally send a 75dB full bandwidth pink noise signal into any channel set to small (Do 200hz crossover) and unplug that speaker but leave the sub plugged in, it should be outputting 75dB.
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Post by hsamwel on Jul 21, 2019 14:37:21 GMT -5
I haven’t had much time to test yet. But much faster interface, no audio dropouts, lot less small quirks and boosted bass. Fantastic update!
I would still like to have faster input and mode changes. Other than that, Dirac seems to be the only major issue left or feature missing.
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klinemj
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Honorary Emofest Scribe
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Post by klinemj on Jul 21, 2019 15:38:59 GMT -5
It's great to hear some very good reports. Seems like it's getting really, really close.
Mark
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Post by tabbycph on Jul 21, 2019 15:41:36 GMT -5
No dropouts here and much faster in general and also to lock onto hdmi, happy now.
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Post by Thunderduck on Jul 21, 2019 16:06:42 GMT -5
With all the positive feedback on firmware 1.4 results, decided to join the RMC-1 club and take advantage of the XMC-1 upgrade program. Emotiva received my XMC-1 this past Friday. Really looking forward to receiving my RMC-1 this coming week.
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Post by deewan on Jul 21, 2019 17:36:38 GMT -5
Against my better judgement I installed the RMC into my equipment rack again after reading some positive notes on FW 1.4. Took me all of 5 minutes to decide to take the RMC back out and put the stable 8805 back in. The new test tone levels are different. I can live with that for now. What was confusing/frustrating was that after updating the firmware and power cycling (first time) there was a 10db difference between the sub's level and the rest of the speakers. I calibrated all speakers (including subs) to 63db using the 75db test tones then checked them with the 85db test tones and all tested properly at 73db. After exiting the setup menu I tried to watch a movie but the bass was excessive. I tried -6db trim on the sub and it helped, but things weren't quite right. Soo, I power cycled the unit and tried the calibration procedure a second time. Once again the subs levels were too high (even though 10 minutes earlier I had calibrated them sucessfully). I adjusted the sub's levels a second time and as before everything checked out at both 63 & 73db. Thankfully, this time I was able to watch a movie and things seemed normal. On a whim I power cycled the unit a third time to check levels and everything tested the same as the second calibration. Movies sound right . It appears that some of the level registers aren't tracking/re-setting well with the new update. I had similar level setting issues with ver.1.3.6. I even wiped all settings and started from scratch (registers reset?) but couldn't get the subs and mains to decide on one common level (regardless of whether it was 10db too high or low). I had reported to Emotiva (Damon) several times that the mono sub channel would become inactive while exiting out of the internal test tone menu and the speaker presets. I was told this issue was resolved and involved making sure the RMC was setting all channels back to their pre-test tone on/off settings dependent on the speaker preset. I'm guessing while fixing that issue, they have created another one. I too level set all my channels. Like many others I began watching a Blu-Ray and the sub seemed really hot. I switching to Cable TV and experienced another instance of the sub being really hot. But when I switched to AppleTV which changes my speaker preset, the sub went to it's calibrated level. I did a few tests and could consistently get the sub to change level from being +10db hot to normal by changing my speaker presets. So I don't believe the reseting or power cycling is the resolution, I believe it's something in the RMC's speaker preset commands. Emotiva will need to look at this again! I'm reading a lot about test tones and I know that's a concern. I'm more curious about the following and I've only seen a few comments, if any, about them with v.1.4: 1) Are there any dropouts playing back any Dolby Digital or DTS formats? 2) Does the RMC-1 lose audio after you fast forward or rewind? 3) Does it play DSD (DSF files) properly or are there still load pops? I know at one point Emotiva warned against playing DSD files. Hopefully, with the exception of DIRAC - Emotiva now has the product they promised. I realize that DIRAC is a big part of the feature set - but they need to address one thing at a time and I'm more comfortable with the DIRAC implementation once all of the other major issues are fixed. If I were to purchase the RMC-1 now, I just want to be confident I can watch movies or listen to music without any major headaches. No dropouts, however I've only attempted 30 seconds of Justice League UHD before hearing distortion in my middle overhead speakers while listening to the Atmos track. I was told by Damon this was resolved. This video proves otherwise. I've done a complete reset on the RMC twice. I've power cycled the Oppo, RMC, JVC and I've reset the hdmi connections... after all of that the audio still results with this... Again, I changed the connections of the RMC and speakers and the crackle/static followed the RMC output channel, not the speakers or amp channel so it is 100% RMC related. I've also tested the Marantz 8805 and the Marnatz does not have a crackle in in the middle overhead speakers. Only common denominator is the RMC. Oh, I also lost audio twice while skipping around on Cable TV channels. These issues were found in about 15 minutes of total use and I made the decision to quit looking and get the 8805 back in the stack.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 21, 2019 17:40:43 GMT -5
With all the positive feedback on firmware 1.4 results, decided to join the RMC-1 club and take advantage of the XMC-1 upgrade program. Emotiva received my XMC-1 this past Friday. Really looking forward to receiving my RMC-1 this coming week. Congratulations! So we’re you given any option to have your RMC-1 shipped to you first (presumably paying full price), and then getting a credit when you return your XMC-1? If you take advantage of the upgrade / trade in, do you forfeit your evaluation period? These questions should probably be asked in the trade in thread, but no one has posted there yet.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,222
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Post by novisnick on Jul 21, 2019 18:29:17 GMT -5
With all the positive feedback on firmware 1.4 results, decided to join the RMC-1 club and take advantage of the XMC-1 upgrade program. Emotiva received my XMC-1 this past Friday. Really looking forward to receiving my RMC-1 this coming week. I honestly believe you will be very happy with your choice! Enjoy !
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
admin
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
Posts: 6,999
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Post by Lonnie on Jul 21, 2019 19:37:01 GMT -5
Against my better judgement I installed the RMC into my equipment rack again after reading some positive notes on FW 1.4. Took me all of 5 minutes to decide to take the RMC back out and put the stable 8805 back in. The new test tone levels are different. I can live with that for now. What was confusing/frustrating was that after updating the firmware and power cycling (first time) there was a 10db difference between the sub's level and the rest of the speakers. I calibrated all speakers (including subs) to 63db using the 75db test tones then checked them with the 85db test tones and all tested properly at 73db. After exiting the setup menu I tried to watch a movie but the bass was excessive. I tried -6db trim on the sub and it helped, but things weren't quite right. Soo, I power cycled the unit and tried the calibration procedure a second time. Once again the subs levels were too high (even though 10 minutes earlier I had calibrated them sucessfully). I adjusted the sub's levels a second time and as before everything checked out at both 63 & 73db. Thankfully, this time I was able to watch a movie and things seemed normal. On a whim I power cycled the unit a third time to check levels and everything tested the same as the second calibration. Movies sound right . It appears that some of the level registers aren't tracking/re-setting well with the new update. I had similar level setting issues with ver.1.3.6. I even wiped all settings and started from scratch (registers reset?) but couldn't get the subs and mains to decide on one common level (regardless of whether it was 10db too high or low). I had reported to Emotiva (Damon) several times that the mono sub channel would become inactive while exiting out of the internal test tone menu and the speaker presets. I was told this issue was resolved and involved making sure the RMC was setting all channels back to their pre-test tone on/off settings dependent on the speaker preset. I'm guessing while fixing that issue, they have created another one. I too level set all my channels. Like many others I began watching a Blu-Ray and the sub seemed really hot. I switching to Cable TV and experienced another instance of the sub being really hot. But when I switched to AppleTV which changes my speaker preset, the sub went to it's calibrated level. I did a few tests and could consistently get the sub to change level from being +10db hot to normal by changing my speaker presets. So I don't believe the reseting or power cycling is the resolution, I believe it's something in the RMC's speaker preset commands. Emotiva will need to look at this again! I'm reading a lot about test tones and I know that's a concern. I'm more curious about the following and I've only seen a few comments, if any, about them with v.1.4: 1) Are there any dropouts playing back any Dolby Digital or DTS formats? 2) Does the RMC-1 lose audio after you fast forward or rewind? 3) Does it play DSD (DSF files) properly or are there still load pops? I know at one point Emotiva warned against playing DSD files. Hopefully, with the exception of DIRAC - Emotiva now has the product they promised. I realize that DIRAC is a big part of the feature set - but they need to address one thing at a time and I'm more comfortable with the DIRAC implementation once all of the other major issues are fixed. If I were to purchase the RMC-1 now, I just want to be confident I can watch movies or listen to music without any major headaches. No dropouts, however I've only attempted 30 seconds of Justice League UHD before hearing distortion in my middle overhead speakers while listening to the Atmos track. I was told by Damon this was resolved. This video proves otherwise. I've done a complete reset on the RMC twice. I've power cycled the Oppo, RMC, JVC and I've reset the hdmi connections... after all of that the audio still results with this... Again, I changed the connections of the RMC and speakers and the crackle/static followed the RMC output channel, not the speakers or amp channel so it is 100% RMC related. I've also tested the Marantz 8805 and the Marnatz does not have a crackle in in the middle overhead speakers. Only common denominator is the RMC. Oh, I also lost audio twice while skipping around on Cable TV channels. These issues were found in about 15 minutes of total use and I made the decision to quit looking and get the 8805 back in the stack. I’m truly sorry for the issues you still have. As much as I want to please everyone I at a loss what to do now. I have swapped out your unit multiple times and put everything on the back burner so we could work on your problems. To date I have devoted well over a 1000 man hours of my teams resources working to find solutions to no avail. What doesn’t make since is that no one else has these issues so I am truly at a loss and not sure if we will be able to find solutions for you but will continue to work on it. Lonnie
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DYohn
Emo VIPs
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Post by DYohn on Jul 21, 2019 19:48:46 GMT -5
I’m truly sorry for the issues you still have. As much as I want to please everyone I at a loss what to do now. I have swapped out your unit multiple times and put everything on the back burner so we could work on your problems. To date I have devoted well over a 1000 man hours of my teams resources working to find solutions to no avail. What doesn’t make since is that no one else has these issues so I am truly at a loss and not sure if we will be able to find solutions for you but will continue to work on it. Lonnie Would you like some advise from someone not in your industry any longer but who has plenty f experience dealing with similar strange individual and non-reproducible issues from a single customer? Issue a full refund and move along.
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Post by hsamwel on Jul 21, 2019 20:13:43 GMT -5
Against my better judgement I installed the RMC into my equipment rack again after reading some positive notes on FW 1.4. Took me all of 5 minutes to decide to take the RMC back out and put the stable 8805 back in. The new test tone levels are different. I can live with that for now. What was confusing/frustrating was that after updating the firmware and power cycling (first time) there was a 10db difference between the sub's level and the rest of the speakers. I calibrated all speakers (including subs) to 63db using the 75db test tones then checked them with the 85db test tones and all tested properly at 73db. After exiting the setup menu I tried to watch a movie but the bass was excessive. I tried -6db trim on the sub and it helped, but things weren't quite right. Soo, I power cycled the unit and tried the calibration procedure a second time. Once again the subs levels were too high (even though 10 minutes earlier I had calibrated them sucessfully). I adjusted the sub's levels a second time and as before everything checked out at both 63 & 73db. Thankfully, this time I was able to watch a movie and things seemed normal. On a whim I power cycled the unit a third time to check levels and everything tested the same as the second calibration. Movies sound right . It appears that some of the level registers aren't tracking/re-setting well with the new update. I had similar level setting issues with ver.1.3.6. I even wiped all settings and started from scratch (registers reset?) but couldn't get the subs and mains to decide on one common level (regardless of whether it was 10db too high or low). I had reported to Emotiva (Damon) several times that the mono sub channel would become inactive while exiting out of the internal test tone menu and the speaker presets. I was told this issue was resolved and involved making sure the RMC was setting all channels back to their pre-test tone on/off settings dependent on the speaker preset. I'm guessing while fixing that issue, they have created another one. I too level set all my channels. Like many others I began watching a Blu-Ray and the sub seemed really hot. I switching to Cable TV and experienced another instance of the sub being really hot. But when I switched to AppleTV which changes my speaker preset, the sub went to it's calibrated level. I did a few tests and could consistently get the sub to change level from being +10db hot to normal by changing my speaker presets. So I don't believe the reseting or power cycling is the resolution, I believe it's something in the RMC's speaker preset commands. Emotiva will need to look at this again! I'm reading a lot about test tones and I know that's a concern. I'm more curious about the following and I've only seen a few comments, if any, about them with v.1.4: 1) Are there any dropouts playing back any Dolby Digital or DTS formats? 2) Does the RMC-1 lose audio after you fast forward or rewind? 3) Does it play DSD (DSF files) properly or are there still load pops? I know at one point Emotiva warned against playing DSD files. Hopefully, with the exception of DIRAC - Emotiva now has the product they promised. I realize that DIRAC is a big part of the feature set - but they need to address one thing at a time and I'm more comfortable with the DIRAC implementation once all of the other major issues are fixed. If I were to purchase the RMC-1 now, I just want to be confident I can watch movies or listen to music without any major headaches. No dropouts, however I've only attempted 30 seconds of Justice League UHD before hearing distortion in my middle overhead speakers while listening to the Atmos track. I was told by Damon this was resolved. This video proves otherwise. I've done a complete reset on the RMC twice. I've power cycled the Oppo, RMC, JVC and I've reset the hdmi connections... after all of that the audio still results with this... Again, I changed the connections of the RMC and speakers and the crackle/static followed the RMC output channel, not the speakers or amp channel so it is 100% RMC related. I've also tested the Marantz 8805 and the Marnatz does not have a crackle in in the middle overhead speakers. Only common denominator is the RMC. Oh, I also lost audio twice while skipping around on Cable TV channels. These issues were found in about 15 minutes of total use and I made the decision to quit looking and get the 8805 back in the stack. This crackle, do you get it from different movies or just Justice League? I think I had this a couple of times before with 1.3, but shorter length. While testing atmos tracks. Just as you I noticed that sometimes the bass seemed normal and sometimes almost excessive.. It seems behaving different depending on source. I have tried a bunch of movies which I don’t feel had ”too much” bass. Although playing music with direct mode I have felt an increase in bass level. I have not recalibrated my speaker levels since upgrading to 1.4. Will do this later..
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 20:39:16 GMT -5
try update reboot set levels reboot re-set levels reboot re-set levels do the hokey pokey a rain dance call the witch doctor and take two asprin in the morning . I feel your pain. Even bought different source devices to fix my problems. I nearly gave up, but this thing is finally soo close to being right that I honestly believe there's light at the end of this tunnel.
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