LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 17, 2019 12:50:35 GMT -5
Can someone check a possible bug I've found. I again have done some speaker level checks and the when I match all channels to 75db using the internal test tones and then check the levels with my Spears and Munsil calibration disc, all channels seem to match except the LFE. Using internal test tones I have LFE set to 75db but when using the Oppo and calibration disc, with all other channels matching the 75db within a decimal or less, the LFE channel was 5-8 db softer. The disc outputs a DTS track when using the speaker levels. If anyone has the ability to double check the RMC's internal speaker levels and and report back I'd appreciate it. I've been doing speaker level checks this morning with the internal test tones,(sorry I can't seem to find my S&M cal disc), and have now found I'm getting about a 7-8db lower difference in my left subwoofer level setting with v1.7 as opposed to what I had set with v1.5. I have my subs setup on "DUAL MONO". To channel match left and right subwoofers the variance in their settings is 14.5db (left sub is -8.5 and right sub is 6.0db, and my subs are identical with their amp gain set at the same level). For this reason alone, I'm considering falling back to firmware v1.5 as I only had the DTS-HD locking problem with it and there is an easy workaround for that. I've also had a couple of slow response and/or lock ups with some of the blu-ray movies with lpcm on Geronimo's list.
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 17, 2019 12:59:18 GMT -5
Does anyone's RMC lock up/freeze if you try to change OLED brightness in the PREFERENCES>Front Bright. I want to see if it just my RMC?.... I have Left Display= Bitstream, Right Display= Full Status. You might have to go down to 0% then back up to 100% a couple times. While I haven't had my RMC-1 lock up while cycling through the "DIM"ming feature, it did become sluggish/slower to respond for a minute or so, so I think there may be something to your experience. I did however find another bug while testing your theory. I usually leave the front panel on 0% brightness. Sometimes I like to use the "INFO" button on the remote to check stuff on screen, when I do this the left side OLED screen stays on at 20% after timing out and doesn't go back to 0%. To clear it I have to cycle through with the "DIM" button on the remote to get it back to 0%.
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Post by dlaunde on Nov 17, 2019 13:17:57 GMT -5
I have an XMC-2, but am posting here as the three issues I was checking on today have been discussed on this thread mostly or go hand-in-hand with discussed issues. My hopes are the info I provide may help Emotiva with troubleshooting.
First the LPCM issue. I have all of my Blu-rays ripped to 1:1 MKV/.TS files and playing off a media server. Because of this, only one audio track is on any media file. I only have a handful of rips with LPCM audio (Jay and Silent Bob, Pirates 1-3, The Crazies, The Patriot, The Rock). Upon initially playing them, despite the LPCM 5.1 track being the only audio track in the rip, the XMC was reporting "PCM 2.0" as the incoming sound and channels were missing upon upmixing (noticeably the center). Cycling from "Auto" to another Surround mode fixed it and caused the XMC to now report "PCM 5.1" with correct channel output. OK, so same issue others have had. Here's where I did some more troubleshooting. I noticed that doing the Surround mode cycle on one LPCM movie fixed the issue for all my LPCM movies. So I decided to switch my XMC from "Video Standby" to "Low Power", turned it off, waited, turned it back on and tried an LPCM movie again. It had the same issue, "PCM 2.0" output until cycling Surround mode. So this time I switched back to "Video Standby" mode, powered everything off, then back on and all my LPCM movies played perfectly with "PCM 5.1" being displayed immediately and sound being upmixed correctly. Pausing, FF, RW all worked and "PCM 5.1" stayed locked on. I even cycled through different inputs, turned it off again, and it still worked but only as long as I used "Video Standby" mode. This seems to indicate that, at least on my unit, once you fix the issue by cycling a Surround mode, the XMC remembers this/something gets locked in for correct LPCM 5.1 playback until you do a cold reboot/low standby power off and on.
Second, Netflix Atmos issue (I think this has been reported before). Upon playing an Atmos title on Netflix using a 2nd Gen Fire TV Cube, the XMC reports correct audio input/output of Atmos but no sound comes out at all. Cycling Surround mode doesn't fix it. Only switching inputs and coming back fixes it and the Atmos track plays fine. I do not have this issue at all on Atmos Amazon Prime titles. So, here again, as with the LPCM issue, if I use "Video Standby" mode the issue doesn't happen again. Only if I cold reboot/low standby power off and on does it happen again and need to be remedied with an input cycle.
Third, improper DD 5.1 output for DirecTV. Much like the LPCM issue, the first time watching DirecTV after a cold boot/low standby power off and on results in incorrectly mapped DD 5.1 sound with no center channel or surround speakers. Cycling the Surround mode fixes it and then the fix stays until another cold boot/low standby power off and on. Using "Video Standby" keeps the fix in place/locked in.
TL;DR The only three issues I have had, one being the most recent LPCM 5.1 issue, another being Netflix Atmos and the last being DirecTV DD 5.1, can be fixed with either a Surround mode cycle or input cycle. And those fixes stay working until I do a cold reboot/full standby power off and on. Using "Video Standby" keeps the XMC "locked in", or whatever term you want to use, that these issues don't repeat.
Hope that is helpful.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2019 13:21:45 GMT -5
Can someone check a possible bug I've found. I again have done some speaker level checks and the when I match all channels to 75db using the internal test tones and then check the levels with my Spears and Munsil calibration disc, all channels seem to match except the LFE. Using internal test tones I have LFE set to 75db but when using the Oppo and calibration disc, with all other channels matching the 75db within a decimal or less, the LFE channel was 5-8 db softer. The disc outputs a DTS track when using the speaker levels. If anyone has the ability to double check the RMC's internal speaker levels and and report back I'd appreciate it. I've been doing speaker level checks this morning with the internal test tones,(sorry I can't seem to find my S&M cal disc), and have now found I'm getting about a 7-8db lower difference in my left subwoofer level setting with v1.7 as opposed to what I had set with v1.5. I have my subs setup on "DUAL MONO". To channel match left and right subwoofers the variance in their settings is 14.5db (left sub is -8.5 and right sub is 6.0db). For this reason alone, I'm considering falling back to firmware v1.5 as I only had the DTS-HD locking problem with it and there is an easy workaround for that. I've also had a couple of slow response and/or lock ups with some of the blu-ray movies with lpcm on Geronimo's list. I have the same problem with the different subwoofer levels. I have to turn up the left subwoofer.
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 17, 2019 13:28:14 GMT -5
I have an XMC-2, but am posting here as the three issues I was checking on today have been discussed on this thread mostly or go hand-in-hand with discussed issues. My hopes are the info I provide may help Emotiva with troubleshooting. First the LPCM issue. I have all of my Blu-rays ripped to 1:1 MKV/.TS files and playing off a media server. Because of this, only one audio track is on any media file. I only have a handful of rips with LPCM audio (Jay and Silent Bob, Pirates 1-3, The Crazies, The Patriot, The Rock). Upon initially playing them, despite the LPCM 5.1 track being the only audio track in the rip, the XMC was reporting "PCM 2.0" as the incoming sound and channels were missing upon upmixing (noticeably the center). Cycling from "Auto" to another Surround mode fixed it and caused the XMC to now report "PCM 5.1" with correct channel output. OK, so same issue others have had. Here's where I did some more troubleshooting. I noticed that doing the Surround mode cycle on one LPCM movie fixed the issue for all my LPCM movies. So I decided to switch my XMC from "Video Standby" to "Low Power", turned it off, waited, turned it back on and tried an LPCM movie again. It had the same issue, "PCM 2.0" output until cycling Surround mode. So this time I switched back to "Video Standby" mode, powered everything off, then back on and all my LPCM movies played perfectly with "PCM 5.1" being displayed immediately and sound being upmixed correctly. Pausing, FF, RW all worked and "PCM 5.1" stayed locked on. I even cycled through different inputs, turned it off again, and it still worked but only as long as I used "Video Standby" mode. This seems to indicate that, at least on my unit, once you fix the issue by cycling a Surround mode, the XMC remembers this/something gets locked in for correct LPCM 5.1 playback until you do a cold reboot/low standby power off and on. Second, Netflix Atmos issue (I think this has been reported before). Upon playing an Atmos title on Netflix, the XMC reports correct audio input/output of Atmos but no sound comes out at all. Cycling Surround mode doesn't fix it. Only switching inputs and coming back fixes it and the Atmos track plays fine. I do not have this issue at all on Atmos Amazon Prime titles. So, here again, as with the LPCM issue, if I use "Video Standby" mode the issue doesn't happen again. Only if I cold reboot/low standby power off and on does it happen again and need to be remedied with an input cycle. Third, improper DD 5.1 output for DirecTV. Much like the LPCM issue, the first time watching DirecTV after a cold boot/low standby power off and on results in incorrectly mapped DD 5.1 sound with no center channel or surround speakers. Cycling the Surround mode fixes it and then the fix stays until another cold boot/low standby power off and on. Using "Video Standby" keeps the fix in place/locked in. TL;DR The only three issues I have had, one being the most recent LPCM 5.1 issue, another being Netflix Atmos and the last being DirecTV DD 5.1, can be fixed with either a Surround mode cycle or input cycle. And those fixes stay working until I do a cold reboot/full standby power off and on. Using "Video Standby" keeps the XMC "locked in", or whatever term you want to use, that these issues don't repeat. Hope that is helpful. Nice synopsis, just one question with the NetFlix Atmos issue. What is your source, ATV4K? Roku? FireTV Pendant/Cube?
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 17, 2019 13:28:32 GMT -5
Can someone check a possible bug I've found. I again have done some speaker level checks and the when I match all channels to 75db using the internal test tones and then check the levels with my Spears and Munsil calibration disc, all channels seem to match except the LFE. Using internal test tones I have LFE set to 75db but when using the Oppo and calibration disc, with all other channels matching the 75db within a decimal or less, the LFE channel was 5-8 db softer. The disc outputs a DTS track when using the speaker levels. If anyone has the ability to double check the RMC's internal speaker levels and and report back I'd appreciate it. Test tones on the SandM disc are band limited. LCR and surrounds are pink noise 500HZ – 2KHZ @ -30 dbFS; sound is bright. LFE is pink noise 30 HZ – 80 HZ @ -40 dbFS; sound is more like rumble than pink noise. Test tones in RMC sound darker in fronts and surrounds – more low frequency in the pink noise. LFE tone in RMC has more higher frequency content than the SandM disc. Note that the tone structure is not the same between disc and RMC. Bass level will vary greatly from room to room and the frequency structure of the test tone used. brekkestrand.no/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Schroeder-Frequency-Revisited.pdflinkwitzlab.com/rooms.htmaudiophilereview.com/room-acoustics/what-you-might-not-know----but-really-need-to-know----about-bass.htmlwww.soundandvision.com/content/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-1A room mode calculator: amcoustics.com/tools/amrocI use the medium level tones in the RMC and match the disc tone levels to the RMC tones using the front LCR channels for reference. This is about 79db for me on my meter at MLP. Meter is set to 80db scale, slow response, and C weighting. In my room, when LCR tones are matched between SandM disc and RMC at 79db, LFE tone on disc is 4db hotter than RMC LFE tone level. Surrounds on disc are about 3-4 db hotter than RMC tones. Can’t speak for the heights; no height tones on the SandM disc. I did notice, one time, that when I changed from low level to medium level tones in the RMC, the RMC medium tones were output at a lower medium level than previously. I reset to normal levels by cycling between low and medium again.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 17, 2019 13:30:47 GMT -5
I've been doing speaker level checks this morning with the internal test tones,(sorry I can't seem to find my S&M cal disc), and have now found I'm getting about a 7-8db lower difference in my left subwoofer level setting with v1.7 as opposed to what I had set with v1.5. I have my subs setup on "DUAL MONO". To channel match left and right subwoofers the variance in their settings is 14.5db (left sub is -8.5 and right sub is 6.0db). For this reason alone, I'm considering falling back to firmware v1.5 as I only had the DTS-HD locking problem with it and there is an easy workaround for that. I've also had a couple of slow response and/or lock ups with some of the blu-ray movies with lpcm on Geronimo's list. I have the same problem with the different subwoofer levels. I have to turn up the left subwoofer. Thanks for verifying, was your left subwoofer level around the 7-8db difference as mine?
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Post by deewan on Nov 17, 2019 13:34:48 GMT -5
While I haven't had my RMC-1 lock up while cycling through the "DIM"ming feature, it did become sluggish/slower to respond for a minute or so, so I think there may be something to your experience. I did however find another bug while testing your theory. I usually leave the front panel on 0% brightness. Sometimes I like to use the "INFO" button on the remote to check stuff on screen, when I do this the left side OLED screen stays on at 20% after timing out and doesn't go back to 0%. To clear it I have to cycle through with the "DIM" button on the remote to get it back to 0%. I confirm this happens to me as well. What is interesting is the OLED remains lit if no other IR signals are sent to my devices. But if I use my AppleTV remote and hit any of the remote buttons, the RMC OLED display will go blank (as it should have) in about 5 seconds. It's almost as if the RMC gets stuck and when it "sees" any IR signal even if it isn't for the RMC, it gets unstuck.
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Post by dlaunde on Nov 17, 2019 13:38:07 GMT -5
Nice synopsis, just one question with the NetFlix Atmos issue. What is your source, ATV4K? Roku? FireTV Pendant/Cube? 2nd Gen FireTV Cube. I just added it into my post.
I think I am just lucky in that "Video Standby" works perfectly for my setup in terms of HDMI handshakes (I only use it for the quick startup) and so far the changes I made on all those issues are staying locked-in/fixed/whatever is happening behind the scenes since the unit never truly turns off.
I wonder if a different Standby mode can be programmed that might help remedy issues for others in a future fix. It almost seems like the fixes for my situation are being stored on some sort of RAM cache that is obviously cleared during Low Standby/full power off. A very simple thought as I don't know how the XMC/RMC is setup programming wise but just a simple way of looking at it from my decent computer knowledge.
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Post by deewan on Nov 17, 2019 13:45:49 GMT -5
I use the medium level tones in the RMC and match the disc tone levels to the RMC tones using the front LCR channels for reference. This is about 79db for me on my meter at MLP. Meter is set to 80db scale, slow response, and C weighting. In my room, when LCR tones are matched between SandM disc and RMC at 79db, LFE tone on disc is 4db hotter than RMC LFE tone level. Surrounds on disc are about 3-4 db hotter than RMC tones. Can’t speak for the heights; no height tones on the SandM disc. I did notice, one time, that when I changed from low level to medium level tones in the RMC, the RMC medium tones were output at a lower medium level than previously. I reset to normal levels by cycling between low and medium again. Sounds like your process is the same as mine, only we have vastly different results. My LFE is about 5db softer with FW 1.7. With a previous FW version it was about 10db softer when the disc was compared to internal test tones. All other levels are within 1db between disc and RMC. So would the best method be ignoring the RMC test tones for LFE since they contain higher freq and level match using the lower freq tone son the disc that better represent the actual freq played by that speaker/channel?
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Post by deewan on Nov 17, 2019 14:58:25 GMT -5
While dealing with some hdmi lock on issues and trying to find a method to get my dual monitors to work and display video, I was switching between inputs while listening to some audio from a CD. I randomly switched to the digital AES/EBU input (which I have nothing connected too) hoping to get the hdmi to lock on when I switched back but while I was on the AES/EBU input I heard a strange popping noise. I captured this video. I can recreate this issue anytime I switch to the AES/EBU input. Timestamps.... 0:00 - On the CD player optical input with hdmi input 8 video. No audio since I have the disc paused, but my video from input 1 was not working. 0:09 - I switch inputs using the input arrow button the RMC remote. The RMC begins switching to AES/EBU input. 0:23 - The strange audio sound starts. The sound seems to bounce back and forth between the left and right channels. Sounds like a knocking sound. I think if I speed up the sound coming for the RMC I can recreate this movie monster masterpiece.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2019 15:09:42 GMT -5
About test tone levels. With 1.7 I actually had more consistency with levels between speaker pairs than 1.5 (subs included). Also, the character/timber of the tone(s) seemed more consistent/similar in 1.7. You might try what I had to do with the earlier firmwar versions - clear level setings, set speaker sizes, power off/on, calibrate levels, power off/on ...then re-check to see if they stick. I wanted to stay with 1.7 because the bass is more even/full than 1.5 but there were just too many lockups.
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 17, 2019 15:18:55 GMT -5
I use the medium level tones in the RMC and match the disc tone levels to the RMC tones using the front LCR channels for reference. This is about 79db for me on my meter at MLP. Meter is set to 80db scale, slow response, and C weighting. In my room, when LCR tones are matched between SandM disc and RMC at 79db, LFE tone on disc is 4db hotter than RMC LFE tone level. Surrounds on disc are about 3-4 db hotter than RMC tones. Can’t speak for the heights; no height tones on the SandM disc. I did notice, one time, that when I changed from low level to medium level tones in the RMC, the RMC medium tones were output at a lower medium level than previously. I reset to normal levels by cycling between low and medium again. Sounds like your process is the same as mine, only we have vastly different results. My LFE is about 5db softer with FW 1.7. With a previous FW version it was about 10db softer when the disc was compared to internal test tones. All other levels are within 1db between disc and RMC. So would the best method be ignoring the RMC test tones for LFE since they contain higher freq and level match using the lower freq tone son the disc that better represent the actual freq played by that speaker/channel? I don't know what the best method would be. I have made too many changes to my system recently to draw conclusions. I like the tones on the SandM disc, but I also recognize my bias. I won't quit using the disc, but I want to become more familiar with the RMC test tones too. Perhaps I will learn something by using both. I would like to know the band limits on the test tones in the RMC. That would help me use them more effectively. It is nice to be able to also level all the immersion channels with the built-in generator. I haven't yet tried to level immersion channels with the disc by moving RMC outputs. Seems like work. Maybe next week. I think the best thing would be ATMOS and DTS:X test discs with various test tone structures. Automatic room correction may help some and hurt some. I want verification from known test sources. Immersion sound technology is not a mature format. But, it is a precocious adolescent; gangly and full of angst. It can be wonderful and horrible at the same time.
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Post by bitbutcher on Nov 17, 2019 22:54:08 GMT -5
At this point I may be one of the folks that has to revert back to 1.5. It seems like a lot of the input switching signal locking gremlins from previous firmware versions have returned for me. Latest few are losing sound entirely after launching a game on the Xbox One X, lip sync now seems to be a constant moving target and some time when I switch inputs to the ATV4K I get a solid green screen with no sound.
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Post by Geronimo on Nov 18, 2019 2:14:42 GMT -5
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Post by aswiss on Nov 18, 2019 6:49:31 GMT -5
It happend with my TV Box, just switched channel. Getting worse with 1.7 Looks like Emo forces users to return the devices. Good sound is not enough, when the rest is not working. 12 months and basics are still not working.
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 18, 2019 7:30:20 GMT -5
Please describe any differences with the levels from the test tones on each disc and what they are. Also please let us know any information about the test tones. Do any of the discs have immersive channel tones? Thanks. Just purchased this book and Blu-Ray test disc combo: Welcome to Music and Audio: A User Guide To Better Sound: www.musicandaudioguide.com/Is there a thread on Room setup and testing here? If not, I would be glad to start one and keep these posts separate.
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Post by Geronimo on Nov 18, 2019 8:35:22 GMT -5
Hmmmmmmm. So Dirac is supposedly coming in about a month or two. I would think that proper test tone levels would be a very important aspect of the process.
I believe they will be sorted out by the time DIRAC is released. Otherwise, it would be another mess.
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Post by deewan on Nov 18, 2019 8:42:06 GMT -5
Happy Monday to everyone. Here is the current list of bugs/issues we as a community have found. These are all listed on the " RMC-1 - Known issues, firmware updates and equipment lists" thread. Have I missed anything that we want Emotiva to know about? Firmware 1.7 – Release date 11/13/2019Issues with this firmware: - RMC becomes unresponsive when switching from certain soundtrack formats. One example is when the RMC switches from DD 5.1 to PCM 5.1 signal. This is a repeatable bug when using the BluRay disc of Mad Max: Fury Road and watching the trailer section.
- Losing channel output when the RMC is fed a lossy PCM signal. Most notable the center channel will go silent. This issue found while watching BluRay of Doom Annihilation.
- With dual displays and a source devices set to "auto" or "raw" to output the native source resolution, if both display devices are powered on the RMC does not display an imagine on either display device. Found while using an Oppo 203 and setting the output resolution to "Raw". If only the secondary monitor 1080p monitor is turned on, video is seen. If only the JVC projector which is native 1080p but can accept a 4K signal is turned on, the video is seen. If both display devices are powered on both display a blue screen.
- The RMC internal test tones seem to be 5-10db softer when compared to using external test tones. This seems to impact subwoofers using both the center sub/LFE output as well as dual right and left subwoofers.
- When setting the OLED display level to 0%, the OLED remains lit after pushes the "Info" button on the remote instead of returning to 0% brightness (nothing displayed)
- The AES/EBU input on the RMC outputs a random 'knocking' sound with nothing connected to it.Sound seems to bounce back and forth from the left and right channels
- Multiple users continue to experience hdmi lock on issues. The workaround continues to be flipping back and forth between inputs.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Nov 18, 2019 8:42:31 GMT -5
Hmmmmmmm. So Dirac is supposedly coming in about a month or two. I would think that proper test tone levels would be a very important aspect of the process. I believe they will be sorted out by the time DIRAC is released. Otherwise, it would be another mess. While I agree the test tones need to get sorted out, Dirac uses it's own tones.
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