Rmc-1 initial impressions

[mikoz]

I just swapped out the legendary denon Avp pre-pro for the rmc-1

I have a few initial thoughts after an hour of playing with it:
1. Build quality.  It’s just average, less than you get with something like marantz or denon.  Volume knob in particular feels flimsy and cheap and definitely lacking that satisfying feel you get from other units in this price point.    Unit is very light... seems to speak to power supply quality.   Outer casing is thin and not very rigid.  
2. Remote.  Hands down the worst remote I’ve  ever used.  No backlight, illogical  keyboard layout (volume is in odd place, etc), keys are all sized the same (the rest of the world has realized that volume keys need to be bigger and should be at the bottom of the remote), no tactile differences in keys.  Feels terrible in your hands...it’s not contoured to fit a hand.   It’s heavy, and should survive a fall...thats about the only desirable thing about it.  Odd batteries used....why... why not use AA or AAA?  
3. Popping and clicking all the time.  I played a dsd from an Oppo 203 and it produced such a series of pops and clicks that it caused the amp to turn off.   Everything you do or modify seems to cause pops and clicks. 
4. Source changing takes forever....over 25 seconds sometimes.  I’ve also had to do multiple reboots sometimes to wake it up before it will properly sync to the hdmi source.   I am using the latest beta firmware. 
5. On screen display looks like something from the 90s.  It’s actually worse than the 2nd zone display of the denon from 2008.  It’s also very slow to respond to key presses.  You can tell it’s getting the remote code and not responding because the front of the unit shows the remote code being received yet nothing happens.  Sometimes takes 4 or more remote clicks to get it to respond.   Osd cannot be moved to a different location on screen. Can’t seem to get volume to display on screen.  I’ve never seen something so odd when selecting or deselecting checkboxes, it’s the most unintuitive thing I’ve seen on a receiver.  
6.  Firmware upgrades over usb only?  Why not over the internet directly?    Why are the firmware updates placed on a post in the forum on some random tiny URL and not available on the company website?  Seeems very...unofficial.  
7.   After all this time, still no Dirac at launch.

[boomzilla]

Thanks, mikoz - answers the questions that I had but for one - What does it sound like in stereo mode (Not Stereo-Direct - just "normal" stereo)?

Thanks - Boomzilla

[mick]

I really don't understand why they are still selling these with all the bugs, lucky they don,t sell cars, surly a beta tester must get a discount.

[brubacca]

They have a trial period for a reason. Send it back as I assume you are still under trial.

[bootman]

Jan 8, 2019 1:38:22 GMT -5 mikoz said:

I just swapped out the legendary denon Avp pre-pro for the rmc-1

I have a few initial thoughts after an hour of playing with it:
1. Build quality.  It’s just average, less than you get with something like marantz or denon.  Volume knob in particular feels flimsy and cheap and definitely lacking that satisfying feel you get from other units in this price point.    Unit is very light... seems to speak to power supply quality.   Outer casing is thin and not very rigid.  
2. Remote.  Hands down the worst remote I’ve  ever used.  No backlight, illogical  keyboard layout (volume is in odd place, etc), keys are all sized the same (the rest of the world has realized that volume keys need to be bigger and should be at the bottom of the remote), no tactile differences in keys.  Feels terrible in your hands...it’s not contoured to fit a hand.   It’s heavy, and should survive a fall...thats about the only desirable thing about it.  Odd batteries used....why... why not use AA or AAA?  
3. Popping and clicking all the time.  I played a dsd from an Oppo 203 and it produced such a series of pops and clicks that it caused the amp to turn off.   Everything you do or modify seems to cause pops and clicks. 
4. Source changing takes forever....over 25 seconds sometimes.  I’ve also had to do multiple reboots sometimes to wake it up before it will properly sync to the hdmi source.   I am using the latest beta firmware. 
5. On screen display looks like something from the 90s.  It’s actually worse than the 2nd zone display of the denon from 2008.  It’s also very slow to respond to key presses.  You can tell it’s getting the remote code and not responding because the front of the unit shows the remote code being received yet nothing happens.  Sometimes takes 4 or more remote clicks to get it to respond.   Osd cannot be moved to a different location on screen. Can’t seem to get volume to display on screen.  I’ve never seen something so odd when selecting or deselecting checkboxes, it’s the most unintuitive thing I’ve seen on a receiver.  
6.  Firmware upgrades over usb only?  Why not over the internet directly?    Why are the firmware updates placed on a post in the forum on some random tiny URL and not available on the company website?  Seeems very...unofficial.  
7.   After all this time, still no Dirac at launch.

Have you sent it back yet?
Just curious what model Denon and Marantz you did a hands on comparison to with regards to build quality?

[405x5]

Jan 8, 2019 1:38:22 GMT -5 mikoz said:

I just swapped out the legendary denon Avp pre-pro for the rmc-1

I have a few initial thoughts after an hour of playing with it:
1. Build quality.  It’s just average, less than you get with something like marantz or denon.  Volume knob in particular feels flimsy and cheap and definitely lacking that satisfying feel you get from other units in this price point.    Unit is very light... seems to speak to power supply quality.   Outer casing is thin and not very rigid.  
2. Remote.  Hands down the worst remote I’ve  ever used.  No backlight, illogical  keyboard layout (volume is in odd place, etc), keys are all sized the same (the rest of the world has realized that volume keys need to be bigger and should be at the bottom of the remote), no tactile differences in keys.  Feels terrible in your hands...it’s not contoured to fit a hand.   It’s heavy, and should survive a fall...thats about the only desirable thing about it.  Odd batteries used....why... why not use AA or AAA?  
3. Popping and clicking all the time.  I played a dsd from an Oppo 203 and it produced such a series of pops and clicks that it caused the amp to turn off.   Everything you do or modify seems to cause pops and clicks. 
4. Source changing takes forever....over 25 seconds sometimes.  I’ve also had to do multiple reboots sometimes to wake it up before it will properly sync to the hdmi source.   I am using the latest beta firmware. 
5. On screen display looks like something from the 90s.  It’s actually worse than the 2nd zone display of the denon from 2008.  It’s also very slow to respond to key presses.  You can tell it’s getting the remote code and not responding because the front of the unit shows the remote code being received yet nothing happens.  Sometimes takes 4 or more remote clicks to get it to respond.   Osd cannot be moved to a different location on screen. Can’t seem to get volume to display on screen.  I’ve never seen something so odd when selecting or deselecting checkboxes, it’s the most unintuitive thing I’ve seen on a receiver.  
6.  Firmware upgrades over usb only?  Why not over the internet directly?    Why are the firmware updates placed on a post in the forum on some random tiny URL and not available on the company website?  Seeems very...unofficial.  
7.   After all this time, still no Dirac at launch.

Is there anything about it you like?


Bill

[musicfan]

Jan 8, 2019 7:09:31 GMT -5 brubacca said:

They have a trial period for a reason. Send it back as I assume you are still under trial.

true but these are manufacturing defects....emotiva should provide free return shipping

[bootman]

Jan 8, 2019 9:43:52 GMT -5 musicfan said:

Jan 8, 2019 7:09:31 GMT -5 brubacca said:

They have a trial period for a reason. Send it back as I assume you are still under trial.

true but these are manufacturing defects....emotiva should provide free return shipping

They should but just like other OEMs, some do and most don't.
If that is important to you, then limit your choices to those that do.

[musicfan]

Jan 8, 2019 10:39:16 GMT -5 bootman said:

Jan 8, 2019 9:43:52 GMT -5 musicfan said:

true but these are manufacturing defects....emotiva should provide free return shipping

They should but just like other OEMs, some do and most don't.
If that is important to you, then limit your choices to those that do.

i would say the opposite, most do some dont (those that dont are not reputable)

[bootman]

Jan 8, 2019 10:41:07 GMT -5 musicfan said:

Jan 8, 2019 10:39:16 GMT -5 bootman said:

They should but just like other OEMs, some do and most don't.
If that is important to you, then limit your choices to those that do.

i would say the opposite, most do some dont (those that dont are not reputable)

I picked Marantz at random (well not so random since their top unit is a favorite comparison model) and looked at their warranty policy.
At least for US customers, you are responsible for return shipping and they will pay to ship it back to you.
I think this is also how Emotiva works their policy.

So do we add marantz to your"not reputable" list?

ATI Amplifiers is 90 day (extended if bought at a authorized dealer) and also require prepaid shipping.
Another one to the "not reputable" list.

Krell, Denon, Sony,.. all "non reputable"

I can go on....

[mikoz]

My system previously was the Denon AVP-A1HDCI pre-pro (not sold anymore) which was sold when Denon went back to offering separates. It's sort of in a league of its own in terms of build quality and heft, so I am adjusting my expectations accordingly. But the difference to the RMC-1 is striking, it just feels like a toy compared to something like the Denon. I'm not a "weight snob" or someone obsessed with build quality, but it was somewhat disappointing. My 10 year old spun the volume knob and asked me if it was broken because it didn't feel right... that should tell you something.

The remote on the RMC-1 is just horrible... may be somewhat of a deal-breaker for me. It's like they gave the task of designing it to someone who has never even seen a remote on these types of pre-pros. I struggled to consistently change the volume in a dark room. I am really surprised they made something like that was released.

The source switching and pops/clicks are really not excusable. Never has my amp shut down previously, but the moment I played a DSD file over the Oppo with the RMC-1 I heard a noise I've never heard before and the amp actually shut down. This is not excusable in my opinion. These pops and clicks and dropouts are not indicative of a releasable product in my opinion.

FW being distributed via forum posts and tiny URLs feels so... hacked-up and unofficial.

As to the sound.... I really didn't get that far yet. I realize this is obviously a huge part of it, I'm jut not there yet. I only listened a bit, and I wasn't disappointed, but I'll need to reserve judgement on that until later. I need more time to play with things and give it a chance before making a decision. The primary reason I bought this was the Dirac audio (not yet available), 4k support and 9+ channels... there's not much else on the market that can do this.

[bootman]

Jan 8, 2019 11:14:02 GMT -5 mikoz said:

My system previously was the Denon AVP-A1HDCI pre-pro (not sold anymore) which was sold when Denon went back to offering separates. It's sort of in a league of its own in terms of build quality and heft, so I am adjusting my expectations accordingly. But the difference to the RMC-1 is striking, it just feels like a toy compared to something like the Denon. I'm not a "weight snob" or someone obsessed with build quality, but it was somewhat disappointing. My 10 year old spun the volume knob and asked me if it was broken because it didn't feel right... that should tell you something.

The remote on the RMC-1 is just horrible... may be somewhat of a deal-breaker for me. It's like they gave the task of designing it to someone who has never even seen a remote on these types of pre-pros. I struggled to consistently change the volume in a dark room. I am really surprised they made something like that was released.

The source switching and pops/clicks are really not excusable. Never has my amp shut down previously, but the moment I played a DSD file over the Oppo with the RMC-1 I heard a noise I've never heard before and the amp actually shut down. This is not excusable in my opinion. These pops and clicks and dropouts are not indicative of a releasable product in my opinion.

FW being distributed via forum posts and tiny URLs feels so... hacked-up and unofficial.

As to the sound.... I really didn't get that far yet. I realize this is obviously a huge part of it, I'm jut not there yet. I only listened a bit, and I wasn't disappointed, but I'll need to reserve judgement on that until later. I need more time to play with things and give it a chance before making a decision. The primary reason I bought this was the Dirac audio (not yet available), 4k support and 9+ channels... there's not much else on the market that can do this.

I would return it.

Maybe a Marantz AV8805 might fit your needs?

[adaboy]

Jan 8, 2019 10:55:31 GMT -5 bootman said:

Jan 8, 2019 10:41:07 GMT -5 musicfan said:

i would say the opposite, most do some dont (those that dont are not reputable)

I picked Marantz at random (well not so random since their top unit is a favorite comparison model) and looked at their warranty policy.
At least for US customers, you are responsible for return shipping and they will pay to ship it back to you.
I think this is also how Emotiva works their policy.

So do we add marantz to your"not reputable" list?

ATI Amplifiers is 90 day (extended if bought at a authorized dealer) and also require prepaid shipping.
Another one to the "not reputable" list.

Krell, Denon, Sony,.. all "non reputable"

I can go on....

If you purchased the Marantz at say Best buy or something similar you could return it without shipping even if it was ordered on line. I understand what you meant but there's still a difference in the comparison. Outlaw would be a better comparison.

[bootman]

Jan 8, 2019 11:30:14 GMT -5 adaboy said:

Jan 8, 2019 10:55:31 GMT -5 bootman said:

I picked Marantz at random (well not so random since their top unit is a favorite comparison model) and looked at their warranty policy.
At least for US customers, you are responsible for return shipping and they will pay to ship it back to you.
I think this is also how Emotiva works their policy.

So do we add marantz to your"not reputable" list?

ATI Amplifiers is 90 day (extended if bought at a authorized dealer) and also require prepaid shipping.
Another one to the "not reputable" list.

Krell, Denon, Sony,.. all "non reputable"

I can go on....

If you purchased the Marantz at say Best buy or something similar you could return it without shipping even if it was ordered on line. I understand what you meant but there's still a difference in the comparison. Outlaw would be a better comparison.

www.outlawaudio.com/support/faq_warranty.html

Customer will pay shipping charges incurred in getting your Product to Outlaw. We will pay the return shipping charges if the repairs are covered by the warranty.

Another company added to the "non reputable" list.

[adaboy]

Jan 8, 2019 11:34:27 GMT -5 bootman said:

Jan 8, 2019 11:30:14 GMT -5 adaboy said:

If you purchased the Marantz at say Best buy or something similar you could return it without shipping even if it was ordered on line. I understand what you meant but there's still a difference in the comparison. Outlaw would be a better comparison.

www.outlawaudio.com/support/faq_warranty.html

Customer will pay shipping charges incurred in getting your Product to Outlaw. We will pay the return shipping charges if the repairs are covered by the warranty.

Another company added to the "non reputable" list.

The ninja emoji made my day!😂😂

[thrillcat]

All these people complaining about the remote have obviously not spent much time with true high-end audiophile equipment.

The remote for my Jolida tube amp is half the size and weighs just as much as the XMC-1 and RMC-1 remotes, and it only has 4 (identically-sized) buttons.

I think I'll create a cheap, plastic remote from the standard remotes that Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Marantz, Denon, et al buy their hardware from, code it for the XMC units, mark it up 1000% and have a nice little side business.

[bootman]

Jan 8, 2019 11:38:33 GMT -5 thrillcat said:

All these people complaining about the remote have obviously not spent much time with true high-end audiophile equipment.

The remote for my Jolida tube amp is half the size and weighs just as much as the XMC-1 and RMC-1 remotes, and it only has 4 buttons.

...and can be used as a defense weapon in case someone is trying to steal it.
One shot to the head and its over.

My harmony remote will just bounce off. lol

[thrillcat]

Jan 8, 2019 11:41:14 GMT -5 bootman said:

Jan 8, 2019 11:38:33 GMT -5 thrillcat said:

All these people complaining about the remote have obviously not spent much time with true high-end audiophile equipment.

The remote for my Jolida tube amp is half the size and weighs just as much as the XMC-1 and RMC-1 remotes, and it only has 4 buttons.

...and can be used as a defense weapon in case someone is trying to steal it.
One shot to the head and its over.

My harmony remote will just bounce off. lol

Right? Even my universal remote is a NEEO, which is carved aluminum like a MacBook Pro. Nice, solid, a little bit of weight. The good stuff.

[bootman]

Jan 8, 2019 11:42:51 GMT -5 thrillcat said:

Jan 8, 2019 11:41:14 GMT -5 bootman said:

...and can be used as a defense weapon in case someone is trying to steal it.
One shot to the head and its over.

My harmony remote will just bounce off. lol

Right? Even my universal remote is a NEEO, which is carved aluminum like a MacBook Pro. Nice, solid, a little bit of weight. The good stuff.

Lets start a remote thread.
I took a look at the NEEO and now I want one.

[musicfan]

Jan 8, 2019 10:55:31 GMT -5 bootman said:

Jan 8, 2019 10:41:07 GMT -5 musicfan said:

i would say the opposite, most do some dont (those that dont are not reputable)

I picked Marantz at random (well not so random since their top unit is a favorite comparison model) and looked at their warranty policy.
At least for US customers, you are responsible for return shipping and they will pay to ship it back to you.
I think this is also how Emotiva works their policy.

So do we add marantz to your"not reputable" list?

ATI Amplifiers is 90 day (extended if bought at a authorized dealer) and also require prepaid shipping.
Another one to the "not reputable" list.

Krell, Denon, Sony,.. all "non reputable"

I can go on....

Those brands are NEVER bought directly from the manufacturer so yes the dealer would not charge you return shipping if the unit didn’t work as advertised.

So your argument doesn’t hold water

Also warranty repair and what emo is shipping are two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT things. Again don’t change what’s going in to try to support your narrative. Doesn’t work that way

This thing didn’t “break” it never worked properly in the first place!!!