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Post by lrobertson on Aug 27, 2019 12:21:56 GMT -5
I’d still like to be able to apply neural to bed channels on Atmos but I guess that isn’t the way this will pan out. Maybe now it’s in DTS’s hands to be allowed to have a Atmos specific upmixer..?
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richb
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Post by richb on Aug 27, 2019 12:23:23 GMT -5
There's really nothing to rethink...
We are a licensee of the Dolby Atmos technology...
And, as per Dolby's license requirements, our users may not be permitted to use any commercially available upmixer with Dolby Atmos content. So, even if the RMC-1 included Auro3D, Dolby's licensing restrictions forbid us, or any other licensee of the Dolby Atmos technology, from allowing you to use it with Atmos content. (We would be allowed to develop our own proprietary upmixer - but we are not allowed to enable upmixing Atmos content with any other commercial upmixer - which includes the Auro3D and DTS-X upmixers.)
Dolby has withdrawn this restriction for upmixing. It no longer exists. I don't think anyone is talking about upmixing atmos content but rather dolby 5.1/7.1 content. If the article is correct there are no longer upmixing restriction on 5.1, 7.1, or Atmos content. - Rich
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 27, 2019 12:32:38 GMT -5
Hi Lonnie, it appears it might be a good day to give your friends at Dolby a call to get some official word on this situation. If the restrictions are in fact lifted, what does this mean for your current set up in the 3 new processors? Would it be a matter of changing firmware again, or is there more to it than that? Inquiring minds would love to know. Thanks --- Bonzo
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Post by lrobertson on Aug 27, 2019 12:38:02 GMT -5
Lonnie while you’re at it maybe call DTS and tell them when we get our pro edition have them include Atmos Neural X.
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Post by MonsieurAl on Aug 27, 2019 12:44:57 GMT -5
if possible for HTP-1 then also for RMC-1 :DTS: X only supports 7.1.4, however, we allow our users to turn to a feature that extends the 7.1.4 signal to 9.1.6. will it be possible on the RMC-1?
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 27, 2019 12:54:38 GMT -5
With regard to Dolby's reversal the question is, will Emo spend the time/money to undo the the restrictions already encoded in their firmware? Personally, neither the DSU nor DTS:X upmixers do as good a job of upmixing as Harman's Logic 7 did with my old Lexicon MC12. Regardless, it would be nice to have options/choice. I would guess if enough people ask for it they will do it. I don't know if it's really a big deal as the Dolby Surround upmixer works pretty well, but all things being equal it would be nice ot have the option of DTS:X Netural upmixer as well. I have not been immersed enough in the details to know, but...doesn't this relate to how Emotiva can utilize the full 28-channel potential of the RMC-1? If so, I'd say they are planning on it. I seem to recall a lot of "there's something coming that we can't really talk about..." comments from Emotiva related to using the 28 channels. Mark
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 27, 2019 13:10:20 GMT -5
I stand updated..... it was in my in-box.....
(So we're back to "considering how much work would be involved"..... )
There's really nothing to rethink...
We are a licensee of the Dolby Atmos technology...
And, as per Dolby's license requirements, our users may not be permitted to use any commercially available upmixer with Dolby Atmos content. So, even if the RMC-1 included Auro3D, Dolby's licensing restrictions forbid us, or any other licensee of the Dolby Atmos technology, from allowing you to use it with Atmos content. (We would be allowed to develop our own proprietary upmixer - but we are not allowed to enable upmixing Atmos content with any other commercial upmixer - which includes the Auro3D and DTS-X upmixers.)
Dobly has remove the restriction on commercial upmixers: www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/dolby-widthdraws-from-restricting-non-native-upmixing-a-win-for-consumersContinued enforcement is unnecessary and (IMO) unwise. - Rich
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Post by cwt on Aug 27, 2019 13:11:42 GMT -5
With regard to Dolby's reversal the question is, will Emo spend the time/money to undo the the restrictions already encoded in their firmware? Personally, neither the DSU nor DTS:X upmixers do as good a job of upmixing as Harman's Logic 7 did with my old Lexicon MC12. Regardless, it would be nice to have options/choice. Yes ; Logic 7 was/is a very nice option and if it doesn't suit Emo I would certainly welcome paying extra for an oem license for Lexicons Quantum Logic Immersion in lieu of the dropped Emo dsp mode The improved algorithm covers ceiling speakers as well ; lexiconpro.com/enyoutu.be/7cOvgeYs4yI
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 27, 2019 13:13:13 GMT -5
I would guess if enough people ask for it they will do it. I don't know if it's really a big deal as the Dolby Surround upmixer works pretty well, but all things being equal it would be nice ot have the option of DTS:X Netural upmixer as well. I have not been immersed enough in the details to know, but...doesn't this relate to how Emotiva can utilize the full 28-channel potential of the RMC-1? If so, I'd say they are planning on it. I seem to recall a lot of "there's something coming that we can't really talk about..." comments from Emotiva related to using the 28 channels. Mark Wasn’t the ‘something they couldn’t talk about’ the actual expansion to 28 channels? I seem to remember that was before the 4 channel expansion modules were announced. I hope they’re able to remove the upmixer restrictions and let people choose which one they like best, and take advantage of all their channels.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 27, 2019 13:14:11 GMT -5
I stand updated and, as far as I know, the article is correct. However, how it applies to things like "pinned content" remains to be seen.
There's really nothing to rethink...
We are a licensee of the Dolby Atmos technology...
And, as per Dolby's license requirements, our users may not be permitted to use any commercially available upmixer with Dolby Atmos content. So, even if the RMC-1 included Auro3D, Dolby's licensing restrictions forbid us, or any other licensee of the Dolby Atmos technology, from allowing you to use it with Atmos content. (We would be allowed to develop our own proprietary upmixer - but we are not allowed to enable upmixing Atmos content with any other commercial upmixer - which includes the Auro3D and DTS-X upmixers.)
The article suggests those limitations have been lifted. Is the article misleading? It also said Emotiva was the only company who has actually followed that rule which didn’t sound right. Maybe what I’m missing is Dolby still doesn’t allow upmixing of its Atmos even if now it will allow neural upmixing if it’s non Atmos?
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 27, 2019 13:38:15 GMT -5
I have not been immersed enough in the details to know, but...doesn't this relate to how Emotiva can utilize the full 28-channel potential of the RMC-1? If so, I'd say they are planning on it. I seem to recall a lot of "there's something coming that we can't really talk about..." comments from Emotiva related to using the 28 channels. Mark Wasn’t the ‘something they couldn’t talk about’ the actual expansion to 28 channels? I seem to remember that was before the 4 channel expansion modules were announced. I hope they’re able to remove the upmixer restrictions and let people choose which one they like best, and take advantage of all their channels. It may have been, but I was thinking those comments came well after we knew about the possible expansion to 28. I was thinking they came up when people started talking about the 7.1.4 limits on some disks and then amped up as people started talking upmixer limits. Emotiva then started saying effectively "Well yes...but...there's something coming..." I might be wrong. Mark
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Aug 27, 2019 14:21:43 GMT -5
Just to clear the air here. Yes, Dolby has lifted the restrictions for post processing Dolby encoded material. So what does this actually mean? Well, we were always able to write our own code for up and down mixing, that was never restricted. What was restricted was applying a 3rd party up or down mixer to Dolby encoded material. For example, applying DTS over a Dolby encoded stream. So now that restriction is lifted but hold on, it's not really that simple. While the legal restrictions may be lifted, what is embedded within the firmware is tightly woven into the architecture of the system. So it's not just a matter of commenting out a few lines of code, it goes way deeper.
The bottom line here is simply this, we will dig into it but it's a long process and needs to be tested carefully to make sure we don't break things as we go.
I hope this helps to clear things up and not make them more confusing.
Lonnie
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Post by skiman1 on Aug 27, 2019 14:38:49 GMT -5
I seem to remember a caution being issued some time ago about streaming via DCD, as from a SACD. Is it safe to do so, now with update V1.5? Anybody?
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Aug 27, 2019 14:46:54 GMT -5
I seem to remember a caution being issued some time ago about streaming via DCD, as from a SACD. Is it safe to do so, now with update V1.5? Anybody? The muting on DSD was resolved sometime back. Lonnie
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 27, 2019 16:02:17 GMT -5
Just to clear the air here. Yes, Dolby has lifted the restrictions for post processing Dolby encoded material. So what does this actually mean? Well, we were always able to write our own code for up and down mixing, that was never restricted. What was restricted was applying a 3rd party up or down mixer to Dolby encoded material. For example, applying DTS over a Dolby encoded stream. So now that restriction is lifted but hold on, it's not really that simple. While the legal restrictions may be lifted, what is embedded within the firmware is tightly woven into the architecture of the system. So it's not just a matter of commenting out a few lines of code, it goes way deeper. The bottom line here is simply this, we will dig into it but it's a long process and needs to be tested carefully to make sure we don't break things as we go. I hope this helps to clear things up and not make them more confusing. Lonnie So it IS firmware, not hardware, but it's still a major change, not just a flip of a switch. I'd be a little pissed at Dolby if I were you guys. Probably a lot more than a little. Other units like the Marantz 8805 got in before the lock out. You came after, followed Dolby's rules, and now they hosed you. Of course you can't say it out loud, but Dolby can't do anything to me, so I can. What a bunch of arrogant d*cks. DTS rules! Screw Dolby.
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Post by tbaucom on Aug 27, 2019 16:23:18 GMT -5
Just to clear the air here. Yes, Dolby has lifted the restrictions for post processing Dolby encoded material. So what does this actually mean? Well, we were always able to write our own code for up and down mixing, that was never restricted. What was restricted was applying a 3rd party up or down mixer to Dolby encoded material. For example, applying DTS over a Dolby encoded stream. So now that restriction is lifted but hold on, it's not really that simple. While the legal restrictions may be lifted, what is embedded within the firmware is tightly woven into the architecture of the system. So it's not just a matter of commenting out a few lines of code, it goes way deeper. The bottom line here is simply this, we will dig into it but it's a long process and needs to be tested carefully to make sure we don't break things as we go. I hope this helps to clear things up and not make them more confusing. Lonnie Lonnie. if I may ask, what was the reasoning on locking out the Dolby surround upmixer on DTS encoded 5.1/7.1 content? That was never required by DTS and I don't think Dolby restricted the use of their upmixer on other codecs.
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richb
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Post by richb on Aug 27, 2019 16:25:13 GMT -5
Just to clear the air here. Yes, Dolby has lifted the restrictions for post processing Dolby encoded material. So what does this actually mean? Well, we were always able to write our own code for up and down mixing, that was never restricted. What was restricted was applying a 3rd party up or down mixer to Dolby encoded material. For example, applying DTS over a Dolby encoded stream. So now that restriction is lifted but hold on, it's not really that simple. While the legal restrictions may be lifted, what is embedded within the firmware is tightly woven into the architecture of the system. So it's not just a matter of commenting out a few lines of code, it goes way deeper. The bottom line here is simply this, we will dig into it but it's a long process and needs to be tested carefully to make sure we don't break things as we go. I hope this helps to clear things up and not make them more confusing. Lonnie Lonnie. if I may ask, what was the reasoning on locking ot the Dolby surround upmixer on DTS encoded 5.1/7.1 content? That was never required by DTS and I don't think Dolby restricted the use of their upmixer on other codecs. That question would have to answered by Dolby. However, you don't have to be genius to figure it out: to further crowd out DTS and Auro3D. - Rich
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Aug 27, 2019 16:26:03 GMT -5
Just to clear the air here. Yes, Dolby has lifted the restrictions for post processing Dolby encoded material. So what does this actually mean? Well, we were always able to write our own code for up and down mixing, that was never restricted. What was restricted was applying a 3rd party up or down mixer to Dolby encoded material. For example, applying DTS over a Dolby encoded stream. So now that restriction is lifted but hold on, it's not really that simple. While the legal restrictions may be lifted, what is embedded within the firmware is tightly woven into the architecture of the system. So it's not just a matter of commenting out a few lines of code, it goes way deeper. The bottom line here is simply this, we will dig into it but it's a long process and needs to be tested carefully to make sure we don't break things as we go. I hope this helps to clear things up and not make them more confusing. Lonnie So it IS firmware, not hardware, but it's still a major change, not just a flip of a switch. I'd be a little pissed at Dolby if I were you guys. Probably a lot more than a little. Other units like the Marantz 8805 got in before the lock out. You came after, followed Dolby's rules, and now they hosed you. Of course you can't say it out loud, but Dolby can't do anything to me, so I can. What a bunch of arrogant d*cks. DTS rules! Screw Dolby. The amount of specs that change on a pretty regular basis is mind boggling. HDMI, HDCP, USB, Dolby etc. It used to drive me crazy but now I'm like "whatever, add it to the list". Lonnie
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richb
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Post by richb on Aug 27, 2019 16:27:22 GMT -5
Just to clear the air here. Yes, Dolby has lifted the restrictions for post processing Dolby encoded material. So what does this actually mean? Well, we were always able to write our own code for up and down mixing, that was never restricted. What was restricted was applying a 3rd party up or down mixer to Dolby encoded material. For example, applying DTS over a Dolby encoded stream. So now that restriction is lifted but hold on, it's not really that simple. While the legal restrictions may be lifted, what is embedded within the firmware is tightly woven into the architecture of the system. So it's not just a matter of commenting out a few lines of code, it goes way deeper. The bottom line here is simply this, we will dig into it but it's a long process and needs to be tested carefully to make sure we don't break things as we go. I hope this helps to clear things up and not make them more confusing. I fear you have no choice since apparently, Emotiva may be the only company enforcing the former restriction. It will take time to un-unfudge it. - Rich
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Aug 27, 2019 16:31:34 GMT -5
Well I've pulled all my components out of the cabinet, dusted, cleaned and have now put everything back in their new and or old spots. Now all I have to do is re-plug/re-wire everything and make all the wiring all nice and tidy this time around. Taking a break now to do a bit more preparation for a possible appearance of Tropical Storm Dorian that may or may not affect my neck of the woods this coming Sunday/Monday. This time I'm prepared generator/electricity-wise, just gotta go fill up three 5gal gas cans with non-ethanol unleaded gas for the generator. Hopefully I can get the RMC-1 and the rest of the home theater setup going tonight, if not I should have it up and running tomorrow afternoon after sleeping in.
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