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Post by garbulky on Feb 6, 2019 18:20:56 GMT -5
garbulky, so the answer is 'no' to "fuller and larger sound". I purposely did not write that because those amplifiers have a full and large sound in comparison to good class ab amps I’ve heard. They really are very good imo.
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Post by jackfish on Feb 6, 2019 19:57:59 GMT -5
D-Sonic amps are a real price/performance leader. 400 wpc for less than $1500. And for that price I could buy five (count'em - 5 - that's FIVE) Emotiva PA-1 amplifiers! I'm not saying that D-Sonic amps aren't a bargain, but they can't touch Emotiva's price to performance ratio. Now if you NEED 400 watts, as opposed to just thinking you do, then yeah, D-Sonic will fix your Jones. But since most home audio listening (stereo not HT) is done at ONE watt or less, and with 10 watt maximums if you're playing REALLY loudly, then 140 watts is not only adequate, but actually wretched overkill for the purpose. Boomzilla I’m actually surprised that as a percipient of classical music you would essentially poo poo the value of reserve power to accommodate transient peaks in program material. It’s true, I have magnetic planar speakers and do require substantial power for my listening preferences and circumstances, but I learned long ago that what may be adequate for some is severely lacking for me. As I stated before, the Emotiva PA-1 power amp seems adequate for relatively small rooms or efficient speakers, and perhaps the majority of people restricted financially. But, they are not going to be the best solution for many with specific equipment, room or listening preferences or circumstances.
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Post by rbk123 on Feb 6, 2019 20:21:07 GMT -5
Boom isn't saying the PA-1's are the best solution, rather the best price to performance for Class D amps. He did acknowledge some "NEED" more power.
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Post by boomzilla on Feb 6, 2019 23:38:43 GMT -5
I can certainly think of speakers that would be a terrible match for the Emotiva PA-1 amplifiers. Among that list would be:
Apogee Duettas (low impedance from midrange down and very low sensitivity) Thiel CS-5i speakers (low impedance at low frequencies and a complex crossover) Martin-Logan electrostats (low impedance at high frequencies)
And more.
And in those circumstances, more powerful amplifiers are certainly called for. But 99.9% of the audio public would be VERY well served by the PA-1s, IMHO. Yes, they could spend more, but the point of diminishing returns was reached at a far lower cost.
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Post by jackfish on Feb 9, 2019 12:29:53 GMT -5
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Post by pedrocols on Feb 9, 2019 21:35:09 GMT -5
It seems to me all these Class D amps (except for Emotiva) are overpriced.
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Post by boomzilla on Feb 10, 2019 6:46:05 GMT -5
And the trolls are beginning to descend on the PA-1 amp review. To date, not a single criticism has come from anyone who has actually heard the amplifier. Instead, there's the usual litany of "...the Hypex nCores have better specs!" To which I'd reply "and at their price, they SHOULD."
Sigh...
ANYONE in the market for a home audio amp should at least be considering the PA-1, IMHO. Definitely worth a listen.
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Post by bolle on Feb 10, 2019 7:29:17 GMT -5
As an alternative - IMG STA-1000D. (https://www.img-stageline.com/products/pa-systems/pa-amplifiers/digital-pa-amplifiers/sta-1000d/) Goes for about 400€, Incorporating this: www.pascal-audio.com/product/s-pro2/. This is also used in here for example: www.jeffrowlandgroup.com/model-535/. These replaced my PA 7-350 after direct comparison. They are also sonically far superior to the Crown XLS. And no, I didn´t hear the PA-1...
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Post by leonski on Feb 11, 2019 14:53:32 GMT -5
And for that price I could buy five (count'em - 5 - that's FIVE) Emotiva PA-1 amplifiers! I'm not saying that D-Sonic amps aren't a bargain, but they can't touch Emotiva's price to performance ratio. Now if you NEED 400 watts, as opposed to just thinking you do, then yeah, D-Sonic will fix your Jones. But since most home audio listening (stereo not HT) is done at ONE watt or less, and with 10 watt maximums if you're playing REALLY loudly, then 140 watts is not only adequate, but actually wretched overkill for the purpose. Boomzilla I’m actually surprised that as a percipient of classical music you would essentially poo poo the value of reserve power to accommodate transient peaks in program material. It’s true, I have magnetic planar speakers and do require substantial power for my listening preferences and circumstances, but I learned long ago that what may be adequate for some is severely lacking for me. As I stated before, the Emotiva PA-1 power amp seems adequate for relatively small rooms or efficient speakers, and perhaps the majority of people restricted financially. But, they are not going to be the best solution for many with specific equipment, room or listening preferences or circumstances. The REAL surprise is that so many persons overestimate how much power they really need. Than go buy Mondo Monoblocks for the front 3 channels AND plug the entire system into a single 15 amp circuit. Can you spell 'Brownout'? Me? I've been a panel owner for Decades, starting with MG-1 which I successfully ran with an integrated of about 80 a side, 4ohm. Of course, later when I bought a Carver Cube of maybe 250 a side, that was much improved. What? Maybe 4 or 5 db additional headroom? After several adventures, some 'MISadventures', I settled on Parasound of 2x200 (4ohm) PER PANEL. If I ever go to a true Biamp (MiniDSP Crossover?) that'll gain me between 2db and 3db additional headroom. The PA-1 with 270watts @0.1%(4ohm) and the ability to work into <3ohm loads? I don't see the problem. In a distributed system of 5.1 or maybe 7.1 or one of the new 'exotic' setups, you'll have PLENTY of power. A 5.1 system with 5 of em? Even at 8 ohms? Somewhere between 600 and 700 watts available. Isn't that ENOUGH?
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Post by rbk123 on Feb 11, 2019 15:00:02 GMT -5
It would be cool if they could make a 2 channel version in that form factor for desktop setups, but I assume the B&O card takes up most of the chassis so a 2 channel would just be pretty much the same size as 2 of the PA-1's.
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Post by pedrocols on Feb 11, 2019 16:12:31 GMT -5
As an alternative - IMG STA-1000D. (https://www.img-stageline.com/products/pa-systems/pa-amplifiers/digital-pa-amplifiers/sta-1000d/) Goes for about 400€, Incorporating this: www.pascal-audio.com/product/s-pro2/. This is also used in here for example: www.jeffrowlandgroup.com/model-535/. These replaced my PA 7-350 after direct comparison. They are also sonically far superior to the Crown XLS. And no, I didn´t hear the PA-1... I haven't heard any of the amps you cited and in my subjective opinion they are overpriced.
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Post by leonski on Feb 11, 2019 17:39:51 GMT -5
Just looked the STA-1999D and find it's listed as a PA amp. Without regard to the rest of the specs, some of which are misleading, I'm not thinking this is for me.
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Post by randolfw on Feb 20, 2019 0:53:50 GMT -5
Has anyone with Maggies actually auditioned the PA-1 amp? My MC1s are 4ohm and 86db sensitivity but they are crossed over at 100hz, thinking a stack of these might sound good in my modest Maggie home theater.
-Randy
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Post by leonski on Feb 20, 2019 1:20:41 GMT -5
I had an EARLIER version of B&O amps. The ASP module was sold by W4S, PSAudio and many others.
Nice amp with plenty of power. I had the GCC250 from PSAudio which was 500x2 @4ohms.
EMO buys the ASC module which is supposed to be 'better', but not specified in what measureable, or perhaps audible.
For a multi=channel system, even with low sensitvity panels AND apparently spared the lowest octave or so, you should be
fine with the PA-1.
I used my PSAudio with ealy MG-1 panels and later with MG1.6qr which I still own. Real 'smooth' power and a VERY low noise floor help.
The MC-1 is the wall-foldable panel, right? How is the MiniDSP used in your system?
And WHCIH MiniDSP do you have? 2x4 might work, but I'd suspect the 2x8 or even higher up the line to be more useable.
Because of personal system goals, I gave up 'D' amps and moved back to more conventional stuff.
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Post by boomzilla on Feb 20, 2019 3:00:28 GMT -5
...EMO buys the ASC module which is supposed to be 'better', but not specified in what measurable, or perhaps audible. The Emotiva claim is "audible advantage - and first at their price point." For a multi=channel system, even with low sensitivity panels AND apparently spared the lowest octave or so, you should be fine with the PA-1... Agreed. ...Because of personal system goals, I gave up 'D' amps and moved back to more conventional stuff. To borrow a phrase from the automotive world - "Sometimes there's no substitute for cubic-inches."
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Post by tomincle on Feb 20, 2019 9:56:37 GMT -5
I read the terrific review of the PA-1 and also own a XPA-2 G2, It really got my wheels spinning of how much cabinet space I could free up while retaining excellent sound. The first thing I thought of is if Emotiva wants the public to forget about what we all think we know about Class D amps, Why would they use a "PA" letter designation for something that is "audiophile" quality. Secondly why is there no matching preamp or at least reintroduce the DC-1 to go along with the SP-1.
Trust me this really got me thinking that I could fit a major two channel system in the space of two 1U rack system items.
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Post by randolfw on Feb 20, 2019 10:38:57 GMT -5
The MC-1 is the wall-foldable panel, right? How is the MiniDSP used in your system? And WHCIH MiniDSP do you have? 2x4 might work, but I'd suspect the 2x8 or even higher up the line to be more useable. Yes, the MC1 is a wall mounted panel and so are the rears. My home theater is also an actual living room so WAF was a major part of the equation and these are the best wall mounted speakers I have heard. The sweet spot is only a couple of couch cushions wide but sounds pretty fantastic . The MiniDSP is a 2x4 and is actually used for the subs. I thought I would be able to just buy 2 subs and plug them into the sub outs of the XMC-1, but it was not that simple... Dirac wants to eq each sub independently which causes real problems when playing a single note from a .1 channel. After a month of trying all the settings I gave up and run a single sub out to the MiniDSP and use it to adjust the delay and phase individually, then let Dirac do it's thing treating them as a single sub. Works really well, good clean bass down to 20hz. I am pushing some decent wattage to the MC1s with the old school Rotel (capable of 300+ at 4ohms), but it does get a bit harsh at high volumes. I actually wish they would just hurry up and release a multichannel with these modules. -Randy
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Post by garbulky on Feb 20, 2019 10:45:56 GMT -5
I read the terrific review of the PA-1 and also own a XPA-2 G2, It really got my wheels spinning of how much cabinet space I could free up while retaining excellent sound. The first thing I thought of is if Emotiva wants the public to forget about what we all think we know about Class D amps, Why would they use a "PA" letter designation for something that is "audiophile" quality. Secondly why is there no matching preamp or at least reintroduce the DC-1 to go along with the SP-1. Trust me this really got me thinking that I could fit a major two channel system in the space of two 1U rack system items. Having heard both I would say the PA-1 and XPA-2 gen 2 are two tonal presentations of the same thing. The XPA-2 is slightly weightier in its bass response while the PA-1 is slightly brighter. They are both very punchy and powerful with lots of detail in the bass and everywhere. Get the DC-1 used, they always come up on sale on the forum. And yeah the weight difference is stunning and so is the size difference. They are so small they don't even have to be in a rack. Plus if your speakers can bi amp there's always that option due to them being so affordable. Not that you need to of course. Just remember to leave the PA-1's turned ON. Don't put it in the auto off mode. They don't consume much power.
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Post by leonski on Feb 20, 2019 14:21:20 GMT -5
Any chance of a Low-Cut to the main speakers? They're not going to reproduce below a certain fairly high limit, anyway and you can take some of the strain off the amp by simply removing those frequeenciess prior to the amp....... That's why I was thinking MiNiDSP 2x8 or higher.
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Post by randolfw on Feb 20, 2019 16:29:51 GMT -5
Any chance of a Low-Cut to the main speakers? They're not going to reproduce below a certain fairly high limit, anyway and you can take some of the strain off the amp by simply removing those frequeenciess prior to the amp....... That's why I was thinking MiNiDSP 2x8 or higher. I have them set to small in the XMC-1 which I believe cuts them off around 100hz, so the load on the amp is lighter than a full range speaker. But I am really impressed with the MiniDSP, full parametric eq, phase, delay, high/low pass filter with slopes, really useful device. I am even just powering it off the upgrade USB on the back of the XMC-1. BTW, really enjoyed the PA-1 review. It is refreshing to see a reviewer get so excited about a piece of equipment. That elusive thrill of hearing an improvement in your setup is why we are all here. And it is even better when it is a surprise, so great job Boomzilla. -Randy
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