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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 9, 2019 15:55:53 GMT -5
I do struggle for the need for 8k devices. On a 75" TV there is basically no way to see a difference between 4k and 8k. Of course it is being done for marketing purposes and adding the extra pixels is probably fairly cheap. Yeah, but not the processing power and bandwidth needed to handle FOUR times the number of those pixels 😁 But what about the bandwidth, how much compression? We don't even have decent 4K, HDR, DV and limited Atmos/DTS-X because of bandwidth limitations. And how does it fit on a disc? Cheers Gary
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Post by geeqner on Jan 9, 2019 16:53:19 GMT -5
I think that it is VERY COOL to see what is currently and will soon-be POSSIBLE.
However - NOT being an old "fuddy-duddy", but a Realist / Pragmatist: (And fully agree with what "Musichead" stated previously) Just because it exists and is / may be possible and "COOL" DOES NOT necessarily mean that it's "right for ME" so, "Is it still FUN?" = resounding "YES"
4K/8K/Atmos/THX Certification are all well and good, but in order to reap any REAL benefit from them - you pretty much NEED a Dedicated Home Theater Room / Space with the proper light control and acoustical properties. (plus places to put all of the equipment out of the way and ways to hide the wires for all of those speakers)
When it comes to A/V Technology set-up in your average Living Room / Family Room - I'll stand by my argument that: -A Well-Executed 5.1 System (or less) will BLOW-AWAY a half-arsed attempt at Atmos 7, 8, 9-dot-whatever crammed into that same space -2K would be fine for most Screens under the 50-60-inch class in your average room at average viewing distances (and again a Truly EXCELLENT 2K Monitor [if they were available] would probably be better than an "average" 4K Monitor) (if you cannot PROPERLY place / separate the speakers - there really is no reason to have them and how many wives will allow all those wires to be out in the open?)
The REAL "trick" is being able to separate the impractical hype from the stuff that will actually MAKE YOUR System better. Some of us enjoy kicking-around ideas about what will / will not work in our spaces nearly as much as actually buying the stuff and playing with it. (I STILL drool over some of the latest and best OLED Monitors that I see at my local Magnolia, but also realize that I have no place to put one of those sucka's...)
That's why our next home will have a DEDICATED "Ron Space" where I can put my speakers 3-feet out from the walls if I want to.
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Post by MusicHead on Jan 9, 2019 17:48:54 GMT -5
Yeah, but not the processing power and bandwidth needed to handle FOUR times the number of those pixels 😁 But what about the bandwidth, how much compression? We don't even have decent 4K, HDR, DV and limited Atmos/DTS-X because of bandwidth limitations. And how does it fit on a disc? Cheers Gary My point exactly Gary, I agree.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 9, 2019 18:04:08 GMT -5
I think that it is VERY COOL to see what is currently and will soon-be POSSIBLE. However - NOT being an old "fuddy-duddy", but a Realist / Pragmatist: (And fully agree with what "Musichead" stated previously) Just because it exists and is / may be possible and "COOL" DOES NOT necessarily mean that it's " right for ME" so, "Is it still FUN?" = resounding "YES" 4K/8K/Atmos/THX Certification are all well and good, but in order to reap any REAL benefit from them - you pretty much NEED a Dedicated Home Theater Room / Space with the proper light control and acoustical properties. (plus places to put all of the equipment out of the way and ways to hide the wires for all of those speakers) When it comes to A/V Technology set-up in your average Living Room / Family Room - I'll stand by my argument that: -A Well-Executed 5.1 System (or less) will BLOW-AWAY a half-arsed attempt at Atmos 7, 8, 9-dot-whatever crammed into that same space -2K would be fine for most Screens under the 50-60-inch class in your average room at average viewing distances (and again a Truly EXCELLENT 2K Monitor [if they were available] would probably be better than an "average" 4K Monitor) (if you cannot PROPERLY place / separate the speakers - there really is no reason to have them and how many wives will allow all those wires to be out in the open?) The REAL "trick" is being able to separate the impractical hype from the stuff that will actually MAKE YOUR System better. Some of us enjoy kicking-around ideas about what will / will not work in our spaces nearly as much as actually buying the stuff and playing with it. (I STILL drool over some of the latest and best OLED Monitors that I see at my local Magnolia, but also realize that I have no place to put one of those sucka's...) That's why our next home will have a DEDICATED "Ron Space" where I can put my speakers 3-feet out from the walls if I want to. I've helped install a couple of 5.1.2 systems for friends and the results are really good. Noticeably better than their 5.1 systems even though most of the gear is the same, just a different processor (both Yamaha CX-A5100's) plus a couple of extra amp channels and ceiling speakers. They are better, I believe, because the Atmos/DTS-X mixing is better (but sound quality itself can still be movie dependent) and the processors are better (which could be related to their need for extra processing power). Adding 2 ceiling speakers doesn't sound like much, but the total effect is more than that. The guys have a 65" and 55" TV respectively in their lounge rooms (neither have dedicated HT's), which is the maximum I can fit, so I'm expecting similar results from my 5.1.2 system. Cheers Gary
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Post by highfihoney2 on Jan 9, 2019 23:37:43 GMT -5
I honestly wanted to be an early adopter of Emotivas state of the art processor but it terrifies me,I've grown used to keeping up with 2 channel advancements while running my 30 year old McIntosh C-39 pre/pro through external processor for my 5 channel HT ,I'm a knob twister and button pusher ,the menue on my C-2500 preamp confuses the crap out of me and it's child's play compared to the Emotiva ,I'm just taking the leap into streaming but at the same time not very many of the kids born into this high tech can set up a phono cartridge ,or adjust heads on a tape machines .
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 1:50:02 GMT -5
I've been in electronics technology since high school. From the 1970's things started advancing nicely, 1980's stereo was peaking (wow, cd disk), then 1990's and digital surround sound was fun. Then came HDMI & copy protection (HDCP, etc), ruined the whole damn thing. (the problems it has produced) The technology is amazing, but 2 channel is still king in this house & about to expand to higher quality equipment.
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 10, 2019 9:50:33 GMT -5
I've been in electronics technology since high school. From the 1970's things started advancing nicely, 1980's stereo was peaking (wow, cd disk), then 1990's and digital surround sound was fun. Then came HDMI & copy protection (HDCP, etc), ruined the whole damn thing. (the problems it has produced) The technology is amazing, but 2 channel is still king in this house & about to expand to higher quality equipment. I like how you laid out the timeline....right on the money. And yes HDMI.....a double edged sword ⚔️ if ever there was one. The first thing I liked about it was the standardization, in that putting the real performance specs. On paper, it goes towards debunking most of those cable myths out there. This hasn’t stopped the snake oil outfits but makes it real easy to call them out. I am now quite satisfied using it for critical audio listening. How well that happens depends on both HDMI and the processors configuration, and Emotiva has done a good job in that department. I don’t like the HDMI physical connection....too late to worry about that now, we’re stuck with it. Bill
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 10:35:00 GMT -5
Think about REW, Bill. WE now have the ability to do so many things at home we could never believe possible 25 yrs ago. for FREE! We can tweak DIY speaker design without having an engineering degree or their equipment. I told fellow techs in 1977, we would be buying our music on a tiny chip some day, well close enough. Digital changed the world. I knew a DJ in Atlanta that had 2 rooms of LP's floor to ceiling on every wall. Now he gets his space back and be able to keep up with cataloging. lol
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jan 10, 2019 10:47:11 GMT -5
Before: After: Viva technology!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 10:58:45 GMT -5
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Post by mgbpuff on Jan 10, 2019 11:04:18 GMT -5
But if you don't have the 'before' to back it up, aren't you illegal?
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jan 10, 2019 11:09:27 GMT -5
But if you don't have the 'before' to back it up, aren't you illegal? Storage, not taking up space in the house.
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Post by mgbpuff on Jan 10, 2019 11:32:45 GMT -5
But if you don't have the 'before' to back it up, aren't you illegal? Storage, not taking up space in the house. So you rent storage space for the originals?
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jan 10, 2019 11:33:45 GMT -5
Storage, not taking up space in the house. So you rent storage space for the originals? Garage
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 11:48:03 GMT -5
So many good comments on this thread. Let's not get too caught up on the minutia of it all. It's entertainment, suppose to be fun Like the discussion of sound fields, some like them, others do not- it's free will do what makes you happy and quit worrying what others do or think. We have so many options today. I like video surround, it's fun, doesn't have to be perfect. But music...I want it as close to real life as possible. Others are the opposite, c'est la vie. 8k ha, I don't know if I'll ever do 4k, 1080p with the processing in many products is still pretty darn nice. Enjoy the ride.
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Post by emofrmcgy on Jan 11, 2019 0:08:21 GMT -5
So many good comments on this thread. Let's not get too caught up on the minutia of it all. It's entertainment, suppose to be fun Like the discussion of sound fields, some like them, others do not- it's free will do what makes you happy and quit worrying what others do or think. We have so many options today. I like video surround, it's fun, doesn't have to be perfect. But music...I want it as close to real life as possible. Others are the opposite, c'est la vie. 8k ha, I don't know if I'll ever do 4k, 1080p with the processing in many products is still pretty darn nice. Enjoy the ride. Why you said here intrigued me. “ I want it as close to real life as possible” Do you or Do you Guys Want true to life or pleasing sound ? For an example. I can’t listen to most anything with much for brass instruments. Trumpets hurt like hell in real life. Do you shoot for that same ear piercing shrill sound or do you want something that is pleasing to the ear ? And in partial response to your earlier post laying out the timeline. Lol, no wonder I don’t mind the technology of today. I didn’t even start to care about listening or music for anything other than background music until LATE 90’s. Lol.
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 11, 2019 8:35:16 GMT -5
So many good comments on this thread. Let's not get too caught up on the minutia of it all. It's entertainment, suppose to be fun Like the discussion of sound fields, some like them, others do not- it's free will do what makes you happy and quit worrying what others do or think. We have so many options today. I like video surround, it's fun, doesn't have to be perfect. But music...I want it as close to real life as possible. Others are the opposite, c'est la vie. 8k ha, I don't know if I'll ever do 4k, 1080p with the processing in many products is still pretty darn nice. Enjoy the ride. Why you said here intrigued me. “ I want it as close to real life as possible” Do you or Do you Guys Want true to life or pleasing sound ? For an example. I can’t listen to most anything with much for brass instruments. Trumpets hurt like hell in real life. Do you shoot for that same ear piercing shrill sound or do you want something that is pleasing to the ear ? And in partial response to your earlier post laying out the timeline. Lol, no wonder I don’t mind the technology of today. I didn’t even start to care about listening or music for anything other than background music until LATE 90’s. Lol. Spend some trumpet🎺 time with Cris Botti, Chuck Mangione, and Miles Davis....might have you feeling different about the horn. Bill
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Post by emofrmcgy on Jan 11, 2019 9:45:59 GMT -5
Why you said here intrigued me. “ I want it as close to real life as possible” Do you or Do you Guys Want true to life or pleasing sound ? For an example. I can’t listen to most anything with much for brass instruments. Trumpets hurt like hell in real life. Do you shoot for that same ear piercing shrill sound or do you want something that is pleasing to the ear ? And in partial response to your earlier post laying out the timeline. Lol, no wonder I don’t mind the technology of today. I didn’t even start to care about listening or music for anything other than background music until LATE 90’s. Lol. Spend some trumpet🎺 time with Cris Botti, Chuck Mangione, and Miles Davis....might have you feeling different about the horn. Bill Thank you for the recommend Bill. I have looked to miles Davis for the redemption, sadly it wasn’t so. What is displeasing to me may not be to you. But do you still want these displeasing traits in an “accurate” system or do you go more for pleasing ?
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 11, 2019 10:00:25 GMT -5
Spend some trumpet🎺 time with Cris Botti, Chuck Mangione, and Miles Davis....might have you feeling different about the horn. Bill Thank you for the recommend Bill. I have looked to miles Davis for the redemption, sadly it wasn’t so. What is displeasing to me may not be to you. But do you still want these displeasing traits in an “accurate” system or do you go more for pleasing ? No I totally get what you’re saying. What you want Is a system that reproduces whatever is pleasing to your ears, with as much accuracy as possible. Bill
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 11, 2019 10:22:11 GMT -5
EXTREMELY IMPRESSIVE..... However in a lifetime, I’d never make it from the “before”, to the “after”. More likely, I would jump ship 🚢 and take up skeet shooting or something, Bill
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