|
Post by milsap195 on Mar 19, 2019 12:37:22 GMT -5
Still loving my Carver 180’s and vta20s that I purchased from big Dan
|
|
|
Post by ffrosie on Aug 16, 2021 23:57:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by 405x5 on Aug 17, 2021 9:00:53 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by mgbpuff on Aug 17, 2021 10:07:12 GMT -5
Most who crave the SOUND of vacuum tubes are unaware of the fact that the sound has been available for DECADES via smart solid state technology with the option to choose between both without having to fuss with the outdated tubes themselves. I have had this option available in my own system since 2001. View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentBut it doesn't have that glow!
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,944
Member is Online
|
Post by KeithL on Aug 17, 2021 10:46:21 GMT -5
I should point out that, while that is the claim, there's a bit more to it than that...
There are SEVERAL different things that contribute to "tube sound".
What many tube fans describe as "sweet sounding midrange" or something like that is the result of a specific distortion profile. Tube amps and preamps tend to have slightly higher distortion than solid state amps, it tends to be predominantly second harmonic rather than third and higher harmonics, and it tends to increase more or less linearly with output level.
Tube power amps that use output transformers (which is almost all of them) have additional rather distinctive sound characteristics. Even the best output transformers introduce various additional distortions, non-linearities, and phase shifts. Tube amplifiers also tend to have higher distortion in part because they use lesser amounts of feedback. (This is partly a design choice and partly a design limitation due to the phase shifts encountered in output transformers.)
Tube power amplifiers also tend to have a more linear distortion profile. Their distortion tends to increase linearly with their output power rather than remain very low, then jump up suddenly near clipping, as it does with most solid state amps. This is especially prevalent in "single ended triode" amps, which have relatively high levels of distortion, and a very a linear distortion curve.
And, FINALLY, tube power amps all have a relatively low DAMPING FACTOR. Damping factor is determined by output impedance - and determines how tightly the amplifier is able to control the speaker's movement - specifically the woofer cone. The major effect of varying the damping factor is in the amount and "tightness" of the bass produced by various speakers. And the effect of varying the damping factor will vary significantly between different speakers.
(Many modern speakers, designed to work with a high damping factor, tend to sound "thundery and sloppy" with tube amps...)
(Many speakers with high internal damping, designed to work with amplifiers like tube amps, with relatively low damping factors, sound "thin" or "overdamped" when connected to an amp with a high damping factor.)
What the "current source output"on the Sunfire amps does is to offer an output with a relatively low damping factor. (They put a 1 Ohm resistor in series with the output - which simulates the high output impedance of a tube power amp.) This will typically "make the bass on your speaker sound more like it would when connected to a tube amp". However, while it may have some slight effect at midrange and upper frequencies, it DOES NOT mimic the distortion spectrum or distortion profile of a tube amplifier.
So, while that output on your Sunfire amp "will sound a little bit more like a tube amp in the bass", it will not add the other "tube sound characteristics", particularly at mid and upper frequencies.
Incidentally, strictly speaking, this is NOT a true current source output, but merely a voltage source output with a relatively high output impedance. (It is possible to design a true current-source amplifier, but they don't work especially well when connected to normal loudspeakers, and don't sound particularly like tubes either.)
Also, incidentally, anyone who wishes to try this for themselves can do so rather easily... Simply add a 1 Ohm power resistor in series with each positive speaker output on your amplifier (splice it into the speaker cable). 1 Ohm will give you a DF of 8 with 8 Ohm speakers and a DF of 4 with 4 Ohm speakers.
(You want a nice big non-inductive power resistor rated for at least 1/10 the power your speakers are rated for... and note that it may get quite hot in normal operation.)
Most who crave the SOUND of vacuum tubes are unaware of the fact that the sound has been available for DECADES via smart solid state technology with the option to choose between both without having to fuss with the outdated tubes themselves. I have had this option available in my own system since 2001. View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView Attachment
|
|
|
Post by mgbpuff on Aug 17, 2021 11:21:25 GMT -5
All true, KeithL. However, Bob Carver did prove that he could simulate the sound of any amp, tube or SS, by manipulation of the transfer function properties via an op amp amplifier. Also, tubes are not inherently even harmonic producers while ss is not. Tubes used in push-pull circuitry have low even harmonic distortion because of the self cancelling nature of a push pull circuit. Tube amps used single ended do indeed show more 2nd harmonic and even harmonics due to 1) lack of a push pull circuit to eliminate even harmonics, and 2)due to non-linearity of the characteristic curve of a tube especially when used with little or no feedback correction. SS amps can exhibit lots of distortion if not linearized via feed back, but feedback is easier to implement with solid state and virtually every ss amp is of push pull design. Nelson Pass made a single ended solid state amp that had the same second and even harmonic distortion profile assigned to tube amps in general. Déjà vu all over again!
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,223
|
Post by novisnick on Aug 17, 2021 11:26:40 GMT -5
I recently purchased a Prima Luna Evo 300 Integrated Amp for my 2.0 set up and it is so dang sweet to my ears. I've paired it with an Auralic Altair G1 for streaming and it is like I am rediscovering my music all over again. I haven't got to roll any tubes yet, been really happy with the EL34s that run it, but I am hearing great things about the Tung Sol 7581A tubes. I currently have a matching set of Golden Lion KT88s on order and can't wait for those. This is my first tube experience and I am beyond ecstatic! View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView Attachment Why oh why have you caged those tubes, set thy prisoners free!
|
|
|
Post by monkumonku on Aug 17, 2021 11:52:54 GMT -5
I tell ya, if you like tubes then by all means use tube equipment! If you like SS, then use SS equipment! If you like both, then use both! Why should I care what you use? I don't have your ears!!!
|
|
|
Post by 405x5 on Aug 17, 2021 12:22:55 GMT -5
I tell ya, if you like tubes then by all means use tube equipment! If you like SS, then use SS equipment! If you like both, then use both! Why should I care what you use? I don't have your ears!!! Should you be so lucky!😊
|
|
|
Post by pallpoul on Aug 17, 2021 18:07:15 GMT -5
I recently purchased a Prima Luna Evo 300 Integrated Amp for my 2.0 set up and it is so dang sweet to my ears. I've paired it with an Auralic Altair G1 for streaming and it is like I am rediscovering my music all over again. I haven't got to roll any tubes yet, been really happy with the EL34s that run it, but I am hearing great things about the Tung Sol 7581A tubes. I currently have a matching set of Golden Lion KT88s on order and can't wait for those. This is my first tube experience and I am beyond ecstatic! View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentI have used my Prima Luna Dialogue HP with my Klipschorn speakers, 75th ann, for a while and to my ears it has won me over at hello. Recently I bought the Cary Audio SL-100 (with the KT-150's tubes), and while it is still in breaking-in mode, it makes for a comparable listening experience with the k-Horns, although the sound is a bit more forward. I have a new EVO 400 IA coming my way, will see how it compares to the Dialogue HP IA, paired with the La Scala's. Enjoy your music and your system.
|
|
|
Post by bluemeanies on Aug 18, 2021 7:02:45 GMT -5
Most who crave the SOUND of vacuum tubes are unaware of the fact that the sound has been available for DECADES via smart solid state technology with the option to choose between both without having to fuss with the outdated tubes themselves. I have had this option available in my own system since 2001. View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentI like TUBES better than SS for music IMO. Everyone has a particular flavor they enjoy more than another for their own specific reasons. The fact is BOB CARVER does tube amplification. With Bob Carvers approval.. There's nothing like the sound of tubes – a fact iconic audio designer Bob Caver knows as well as anyone. Responsible for some of the most revered valve designs in the history of high-end audio, Carver marries beautiful, sweet-sounding tube performance with stop-you-in-your-tracks value in the Crimson 275 Stereo amplifier. Inspired by its Crimson 350 sibling and hand-built in the U.S.A., this gorgeous powerhouse is fueled by the same Tung-Sol KT120 tubes as Carver's monoblock amps. It plays with a richness, fullness, warmth, and boldness that take you to the edge of the studio (or concert) stage. It’s a choice.. you like SS..I like Amber. There is a difference when listening to music with tubes.
|
|
|
Post by 405x5 on Aug 18, 2021 8:15:47 GMT -5
Most who crave the SOUND of vacuum tubes are unaware of the fact that the sound has been available for DECADES via smart solid state technology with the option to choose between both without having to fuss with the outdated tubes themselves. I have had this option available in my own system since 2001. View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentI like TUBES better than SS for music IMO. Everyone has a particular flavor they enjoy more than another for their own specific reasons. The fact is BOB CARVER does tube amplification. With Bob Carvers approval.. There's nothing like the sound of tubes – a fact iconic audio designer Bob Caver knows as well as anyone. Responsible for some of the most revered valve designs in the history of high-end audio, Carver marries beautiful, sweet-sounding tube performance with stop-you-in-your-tracks value in the Crimson 275 Stereo amplifier. Inspired by its Crimson 350 sibling and hand-built in the U.S.A., this gorgeous powerhouse is fueled by the same Tung-Sol KT120 tubes as Carver's monoblock amps. It plays with a richness, fullness, warmth, and boldness that take you to the edge of the studio (or concert) stage. It’s a choice.. you like SS..I like Amber. There is a difference when listening to music with tubes. Of course Carver has done tubes also for decades. The guy could build anything. Not about personal preference. It’s about the ABILITY to cater to ALL… Why not ?? A pile of MONEY to be made
|
|
|
Post by ffrosie on Aug 21, 2021 16:52:08 GMT -5
I recently purchased a Prima Luna Evo 300 Integrated Amp for my 2.0 set up and it is so dang sweet to my ears. I've paired it with an Auralic Altair G1 for streaming and it is like I am rediscovering my music all over again. I haven't got to roll any tubes yet, been really happy with the EL34s that run it, but I am hearing great things about the Tung Sol 7581A tubes. I currently have a matching set of Golden Lion KT88s on order and can't wait for those. This is my first tube experience and I am beyond ecstatic! View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView Attachment Why oh why have you caged those tubes, set thy prisoners free! HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I laughed really hard when I saw this just the other day! I know it may be sacrilege to do this, but for some reason I believe that they look good in their cage too! Also - kids!
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,223
|
Post by novisnick on Aug 21, 2021 17:31:06 GMT -5
Why oh why have you caged those tubes, set thy prisoners free! HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I laughed really hard when I saw this just the other day! I know it may be sacrilege to do this, but for some reason I believe that they look good in their cage too! Also - kids! They’d only touch them once! 🤣 Seriously though, tiny fingers are a priority!
|
|
weber
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 9
|
Post by weber on Oct 27, 2021 5:50:33 GMT -5
For me tubes rule. I have a pair of Nola speakers and they love tube amplifiers. I'm currently using a 15 year old Jolida 502b amp. I have completely rebuild. All new soild core pure silver wiring. New caps and resistors and so all. Replaced the speaker post and rca jacks with high quality silverplated ones. The driver tubes are nos tubes. The KT88 tubes are JJ tubes. I should be able to enjoy this highly modified amp for 15 years more.
|
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Oct 27, 2021 7:23:08 GMT -5
The Willsenton R8 (KT88/EL34) and Willsenton R-800i (300B/805 or 845) have been getting lots of press lately. Decently priced as well.
|
|
|
Post by 405x5 on Oct 28, 2023 15:55:50 GMT -5
So today after somebody talked about the need for at least testing out tube amplifiers with some new speakers it got me to thinking once again about testing those tubes……
back to the pharmacy? (No more) another place way back when where they had those gigantic tube testing machines With the big meter that said “good or bad.” With tube amplifiers being so lauded by audiophiles what’s the best way these days to be sure that your vacuum tubes are delivering the goods? Today I went looking for answers in the 21st-century, and came up with more questions instead as if this hobby wasn’t enough of a jungle. I gave up, so what are you guys do?
|
|
|
Post by audiobill on Oct 28, 2023 17:31:00 GMT -5
I have a tube tester....
But the best way is to listen for deterioration in power or dynamics, or increase in low level noise.
Of course, this means trusting your ears.
|
|
|
Post by 405x5 on Oct 28, 2023 18:07:19 GMT -5
I have a tube tester.... But the best way is to listen for deterioration in power or dynamics, or increase in low level noise. Of course, this means trusting your ears. OK, so that’s what I did back in the day when tubes were the only choice. So I guess nothing‘s really changed is the answer. I do remember in my preamp (I think they were 12ax7) And when they went south, (at least, in my set up,) it was some crazy, fuzzy stuff going on…… Those were the days.
|
|
|
Post by audiobill on Oct 28, 2023 18:09:44 GMT -5
No crazy, fuzzy stuff here, to be sure!
|
|