|
Post by tchaik on Jan 26, 2019 23:32:24 GMT -5
ok geebo, I watch during day with lots of light and during night with much of the light turned down or off. you think Samsung Qled is a better choice for me then? tchaik................. I now have an LG OLED C8, and a full array Samsung QLED, give me a few weeks and I'll give you my opinion for what it's worth. I am looking forward to your report. thanks..... tchaik............
|
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,494
Member is Online
|
Post by LCSeminole on Jan 26, 2019 23:53:30 GMT -5
ok geebo, I watch during day with lots of light and during night with much of the light turned down or off. you think Samsung Qled is a better choice for me then? tchaik................. I've not used the LG in what I would consider a brightly lit room. But I've never felt wanting greater brightness out of it. I currently have my OLED light set to 65 for normal daytime TV viewing. I can say that in normal lighting the OLED is great and in a dark room watching an HDR or DV movie it can be incredible and far superior to anything else I've seen. Curious to know what "Picture Mode" you are in for SDR content?
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,186
|
Post by geebo on Jan 27, 2019 10:00:54 GMT -5
I've not used the LG in what I would consider a brightly lit room. But I've never felt wanting greater brightness out of it. I currently have my OLED light set to 65 for normal daytime TV viewing. I can say that in normal lighting the OLED is great and in a dark room watching an HDR or DV movie it can be incredible and far superior to anything else I've seen. Curious to know what "Picture Mode" you are in for SDR content? I use Technicolor Expert (User) for everything except with HDR or DV discs or material which do their own thing. Here is a spreadsheet with recommended settings I got somewhere that you might want to try. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wk6YyjAQ3n2FX6RnyosQ79CUArQv9doO4UvVCCXtgFw/edit#gid=854865656
|
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,494
Member is Online
|
Post by LCSeminole on Jan 27, 2019 11:02:44 GMT -5
I’ve been tinkering with ISF Expert Dark and I’m just not quite satisfied. Thanks for the link, I’ve not seen this one and I thought I’d just about seen them all in the past week. I’ll give these a try now.!
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Jan 27, 2019 11:12:46 GMT -5
As I said before, you can't use someone elses settings from their TV and achieve an optimum picture on your TV. Unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. How cool would it be if that were the case.
|
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,494
Member is Online
|
Post by LCSeminole on Jan 27, 2019 11:24:02 GMT -5
As I said before, you can't use someone elses settings from their TV and achieve an optimum picture on your TV. Unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. How cool would it be if that were the case. I’m well aware of this Bonzo, I’m in constant contact with an ISF expert that knows a helluva lot more about this than either you or me combined. So because LG has a few modes and universal settings (that he recommends now) that are well on their way to being closer to ISF specs than other modes right out of the box, using them gets you a good start. I’ll be using my Disney WOW & DVE discs next to dial in SDR a bit better until such time that ChadB is done with his California tour and can schedule me for his next Florida tour which will probably be another 6 to 8 months away.
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Jan 27, 2019 11:35:08 GMT -5
As I said before, you can't use someone elses settings from their TV and achieve an optimum picture on your TV. Unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. How cool would it be if that were the case. I’m well aware of this Bonzo, I’m in constant contact with an ISF expert that knows a helluva lot more about this than either you or me combined. So because LG has a few modes and universal settings (that he recommends now) that are well on their way to being closer to ISF specs than other modes right out of the box, using them gets you a good start. I’ll be using my Disney WOW & DVE discs next to dial in SDR a bit better until such time that ChadB is done with his California tour and can schedule me for his next Florida tour which will probably be another 6 to 8 months away. Just so you are aware, that's my only intention. Many aren't. Heck, look how many here in this little thread didn't know about TV break in. I have worked with 3 separate ISF people over the years, and read a lot from Thomas Norton and Geoffery Morrison (who are probably more experienced than any of my guys or your guy). I'm far from an expert, but when these 5 guys all basically say the same thing, I try to listen and learn. I'm just trying to pass on what I have learned to the forum. I find it amusing that so many people here are audiophile nuts, and can adjust everything to the nth degree, and have endless opinions on ways to improve sound. But when it comes to a few simple "facts" about TVs, they either don't know or don't care.
|
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,494
Member is Online
|
Post by LCSeminole on Jan 27, 2019 11:57:53 GMT -5
I’m well aware of this Bonzo, I’m in constant contact with an ISF expert that knows a helluva lot more about this than either you or me combined. So because LG has a few modes and universal settings (that he recommends now) that are well on their way to being closer to ISF specs than other modes right out of the box, using them gets you a good start. I’ll be using my Disney WOW & DVE discs next to dial in SDR a bit better until such time that ChadB is done with his California tour and can schedule me for his next Florida tour which will probably be another 6 to 8 months away. Just so you are aware, that's my only intention. Many aren't. Heck, look how many here in this little thread didn't know about TV break in. I have worked with 3 separate ISF people over the years, and read a lot from Thomas Norton and Geoffery Morrison (who are probably more experienced than any of my guys or your guy). I'm far from an expert, but when these 5 guys all basically say the same thing, I try to listen and learn. I'm just trying to pass on what I have learned to the forum. I find it amusing that so many people here are audiophile nuts, and can adjust everything to the nth degree, and have endless opinions on ways to improve sound. But when it comes to a few simple "facts" about TVs, they either don't know or don't care. Even Thomas Norton gives universal settings recommendations in his reviews, what most experts including mine do not do is give actual calibration settings of contrast, brightness, sharpness, color, tint, white balance(2 & 10 point), Gamma, saturation , luminance, and color mgmt, because as both you and I already know that hardware even same models can have variances(some slight/some significant) which makes them all unique calibration-wise. I too find it astonishing that many audio enthusiast neglect the video side of their setup, especially when they have a flat panel or projector that have all the built settings(whether user friendly or hidden in the Service Menu) to bring an optimal video experience in their home. The “camel to water” saying applies here. I will admit until I sat in on an ISF calibration 8 or 9 years ago I was ignorant to what these experts bring to the table and the before/after results. I still have the .pdf results from my last two ISF calibrations and was astonished how way off both of them were.
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Jan 27, 2019 12:16:38 GMT -5
Just so you are aware, that's my only intention. Many aren't. Heck, look how many here in this little thread didn't know about TV break in. I have worked with 3 separate ISF people over the years, and read a lot from Thomas Norton and Geoffery Morrison (who are probably more experienced than any of my guys or your guy). I'm far from an expert, but when these 5 guys all basically say the same thing, I try to listen and learn. I'm just trying to pass on what I have learned to the forum. I find it amusing that so many people here are audiophile nuts, and can adjust everything to the nth degree, and have endless opinions on ways to improve sound. But when it comes to a few simple "facts" about TVs, they either don't know or don't care. Even Thomas Norton gives universal settings recommendations in his reviews, what most experts including mine do not do is give actual calibration settings of contrast, brightness, sharpness, color, tint, white balance(2 & 10 point), Gamma, saturation , luminance, etc,etc,etc, because as both you and I already know that hardware even same models can have variances(some slight/some significant) which makes them all unique calibration-wise. I too find it astonishing that many audio enthusiast neglect the video side of their setup, especially when they have a flat panel or projector that have all the built settings(whether user friendly or hidden in the Service Menu) to bring an optimal video experience in their home. From Thomas Norton's review of my model TV, I was able to get every setting available, even the gray scale stuff that used to be burried behind secret doors (on my ZT all is available to anyone). I did exactly what you are doing to just get the ball rolling. I thought the image looked pretty good. As is life, it took me way longer to get back around to having it calibrated than I wanted, so I basically got used to the Norton settings. Once I finally got it calibrated the difference was astounding. To tell the truth, at first, I didn't like it. But as was with every previous calibration, the guy told me to just live with it for a few weeks. And so I did. Once I got used to it I found myself never being distracted by anything on the screen. Why? Because it all just looked so real and natural that nothing wrong called attention to itself. I do think proper calibration is NOT for everyone, because it can be rather dull really. But I will say this, everyone that visits my house says something like, "wow, your TV just looks so different than ours. On your TV it all looks REAL." I think thats the ultimate goal of video reproduction. At least for me it is. If a TV looks real on content meant to look real, then one can rest assured that when stuff looks really wacky, bright, and overly saturated, or dull, dim and dreary, that those looks are intended. The big glitch in the system is broadcasters and what they do to the image. A good example is Harry Potter. For many years ABC Family had the shows and played them regularly. Their settings made everything look washed out and dull. But now, some other channel (I forget off the top of my head) has picked them up, and the PQ is MUCH better. It sucks broadcasters are always messing with things. But they have been doing this since the beginning. Its only with the new HD age that it has become increasingly noticable.
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Jan 27, 2019 12:30:55 GMT -5
You added the camel to water part after I began answering you, which is funny because I was thinking the EXACT same thing. Scary.
I think the biggest problem is cost. Most normal people don't want to spend the money for it. I get it. $1000 on a TV then another $300 just to have it look right? But I spent $3000 for the TV, so the $400 calibration wasn't as hard to swallow.
I will always recommend calibration for someone's main viewing screen, especially if the person is serious about the experience. But not so much for other TVs. Like, I'm not paying to have my $500 Samsung Plasma calibrated in the kitchen area. $400 for a $500 TV doesn't add up. And THIS is why it sucks that TVs don't come properly calibrated from the get go.
|
|
|
Post by Jean Genie on Jan 27, 2019 13:57:17 GMT -5
Excuse my ignorance but, what does "...blacks are crushed" mean?😕
|
|
|
Post by ottaone on Jan 27, 2019 15:34:53 GMT -5
I would have gone for the LG OLED but we wanted at least 75" and C7 at 77" was about C$10K. I'm not paying that much for a TV so settled on Sony XBR900F which is a FALD LCD with Dolby Vision support which was a must for me.
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Jan 27, 2019 15:56:24 GMT -5
Excuse my ignorance but, what does "...blacks are crushed" mean?😕 I see it as being the black levels not being differentiated. So the picture is black but there is not accurate levels of deep black from say slightly darker grays. So for instance differentiating a blacks suit on a person from the background of a black night under minimal lighting.
|
|
cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,897
|
Post by cawgijoe on Jan 27, 2019 16:14:17 GMT -5
You added the camel to water part after I began answering you, which is funny because I was thinking the EXACT same thing. Scary. I think the biggest problem is cost. Most normal people don't want to spend the money for it. I get it. $1000 on a TV then another $300 just to have it look right? But I spent $3000 for the TV, so the $400 calibration wasn't as hard to swallow. I will always recommend calibration for someone's main viewing screen, especially if the person is serious about the experience. But not so much for other TVs. Like, I'm not paying to have my $500 Samsung Plasma calibrated in the kitchen area. $400 for a $500 TV doesn't add up. And THIS is why it sucks that TVs don't come properly calibrated from the get go. It’s definitely cost. That and as the set ages, you would want to recalibrate professionally every couple years. Ouch! I know it’s not completely ideal, but you can get an excellent picture using a starting point from a review that provides settings and then tweaking that with a calibration disc such as Disney WoW or DVE. Again, it’s not going to be perfect, but you will get a great picture.
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,223
|
Post by novisnick on Jan 27, 2019 17:37:05 GMT -5
Excuse my ignorance but, what does "...blacks are crushed" mean?😕 I see it as being the black levels not being differentiated. So the picture is black but there is not accurate levels of deep black from say slightly darker grays. So for instance differentiating a blacks suit on a person from the background of a black night under minimal lighting. Exactly! Not seeing differences in black levels, therefore the color blends together and looks the same vs seeing texturization!
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Jan 27, 2019 17:40:54 GMT -5
I see it as being the black levels not being differentiated. So the picture is black but there is not accurate levels of deep black from say slightly darker grays. So for instance differentiating a blacks suit on a person from the background of a black night under minimal lighting. Exactly! Not seeing differences in black levels, therefore the color blends together and looks the same vs seeing texturization! Yep or on a black suit seeing the individual threads and materials or the black pockets of a black suit in a dark scene. Our eyes can easily do it but televisions can't do it as well. I thought the OLEDS I've seen do it rather well but I haven't looked at them long enough to see their limitations.
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,223
|
Post by novisnick on Jan 27, 2019 18:21:11 GMT -5
Exactly! Not seeing differences in black levels, therefore the color blends together and looks the same vs seeing texturization! Yep or on a black suit seeing the individual threads and materials or the black pockets of a black suit in a dark scene. Our eyes can easily do it but televisions can't do it as well. I thought the OLEDS I've seen do it rather well but I haven't looked at them long enough to see their limitations. I’ve seen examples on both LG B&C models as well as Q8&9 models.but the Q’s seem to do a better job with this and the LD OLED does a better job at others. It all depends on what you prefer. I’ve also read the Panasonic and Sony do a better job of matching true world colors. Who has a four sided coin? LOL At a certain point they all have faults ond positives!
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,186
|
Post by geebo on Jan 27, 2019 18:23:11 GMT -5
Black detail on the LG OLED is far better than I had with my 2014 Samsung with upgraded SEK-2000 controller. At least to my eyes and in my room with stock power cord.
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Jan 27, 2019 18:39:04 GMT -5
The scene in Harry Potter when Voldemort is on the hill outside the castle with all his cronies is a black level torture test.
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Jan 27, 2019 18:47:38 GMT -5
You added the camel to water part after I began answering you, which is funny because I was thinking the EXACT same thing. Scary. I think the biggest problem is cost. Most normal people don't want to spend the money for it. I get it. $1000 on a TV then another $300 just to have it look right? But I spent $3000 for the TV, so the $400 calibration wasn't as hard to swallow. I will always recommend calibration for someone's main viewing screen, especially if the person is serious about the experience. But not so much for other TVs. Like, I'm not paying to have my $500 Samsung Plasma calibrated in the kitchen area. $400 for a $500 TV doesn't add up. And THIS is why it sucks that TVs don't come properly calibrated from the get go. It’s definitely cost. That and as the set ages, you would want to recalibrate professionally every couple years. Ouch! I know it’s not completely ideal, but you can get an excellent picture using a starting point from a review that provides settings and then tweaking that with a calibration disc such as Disney WoW or DVE. Again, it’s not going to be perfect, but you will get a great picture. Like I've said before above, doing this is a nice place to start while breaking in your set, but in my experience, the difference after calibration is NIGHT and DAY difference. There simply is no comparison. Anyone spending $2000k on a TV should get a calibration, no questions about it.
|
|