tiger
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 3
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Post by tiger on Feb 4, 2019 13:49:19 GMT -5
I am planning to install Home Theater Audio gear in my Game room. The room size is 16 ft x 18 ft. and there is only one wall on the 16 ft side (open to stairs). I have Definitive Tech Tower speakers (old BP2002) , matching Center and surrounds. Have just bought a Sony 900 series 75" TV and a Marantz 8805 preamp. I plan to do a 5.1.4 Atmos system. I am considering two options on the Amps:
a) To have one XPA-DR3 running the front Left, Right and Center and one XPA 7-Gen 3 powering the two surrounds and four atmos speakers. (Actually I will use only 6 channels on this amp). b) To have one XPA-DR2 running the front left and right and one XPA 7-Gen 3 powering the Center, two surrounds and four Atmos.
Any ideas/suggestions will be appreciated. One question I have is does it help if all three front channels are powered by the same amp (XPA-DR3, option (a)) or it does not matter if the center channel is powered by a lower power amp (XPA 7, Gen3, option (b).
Also, what is the actual Power Consumption for the two above amps with all channels running (I do not mean the rated power). Thanks.
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 4, 2019 14:11:49 GMT -5
It really doesn't make any difference. How about a custom 9-3-3s to fit your needs exactly in one chassis?
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,213
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Post by novisnick on Feb 4, 2019 14:13:51 GMT -5
I am planning to install Home Theater Audio gear in my Game room. The room size is 16 ft x 18 ft. and there is only one wall on the 16 ft side (open to stairs). I have Definitive Tech Tower speakers (old BP2002) , matching Center and surrounds. Have just bought a Sony 900 series 75" TV and a Marantz 8805 preamp. I plan to do a 5.1.4 Atmos system. I am considering two options on the Amps: a) To have one XPA-DR3 running the front Left, Right and Center and one XPA 7-Gen 3 powering the two surrounds and four atmos speakers. (Actually I will use only 6 channels on this amp). b) To have one XPA-DR2 running the front left and right and one XPA 7-Gen 3 powering the Center, two surrounds and four Atmos. Any ideas/suggestions will be appreciated. One question I have is does it help if all three front channels are powered by the same amp (XPA-DR3, option (a)) or it does not matter if the center channel is powered by a lower power amp (XPA 7, Gen3, option (b). Also, what is the actual Power Consumption for the two above amps with all channels running (I do not mean the rated power). Thanks. Hi tiger are you a two channel guy? For surrounds and ceiling speakers I’m using a more economical amp to power them as I don’t believe they need the extra watts. If you are a two channel guy I’d put that money into Monoblocks! 😁🎶🎶 Perhaps a mixture of Bass amps.
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 4, 2019 16:19:27 GMT -5
I am planning to install Home Theater Audio gear in my Game room. The room size is 16 ft x 18 ft. and there is only one wall on the 16 ft side (open to stairs). I have Definitive Tech Tower speakers (old BP2002) , matching Center and surrounds. Have just bought a Sony 900 series 75" TV and a Marantz 8805 preamp. I plan to do a 5.1.4 Atmos system. I am considering two options on the Amps: a) To have one XPA-DR3 running the front Left, Right and Center and one XPA 7-Gen 3 powering the two surrounds and four atmos speakers. (Actually I will use only 6 channels on this amp). b) To have one XPA-DR2 running the front left and right and one XPA 7-Gen 3 powering the Center, two surrounds and four Atmos. Any ideas/suggestions will be appreciated. One question I have is does it help if all three front channels are powered by the same amp (XPA-DR3, option (a)) or it does not matter if the center channel is powered by a lower power amp (XPA 7, Gen3, option (b). Also, what is the actual Power Consumption for the two above amps with all channels running (I do not mean the rated power). Thanks. While the AV8805 has "balanced" outputs, it is not a "full differential" design as is the DR series amps. Aside from the modest increase in power, there's no real benefit to you in investing twice the amount of money on this type of amp. See Lonnie's video HERE where he explains what a "differential" balanced design is and what it brings to the table. He's talking about the XSP-1 preamp, but the "full differential" principle is the same. IMO, if you're not deferentially balanced from the source, the benefit of the design is lost. You'd just be paying for extra parts you won't gain much from. If it were me, and having the same system, I'd forgo spending up to $3998 on a combination of amps (DR-3 plus XPA-7) and go with an XPA-9 ($1999) instead. You'd save 50% in the total cost. Maybe put that savings towards an upgrade somewhere else in your system. The XPA-9 will give you equal and ample power across your 5 bed channels while also sufficiently powering your height channels where large amounts of power isn't necessarily needed. Just my humble suggestion...
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Post by davidl81 on Feb 4, 2019 16:28:04 GMT -5
Looking at the speakers that OP has the BP 2002 has a built in amp for the sub, so you are really only pushing the mids and highs with the amp. The DR-2 (or DR-3) is really overkill for this. I agree with the XPA-9 setup as the best bang for your buck. If you do a lot of 2 channel then maybe consider a XPA-2/XPA-7 combo, but I don't think you will hear much of a difference at all over the XPA-9.
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Post by davidl81 on Feb 4, 2019 16:33:15 GMT -5
I am planning to install Home Theater Audio gear in my Game room. The room size is 16 ft x 18 ft. and there is only one wall on the 16 ft side (open to stairs). I have Definitive Tech Tower speakers (old BP2002) , matching Center and surrounds. Have just bought a Sony 900 series 75" TV and a Marantz 8805 preamp. I plan to do a 5.1.4 Atmos system. I am considering two options on the Amps: a) To have one XPA-DR3 running the front Left, Right and Center and one XPA 7-Gen 3 powering the two surrounds and four atmos speakers. (Actually I will use only 6 channels on this amp). b) To have one XPA-DR2 running the front left and right and one XPA 7-Gen 3 powering the Center, two surrounds and four Atmos. Any ideas/suggestions will be appreciated. One question I have is does it help if all three front channels are powered by the same amp (XPA-DR3, option (a)) or it does not matter if the center channel is powered by a lower power amp (XPA 7, Gen3, option (b). Also, what is the actual Power Consumption for the two above amps with all channels running (I do not mean the rated power). Thanks. As far as power consumption my DR-2 and XPA-5 run through my panamax power center that shows the Amp draw. With the amps off I show right at a 1.1A draw. With the amps on and a movie playing at moderate to slightly loud volume my amp draw is about 1.8A (basically the amps are drawing 80 Watts total). I have hit a peak of about 8A but this was done in 2 channel (just my DR-2) at an insane volume level. That would back into about 800W of draw, but it was very momentary. I have never come close to that draw while playing a movie with all channels going at one time.
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 4, 2019 17:34:22 GMT -5
Looking at the speakers that OP has the BP 2002 has a built in amp for the sub, so you are really only pushing the mids and highs with the amp. The DR-2 (or DR-3) is really overkill for this. I agree with the XPA-9 setup as the best bang for your buck. If you do a lot of 2 channel then maybe consider a XPA-2/XPA-7 combo, but I don't think you will hear much of a difference at all over the XPA-9. Ahhh... good catch, which brings up this caveat with the DR series amps. From the manual: " WARNING - EACH DIFFERENTIAL REFERENCE AMPLIFIER CHANNEL IS FULLY BALANCED. BOTH SPEAKER OUTPUT TERMINALS CARRY AN ACTIVE SIGNAL. DO NOT CONNECT THE (-) SPEAKER OUTPUT TERMINAL TO GROUND. DO NOT CONNECT THE SPEAKER OUTPUT TO A SPEAKER SWITCH OR POWERED SPEAKER WITH A COMMON GROUND. DOING SO WILL RESULT IN DAMAGE TO YOUR AMPLIFIER OR TO YOUR SPEAKER OR OTHER EQUIPMENT!" So, if you are considering the DR series amp, it would be wise to check with Emotiva (or the speaker's manufacturer) to make sure it will work safely with your particular speakers.
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Post by mountain on Feb 4, 2019 17:44:54 GMT -5
I have the older def. tech. Bp 2000’s. They sound great with a nice 200 watt per channel all channels driven amplifier. No problems, I personally don’t see the need to go fully differential. Enjoy.
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tiger
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 3
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Post by tiger on Feb 5, 2019 11:17:30 GMT -5
Thank you everyone. My thought process is now on the right track. Based on your collective comments, this is what I am thinking: 1) Agree DR 3 is overkill.
2) Since amps have a longer life than pre-amps, I do not mind spending a little extra if I can make these amps future proof not just in technology but also future capacity needs. Even though I have Def Techs towers 2002 now, I am looking at B&W 207 in case the Def Techs are not working out. Considering One two channel amp XPA-2 and a smaller 7 channel amp. Not sure which. Any suggestions? Where should one look for a good used Classe, Bryston, etc. (2 Channel).
3) My earlier question on the power consumption was due to the fact that someone was questioning the power rating of the XPA/DR channels. If Emotiva claims that the XPA -7 delivers 200 watts per channel, all channels driven then the power consumption should be around 1400 watts or around 12 amps. I did not see anywhere in the specs what the power consumption is.
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Post by davidl81 on Feb 5, 2019 11:38:02 GMT -5
Thank you everyone. My thought process is now on the right track. Based on your collective comments, this is what I am thinking: 1) Agree DR 3 is overkill. 2) Since amps have a longer life than pre-amps, I do not mind spending a little extra if I can make these amps future proof not just in technology but also future capacity needs. Even though I have Def Techs towers 2002 now, I am looking at B&W 207 in case the Def Techs are not working out. Considering One two channel amp XPA-2 and a smaller 7 channel amp. Not sure which. Any suggestions? Where should one look for a good used Classe, Bryston, etc. (2 Channel). 3) My earlier question on the power consumption was due to the fact that someone was questioning the power rating of the XPA/DR channels. If Emotiva claims that the XPA -7 delivers 200 watts per channel, all channels driven then the power consumption should be around 1400 watts or around 12 amps. I did not see anywhere in the specs what the power consumption is. For the seven channel amp I personally am a fan of the XPA-7 since it would give your center channel (by far the most used channel in a HT setup) a very generous power supply. If not the XPA-7 the BasX A-700 has served me very well, but it is only on my Atmos speakers so I am not sure how it would do on the center channel. My gut tells me it would be fine though. As far as used amps there are several places to look. This forum has a buy/sell board (The Emporium) which has some stuff on it. AVS forum's classified section is great IMO for audio stuff, and you can also look at Audiogon. Ebay has the best selection as well as pretty good buyer protection. The only down side is that you will end up paying 10-15% more there as sellers have to cover their fees. As far as power consumption just remember that those power ratings are only achievable on a test bench situation where a certain tone signal is driven to the amp to make it create its maximum power output. I can't think of any real world application that would ever drive all seven channels of an amp to maximum power all at the same time.
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 5, 2019 12:58:04 GMT -5
Thank you everyone. My thought process is now on the right track. Based on your collective comments, this is what I am thinking: 1) Agree DR 3 is overkill. 2) Since amps have a longer life than pre-amps, I do not mind spending a little extra if I can make these amps future proof not just in technology but also future capacity needs. Even though I have Def Techs towers 2002 now, I am looking at B&W 207 in case the Def Techs are not working out. Considering One two channel amp XPA-2 and a smaller 7 channel amp. Not sure which. Any suggestions? Where should one look for a good used Classe, Bryston, etc. (2 Channel). 3) My earlier question on the power consumption was due to the fact that someone was questioning the power rating of the XPA/DR channels. If Emotiva claims that the XPA -7 delivers 200 watts per channel, all channels driven then the power consumption should be around 1400 watts or around 12 amps. I did not see anywhere in the specs what the power consumption is. If you want to go with two different amps (which is fine, a lot of us do), then don't forget one of the best features of the XPA Gen3 amps... they're "scalable". You can configure them to fit your needs now, and down the road when your needs change. For now, you need 9 channels of amplification, but four of those channels (your height channels) do not require huge amounts of power. So, you "could" go the route of an XPA-2 along with an "off the shelf" XPA-7 which gives you similar power to all 9 channels. The total cost for this configuration is $2998 Or, you could go with an "off the shelf" XPA-2 along with a "Build Your Own" version of an XPA-7. For your seven, you could combine 3 "mono" blades along with 2 "stereo" blades which still gives you 7 channels of amplification, but ends up being $400 cheaper than a stock XPA-7. This configuration would provide the most power to your 5 bed channels, where it's needed, and more than enough power to your height channels. The total cost for this configuration is $2598. When/If your needs change, Emotiva can add (or swap out) the individual blades to suit any future configuration. For example, if you decide to go 7.1.4, just add two more mono blades to the seven for a total of nine. Or, if you decide to go 5.1.6, then add a single stereo blade. Hope that makes sense...
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Post by leonski on Feb 6, 2019 16:35:01 GMT -5
Whatever you end up doing, try to budget for a dedicated power line to the system. All amplifiers run off this circuit while the low powered stuff runs off 'the other' circuit.
Thinking downstream is a VERY good idea. Getting stuff which can and will survive a couple 'upgrade' cycles is just good sense. It is difficult by this method to have 'too much' amp. You simply, however, do not need a wall full of monoblocks. Nice, but probably vast overkill.
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tiger
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 3
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Post by tiger on Feb 20, 2019 10:23:47 GMT -5
I have found a Demo McIntosh MC312 amp (300W x 2 Channels) which I am planning to use for stereo. I will use XPA-7 to run the Center, 2 surrounds and 4 Atmos speakers.
McIntosh tells me that if I want a good matching between the Left, Right and Center channels, the Input Sensitivity of the Emotiva XPA should match the McIntosh amps which is 3.4 for Balanced and 1.7 for Unbalanced. Any comments on this?
Also, what is the Input SEnsitivity of the XPA Gen 7 ? I did not get any answer when I called Emotiva.
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 20, 2019 10:52:04 GMT -5
I have found a Demo McIntosh MC312 amp (300W x 2 Channels) which I am planning to use for stereo. I will use XPA-7 to run the Center, 2 surrounds and 4 Atmos speakers. McIntosh tells me that if I want a good matching between the Left, Right and Center channels, the Input Sensitivity of the Emotiva XPA should match the McIntosh amps which is 3.4 for Balanced and 1.7 for Unbalanced. Any comments on this? Also, what is the Input SEnsitivity of the XPA Gen 7 ? I did not get any answer when I called Emotiva. Quoted from the specs as found on the XPA-7 Gen3 product page on Emotiva's website... "Input Sensitivity (for rated power; 8 Ohm load): 1.5 V"
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Post by rbk123 on Feb 20, 2019 11:29:17 GMT -5
McIntosh tells me that if I want a good matching between the Left, Right and Center channels, the Input Sensitivity of the Emotiva XPA should match the McIntosh amps which is 3.4 for Balanced and 1.7 for Unbalanced. Any comments on this? While true in theory, the reality is most have their center channels configured with different settings than their mains to better hear dialogue and whatever info is in the center. So level/sensitivity type settings become moot.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,901
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Post by KeithL on Feb 20, 2019 11:52:37 GMT -5
All modern processors have level trims which are used to match the levels between channels. (And most automatic room correction systems set them automatically.)
Therefore, an exact match in gain between amplifier channels is unnecessary. Likewise, the trims are used to match levels between speakers, which often vary by several dB, especially between mains and surrounds.
(You should also note that, if two amplifiers have different power ratings, and the exact same gain, they will require slightly different voltages to reach full power anyway.)
The only thing I would sorry about with matching different amps would be left/right symmetry.
I have found a Demo McIntosh MC312 amp (300W x 2 Channels) which I am planning to use for stereo. I will use XPA-7 to run the Center, 2 surrounds and 4 Atmos speakers. McIntosh tells me that if I want a good matching between the Left, Right and Center channels, the Input Sensitivity of the Emotiva XPA should match the McIntosh amps which is 3.4 for Balanced and 1.7 for Unbalanced. Any comments on this? Also, what is the Input SEnsitivity of the XPA Gen 7 ? I did not get any answer when I called Emotiva. Quoted from the specs as found on the XPA-7 Gen3 product page on Emotiva's website... "Input Sensitivity (for rated power; 8 Ohm load): 1.5 V"
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Post by leonski on Feb 20, 2019 14:18:09 GMT -5
I have found a Demo McIntosh MC312 amp (300W x 2 Channels) which I am planning to use for stereo. I will use XPA-7 to run the Center, 2 surrounds and 4 Atmos speakers. McIntosh tells me that if I want a good matching between the Left, Right and Center channels, the Input Sensitivity of the Emotiva XPA should match the McIntosh amps which is 3.4 for Balanced and 1.7 for Unbalanced. Any comments on this? Also, what is the Input SEnsitivity of the XPA Gen 7 ? I did not get any answer when I called Emotiva. Quoted from the specs as found on the XPA-7 Gen3 product page on Emotiva's website... "Input Sensitivity (for rated power; 8 Ohm load): 1.5 V" Given that information, it is possible to calculate GAIN, which might be what Mc gives in the specs. Amp manufacturers will usually spec either gain or sensitivity..... Any chance of getting a dedicated power circuit for the 2 amps?
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 20, 2019 14:40:55 GMT -5
Quoted from the specs as found on the XPA-7 Gen3 product page on Emotiva's website... "Input Sensitivity (for rated power; 8 Ohm load): 1.5 V" Given that information, it is possible to calculate GAIN, which might be what Mc gives in the specs. Amp manufacturers will usually spec either gain or sensitivity..... Any chance of getting a dedicated power circuit for the 2 amps? The gain quoted in Emotiva's specs for all of their XPA series amps Gen2 and higher (as well as for their BasX series) is 29 dB.
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Post by SteveH on Feb 20, 2019 16:54:32 GMT -5
Whatever you end up doing, try to budget for a dedicated power line to the system. All amplifiers run off this circuit while the low powered stuff runs off 'the other' circuit. I agree with leonski. 2018/2019 is my first audio equipment upgrade since 1992. I replaced all of my Carver amplifiers and prepro with Emotiva equipment. Before I hooked up my new Emotiva gear, I added a sub-panel with six dedicated dual voltage 125V/250V branch circuits for the two monoblocks, the Thirteen 1-6S, two subwoofers and the RMC-1. My family room lights don't dim with the bass anymore.
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Post by davidl81 on Feb 20, 2019 17:07:36 GMT -5
I have found a Demo McIntosh MC312 amp (300W x 2 Channels) which I am planning to use for stereo. I will use XPA-7 to run the Center, 2 surrounds and 4 Atmos speakers. McIntosh tells me that if I want a good matching between the Left, Right and Center channels, the Input Sensitivity of the Emotiva XPA should match the McIntosh amps which is 3.4 for Balanced and 1.7 for Unbalanced. Any comments on this? Also, what is the Input SEnsitivity of the XPA Gen 7 ? I did not get any answer when I called Emotiva. Your Marantz AV8805 will take care of the gain levels when you run the setup. It will adjust the gain for all of your channels, and make everything work in your room. You will find that even your L and R channels may have a slight variation in gain levels since your room dynamics will play a part in the settings. FYI, I think you are going to have an incredible setup.
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