KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,883
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Post by KeithL on Feb 5, 2019 18:16:54 GMT -5
Thank you.
I'm not going to rant - but we really can't seem to win on this... If we refuse to share details until the product is finished - then some folks will complain that "we aren't being transparent".... However, if we share our plans, but some of them change along the way - then we get accused of "being misleading" or "confusing everyone".... Therefore, we do our best to steer a nice middle course, and share our plans, but only when they become reasonably likely not to change too much....
If you find this unacceptable, then the obvious solution is to stop reading the forum, and simply watch the website and read our product announcements. That way, you won't be confused by "forward looking plans", and will only see actual finished products when they're available for sale.
Until Emotiva comes out with a product, there 'ain't no' product. Not only can we not tell them what to make; we can't tell them what to think about what to make. We can however throw up a lot of verbiage (of which this is a prime example ).
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,470
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 5, 2019 18:38:52 GMT -5
While I certainly don't need a 100% differential balanced circuit design for all 16 channels, I'm definitely wanting it. In my case I've just always wanted a processor of superior design and will end up with an RMC-1L if it meets this circuit design, and if not then the RMC-1.
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 5, 2019 19:21:38 GMT -5
Thank you. I'm not going to rant - but we really can't seem to win on this... If we refuse to share details until the product is finished - then some folks will complain that "we aren't being transparent".... However, if we share our plans, but some of them change along the way - then we get accused of "being misleading" or "confusing everyone".... Therefore, we do our best to steer a nice middle course, and share our plans, but only when they become reasonably likely not to change too much.... If you find this unacceptable, then the obvious solution is to stop reading the forum, and simply watch the website and read our product announcements. That way, you won't be confused by "forward looking plans", and will only see actual finished products when they're available for sale.
Until Emotiva comes out with a product, there 'ain't no' product. Not only can we not tell them what to make; we can't tell them what to think about what to make. We can however throw up a lot of verbiage (of which this is a prime example ). Then you should also stop putting out advance display products at shows like CES and selling them as real products to come. Make it clear that they are prototypes or concepts, fine. But that's not what you guys have done. You guys don't throw around ideas there or on this forum. You basically make promises, and its THAT, that gets you the problems. When someone says things like "it WILL have 16 balanced channels," that's a promise.
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Post by audiosyndrome on Feb 5, 2019 19:29:36 GMT -5
Bonzo- give it a break. Your pessimism is too much and never ending.
Russ
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Post by audiosyndrome on Feb 5, 2019 19:33:55 GMT -5
YouTube videos last forever.... while the world changes around them. The latest information I have is that the RMC-1L will be the same as the RMC-1 EXCEPT for the lack of expansion bays. And, yes, I suppose that might be subject to change in the future - but I doubt it.
The decision was made based largely on the fact that it required a lot of extra work to use an entirely different PCB for each.
Thanks for the clarification! So the RMC-1L should then be fully balanced (16 channels). Makes sense. I do understand, that the XMC processors do have only XLR outputs, whether single ended circuitry or not. However, I do find this a little bit misleading. Why have all channels configured with XLR outputs, if the internal electronics of the processor do not support it? I would prefer RCA outputs for unbalanced channels. Then things are clear for everybody... Another recommendation: Use product code names (like: Lion, Tiger, Leopard etc.) for all stuff that is currently in development and which has not been released yet. Please stop using possible "official" product names for that products. It is not really helpful to move from " XMC-2" to " XMC-1 Gen3" and back to " XMC-2" or from " RMC-2" to " RMC-1L". All you do is creating chaos and confusion. Love the XLR connectors. Much easier to insert and remove cables than with RCA connectors, particularly the Monster type which are a b____ to twist off. Russ
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 5, 2019 19:53:28 GMT -5
Bonzo- give it a break. Your pessimism is too much and never ending. Russ I see you still love me, just like years ago. I ask, what is pessimistic about my post above? To me it helps try to resolve an issue. Because there is an ongoing issue. Again, creative criticism. As I've suggested before, I wish they would just put Jessica in charge of all P.R. here. She could be the filter. To date I think all of her posts I've read have been professional, polite, personable, on par, truthful, and completely honest. When she doesn't know something, or she knows Emotiva doesn't know something, she just says so. I find it very refreshing. As for the never ending part, thanks for the compliment. I'm as reliable, faithful, and loving as a good dog. Its unrelenting. ☺️
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Post by tchaik on Feb 5, 2019 20:02:21 GMT -5
Bonzo- give it a break. Your pessimism is too much and never ending. Russ agreed................... oppressively unrelenting is a more apt description..............
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 5, 2019 20:05:20 GMT -5
Okay enough about that stuff, back to the thread.
So IF the new information IS true, and I say IF, then the XMC-2 has lost a feature. BUT, not a big one in my eyes since I seriously doubt I could hear a difference between a balanced center and an unbalanced center.
Same goes for the RMC-1L, but it loses 13 balanced channels. Again, I can't say it phases me one bit. I doubt I could hear a difference. Never know until you try. If its an issue, pony up another grand and get the RMC-1.
But going back to the thread, with these changes, what makes the RMC-1L worth the extra grand over the XMC-2? 2 extra channels and 1 more balanced? For a grand? There has to be something I'm missing. Perhaps the one big thing that no one has talked about is, perhaps these changes mean price changes? Perhaps Emotiva felt there was too much similarity in there line in terms of price? Perhaps the new XMC-2 will remain at $2500, or even go down a little. Perhaps the RMC-1L will be $3250 or $3500. I am just totally talking out loud. Nothing worth talking about really. But it is what this thread is about. Asking why the lines....
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Post by foggy1956 on Feb 5, 2019 21:04:04 GMT -5
Bonzo- give it a break. Your pessimism is too much and never ending. Russ I see you still love me, just like years ago. I ask, what is pessimistic about my post above? To me it helps try to resolve an issue. Because there is an ongoing issue. Again, creative criticism. As I've suggested before, I wish they would just put Jessica in charge of all P.R. here. She could be the filter. To date I think all of her posts I've read have been professional, polite, personable, on par, truthful, and completely honest. When she doesn't know something, or she knows Emotiva doesn't know something, she just says so. I find it very refreshing. As for the never ending part, thanks for the compliment. I'm as reliable, faithful, and loving as a good dog. Its unrelenting. ☺️ But faithful and loving is not what you are exhibiting
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 5, 2019 21:32:30 GMT -5
But faithful and loving is not what you are exhibiting You're right, bad metaphor. Really. Seriously, not being a smart a$$, I don't love as unconditionally. And I expect more from humans, especially ones I know to be very intelligent. I'm not going to apologize for what I exhibit though, although I do think my lack of great writing skills obviously hinders me there. I am who I am, flaws and all.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Feb 5, 2019 22:52:49 GMT -5
By the way, on a completely different sub-topic, did anyone ever hook up the RMC-1 USB Input to a Linux system? I'd still like to see the output of "lsusb" when you do that. The USB Vendor should be one of XMOS's USB Vendor ID codes, but I also need to know the USB Device ID.
Casey
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Post by rbk123 on Feb 5, 2019 23:35:49 GMT -5
By the way, on a completely different sub-topic, did anyone ever hook up the RMC-1 USB Input to a Linux system? I'd still like to see the output of "lsusb" when you do that. The USB Vendor should be one of XMOS's USB Vendor ID codes, but I also need to know the USB Device ID. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess the answer is still no...
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Post by Casey Leedom on Feb 6, 2019 0:36:30 GMT -5
Thanks rbk123. As I've said before, I want to check on what kind of DSD support Linux has in sound/usb/quirks.c for the XMOS USB chip in use ... The chip almost certainly has support for "Native DSD" (instead of DSD over PCM encoding), the USB Vendor/Device IDs just need to be in the table. Casey
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Post by adaboy on Feb 6, 2019 1:02:17 GMT -5
But faithful and loving is not what you are exhibiting You're right, bad metaphor. Really. Seriously, not being a smart a$$, I don't love as unconditionally. And I expect more from humans, especially ones I know to be very intelligent. I'm not going to apologize for what I exhibit though, although I do think my lack of great writing skills obviously hinders me there. I am who I am, flaws and all. You are being underwhelming letting those folks get you down, notice they piled on you after one courageous poster. Keep it up bonzomite out.
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Post by alexreusch on Feb 6, 2019 1:26:14 GMT -5
Okay enough about that stuff, back to the thread. So I F the new information IS true, and I say IF, then the XMC-2 has lost a feature. BUT, not a big one in my eyes since I seriously doubt I could hear a difference between a balanced center and an unbalanced center. Same goes for the RMC-1L, but it loses 13 balanced channels. Again, I can't say it phases me one bit. I doubt I could hear a difference. Never know until you try. If its an issue, pony up another grand and get the RMC-1. But going back to the thread, with these changes, what makes the RMC-1L worth the extra grand over the XMC-2? 2 extra channels and 1 more balanced? For a grand? There has to be something I'm missing. Perhaps the one big thing that no one has talked about is, perhaps these changes mean price changes? Perhaps Emotiva felt there was too much similarity in there line in terms of price? Perhaps the new XMC-2 will remain at $2500, or even go down a little. Perhaps the RMC-1L will be $3250 or $3500. I am just totally talking out loud. Nothing worth talking about really. But it is what this thread is about. Asking why the lines.... Thanks for pointing it out. That were exaclty my thoughts! So in the worst case scenario, I really would not understand, why Emotiva should have two separate products for so little differentiation in features. But even IF the RMC-1L comes with 16 fully balanced channels as originally promised: I doubt that there is still a market for the XMC-2. Why? Because I believe the person that requires more than 7.2 channels, will also require more than 13 channels. I think that such a client is going for a system that provides at least 16 channels. If the XMC-2 will not be substantially cheaper as the RMC-1L, who should still go for an XMC-2? It does not make sense to me. Also, as Emotiva is a small company, that already has troubles getting the features of the flagship product working properly (where most issues seem to be about the HDMI board), should not have too many different HDMI processing platforms in their portfolio. It will eat up too many resources... If you still think you need a processor below the RMC-1L, than make the XMC-2 cheaper. Go for a 9.2 (instead of 11.2) configuration and only have L/R channel fully balanced. Reduce HDMI inputs to 4-6 ports (plus 2 outs). Pricepoint below $2'500.- Why should someone go for Emotiva in that price range of the XMC-2 instead of selecting another brand? Because it offers fully balanced stereo (input & output) channels and is therefore a great choice for audio lovers that want to use Emotiva in combination with their stereo music setup. Just my 5 cents.
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Post by musicfan on Feb 6, 2019 7:16:22 GMT -5
You're right, bad metaphor. Really. Seriously, not being a smart a$$, I don't love as unconditionally. And I expect more from humans, especially ones I know to be very intelligent. I'm not going to apologize for what I exhibit though, although I do think my lack of great writing skills obviously hinders me there. I am who I am, flaws and all. You are being underwhelming letting those folks get you down, notice they piled on you after one courageous poster. Keep it up bonzomite out. Exactly. They have a mob mentality over here. It’s obnoxious Bonzo speaks the truth. And it’s unfortunate the truth hurts
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Post by thrillcat on Feb 6, 2019 10:03:32 GMT -5
Thank you. I'm not going to rant - but we really can't seem to win on this... If we refuse to share details until the product is finished - then some folks will complain that "we aren't being transparent".... However, if we share our plans, but some of them change along the way - then we get accused of "being misleading" or "confusing everyone".... Therefore, we do our best to steer a nice middle course, and share our plans, but only when they become reasonably likely not to change too much.... If you find this unacceptable, then the obvious solution is to stop reading the forum, and simply watch the website and read our product announcements. That way, you won't be confused by "forward looking plans", and will only see actual finished products when they're available for sale.
Then you should also stop putting out advance display products at shows like CES and selling them as real products to come. Make it clear that they are prototypes or concepts, fine. But that's not what you guys have done. You guys don't throw around ideas there or on this forum. You basically make promises, and its THAT, that gets you the problems. When someone says things like "it WILL have 16 balanced channels," that's a promise. Like Keith said, stop digging for advance information and it won't be a problem.
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Post by emofrmcgy on Feb 6, 2019 10:10:13 GMT -5
So back on topic. I’m sure Bonzo’s back is starting to hurt from everyone climbing on it.
The difference between the rmc-1L and the xmc-2. Nothing, they are both still just an idea that Emotiva has expressed. No one here knows the truth, not Keith not Dan especially not any of the faithful Emo clan... or the Evil bonzomites. As of today they are on the same shelf as the Emersa emp-1 and the Stealth dc-2. Anything else is pure speculation and hearsay.
And...... Happy hump day.
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Post by davidl81 on Feb 6, 2019 10:18:10 GMT -5
Okay enough about that stuff, back to the thread. So I F the new information IS true, and I say IF, then the XMC-2 has lost a feature. BUT, not a big one in my eyes since I seriously doubt I could hear a difference between a balanced center and an unbalanced center. Same goes for the RMC-1L, but it loses 13 balanced channels. Again, I can't say it phases me one bit. I doubt I could hear a difference. Never know until you try. If its an issue, pony up another grand and get the RMC-1. But going back to the thread, with these changes, what makes the RMC-1L worth the extra grand over the XMC-2? 2 extra channels and 1 more balanced? For a grand? There has to be something I'm missing. Perhaps the one big thing that no one has talked about is, perhaps these changes mean price changes? Perhaps Emotiva felt there was too much similarity in there line in terms of price? Perhaps the new XMC-2 will remain at $2500, or even go down a little. Perhaps the RMC-1L will be $3250 or $3500. I am just totally talking out loud. Nothing worth talking about really. But it is what this thread is about. Asking why the lines.... Thanks for pointing it out. That were exaclty my thoughts! So in the worst case scenario, I really would not understand, why Emotiva should have two separate products for so little differentiation in features. But even IF the RMC-1L comes with 16 fully balanced channels as originally promised: I doubt that there is still a market for the XMC-2. Why? Because I believe the person that requires more than 7.2 channels, will also require more than 13 channels. I think that such a client is going for a system that provides at least 16 channels. If the XMC-2 will not be substantially cheaper as the RMC-1L, who should still go for an XMC-2? It does not make sense to me. Also, as Emotiva is a small company, that already has troubles getting the features of the flagship product working properly (where most issues seem to be about the HDMI board), should not have too many different HDMI processing platforms in their portfolio. It will eat up too many resources... If you still think you need a processor below the RMC-1L, than make the XMC-2 cheaper. Go for a 9.2 (instead of 11.2) configuration and only have L/R channel fully balanced. Reduce HDMI inputs to 4-6 ports (plus 2 outs). Pricepoint below $2'500.- Why should someone go for Emotiva in that price range of the XMC-2 instead of selecting another brand? Because it offers fully balanced stereo (input & output) channels and is therefore a great choice for audio lovers that want to use Emotiva in combination with their stereo music setup. Just my 5 cents. I think cost wise it actually makes sense to have the same HDMI solution in all three processors. That way it is the same hardware/software shared by all of the units. It would be much more cost efficient to go this route rather then have a small savings on a 4 input board, but having to develop software for that board.
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Post by rbk123 on Feb 6, 2019 11:18:34 GMT -5
As of today they are on the same shelf as the Emersa emp-1 and the Stealth dc-2. Anything else is pure speculation and hearsay. I'm waiting for their mega-soundbar they showed off. Shouldn't be long now..
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