A PAINFUL, EXPENSIVE HABIT, HOBBY, DECISION MAKING

[cgolf]

In my "never ending quest" to find audio nirvana, to just get a little more SQ for 2 channel music, which truthfully, I know doesn't really exist, at least not the "I'm there", I have found myself purchasing a handful of vintage 2 channel receivers and amps over the past few years. I get them, play them , enjoy them and then decide to sell them and get the next better one.

In general, anything I have purchased over the years, whether it be audio, cars, guns, whatever, I have always either broken even, made some $$, or a few times, maybe lost just a few dollars. Overall, certainly ahead, however, with these vintage 2 channels, I seem to have lost more than a few dollars reselling them. Not a huge amount, but certainly more than I am happy with. I have decided that either that is not a market to play with, or I just don't understand the market, or else I need to get one and keep it!! :-)

Anyone else have a similar story? Great with most markets but maybe not so great with one in particular?

[405x5]

Jeez!
I don’t know 🤔, especially with that thread title....perhaps it’s time for you to pack it in.

Bill

[vcautokid]

Nothing wrong at all with this. Do you know how stupid this can get? Unobtanium power cables, hyper expensive everything, it is chasing something that may not really be there. Is the chase better than the destination? Are you where want to be? When does it stop? Most people haven't a clue on that. They love the pursuit. I used to too. Now with all the stupid chasing of standards in Home Theater, and it really is stupid so don't argue with me. You will lose.

In 2 channel, it is allot nicer. But even then, it is so easy to when is when. Your emotional chemistry, and what is real to you where are, are what you are. I stop chasing it a while back, and went after more fun things to listen too, and help others figure it out. Those who enjoy the chase, awesome. Those who would rather look for new things to listen for or love their favorites from where they are, are allot more happy. Les Paul enjoyed listening to a cheap Panasonic AM/FM cassette unit in his kitchen. A master of the solid body guitar, and a great studio just in the next room loved that little thing.

So you don't need allot to get allot. Perspective folks. $50,000.00 pair of speakers might be great or not. I will not know, or ever care. I can never own a pair, so I won't waste my time on them. I look for killer bargains if anything at all. I don't need to spend large to live large. Your mileage may vary.

[boomzilla]

HI cgolf -

I'm infamous for my buying and selling of gear (and perhaps even that's an understatement). But I can say that every once in a while, a component comes through that is "just right." And for both me and you - unless you have had the opportunity to hear a lot of equipment, you may not even recognize the gear that you really love.

I've always been a proponent of "the less electronics in the signal path, the better." And guess what? I recently got a preamp that blew my attitude out of the water. I also recently stumbled across a pair of mono power amps (the Emotiva PA-1s) that are absolute "keepers." If I hadn't already heard about a half-a-million other components, I might have never realized how excellent these components are. So the money that I've lost over the years trying things that I just wasn't ultimately satisfied with was well spent after all. Because now, when I hear a winner, I recognize it.

Now that said, just because a specific component is a world-beater in my room and to my ears doesn't mean that everybody else would feel the same about it - but I know what I like. And had I not heard so many other components, I might not.

Now if you're under budgetary constraints, then you probably have no business churning used gear too much. But if you can afford the hobby, I predict that you'll eventually find your groove. And your "ultimate" choices may not even be the most expensive gear you've heard, either. Mine weren't.

Happy shopping - Boom

[brubacca]

Just like people talk about googling something, we talk about Boomzilling when we refer to the acquusition and selling of gear!

[cgolf]

Mar 10, 2019 16:32:18 GMT -5 405x5 said:

Jeez!
I don’t know 🤔, especially with that thread title....perhaps it’s time for you to pack it in.

Bill

Even losing a dollar has some level of pain so it's all relative... . Nothing to fret about, just pontificating!! haha

[405x5]

Mar 11, 2019 8:06:34 GMT -5 cgolf said:

Mar 10, 2019 16:32:18 GMT -5 405x5 said:

Jeez!
I don’t know 🤔, especially with that thread title....perhaps it’s time for you to pack it in.

Bill

Even losing a dollar has some level of pain so it's all relative... . Nothing to fret about, just pontificating!! haha

Yeah, I know.... I was just pulling your leg 🦵!
With regards to Audio Nirvana, some say it’s unattainable, yet I found it, on a personal level many years ago.
The sound generated from the drivers of Allison Acoustics hit my ears like magic in 1977, and I’ve built on that ever since.
Altogether, I’ve owned 5 pair, and still own 4; used in various combinations of stereo and multichannel, configuration.
Later on, Subwoofer integration, really brought them into the “big leagues”.
Lots of electronic gear came and went during all of that time but at the heart of it is the sound generated from certain loudspeakers that ultimately gets you where you want to be (I think 🤔)

Bill

[mgbpuff]

It's a hobby, not a business.

[boomzilla]

And even with what I’ve spent, it’s still less than ONE nice boat, motor, and trailer rig - or for that matter, less than my cousin’s closets of guns. Definitely less than neighbor’s car collection!

[vcautokid]

But the business is driven by our hobby. Enthusiasts drive the companies to create more.They will start out sure, but trends driven by what is desired and exciting is both driven by invention and our reaction. The High End will be a bit more their own thing, and the slightly lower end pays a bit more attention to us. Streaming, and so on.

[knucklehead]

My two most costly hobbies are audio, and golf. Golf is the most expensive, I pay $165 per month even if I can't play. $15 is for cart storage and electricity to keen the batteries up. And every 5-6 years I need 4 new 12v batteries. That's another 1000 dollar bill. I have been walking the course with my 3 wheeler push cart 2-3 times per week. I play 4-5 times per week. 18 holes equals about 6.50 miles. At 71 I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to be able to do that. I consider golfing to be my 'health plan'. I just couldn't convince my Dr. to write me a prescription for it. WTH! It is healthy, after all.

Audio only costs me the electricity as long as I don't get infected with that damned upgrade bug. For now I'm very satisfied with what I have. Very good stereo, and decent 5.2. No plans on using the 2070's Atmos ability. I'm about 95% music as it is.

I also have two other hobbies that have been on a starvation diet, photography (I only have 3 digital cameras), and astronomy. I have 2 telescopes, a 10" dob, and a 127mm Maksutov. I need a goto drive for it, I've forgotten where a lot of the Messier Objects are.

[405x5]

Mar 11, 2019 14:21:27 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

My two most costly hobbies are audio, and golf. Golf is the most expensive, I pay $165 per month even if I can't play. $15 is for cart storage and electricity to keen the batteries up. And every 5-6 years I need 4 new 12v batteries. That's another 1000 dollar bill. I have been walking the course with my 3 wheeler push cart 2-3 times per week. I play 4-5 times per week. 18 holes equals about 6.50 miles. At 71 I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to be able to do that. I consider golfing to be my 'health plan'. I just couldn't convince my Dr. to write me a prescription for it. WTH! It is healthy, after all.

Audio only costs me the electricity as long as I don't get infected with that damned upgrade bug. For now I'm very satisfied with what I have. Very good stereo, and decent 5.2. No plans on using the 2070's Atmos ability. I'm about 95% music as it is.

I also have two other hobbies that have been on a starvation diet, photography (I only have 3 digital cameras), and astronomy. I have 2 telescopes, a 10" dob, and a 127mm Maksutov. I need a goto drive for it, I've forgotten where a lot of the Messier Objects are.

I assume you keep with you an extra pair of slacks 👖

In case you get
A hole in one

[moe]

You play,you pay. I have friends that spend 5k to go to Disney land for a week and think it's the best money they ever spent (usually the wife). It's all entertainment one way or the other. I prefer having stuff next week instead of a memory of how great last week was. If you spend money you don't have to spend, it may be a problem, otherwise, enjoy your life.

[405x5]

Mar 12, 2019 9:18:00 GMT -5 moe said:

You play,you pay. I have friends that spend 5k to go to Disney land for a week and think it's the best money they ever spent (usually the wife). It's all entertainment one way or the other. I prefer having stuff next week instead of a memory of how great last week was. If you spend money you don't have to spend, it may be a problem, otherwise, enjoy your life.

I deal with both of those....
My brother has the same passion as I regarding audio gear, but his audio budget takes a back seat to Disney for the sake of the family (and rightfully so)!

My wife loves home theater 🎭 yay!
My sister in law eyes 👀 the two brothers when we crank it and just shakes her head and sez we’re just gonna go deaf.

Bill

[cgolf]

All hobbies are or can be expensive. I was moving my speakers around last night just to see what different sounds I could get. Before I knew it, I was already buying different speakers (only in my mind thank goodness!! ). Thankfully I do have some degree of self restraint and discipline and didn't buy anything.

Quite happy with my current setup but you don't know what you don't know until you find out.

[davidl81]

Mar 12, 2019 13:20:39 GMT -5 cgolf said:

All hobbies are or can be expensive. I was moving my speakers around last night just to see what different sounds I could get. Before I knew it, I was already buying different speakers (only in my mind thank goodness!! ). Thankfully I do have some degree of self restraint and discipline and didn't buy anything.

Quite happy with my current setup but you don't know what you don't know until you find out.

What is this self restraint you speak of, and how can one obtain this? 

[moe]

It is a legit point that until you own/audition lots of different gear you really don't appreciate the differences. That's evident by the "they all sound the same" group. I'm in the plenty of em' sound the same but not all camp. The thing about that is personal.I have friends that I sell parts of my old sets and they think it's the best there is. It's only next time they're over and hear the new set they're like, wow, that's impressive. Then their wives are like, you can forget that, we're goin' to the mountains, for the 50th time. It is a bonus to have a significant other (my wife) that understands that's part of what she signed up for some decades back....

[monkumonku]

Mar 12, 2019 13:20:39 GMT -5 cgolf said:

All hobbies are or can be expensive. I was moving my speakers around last night just to see what different sounds I could get. Before I knew it, I was already buying different speakers (only in my mind thank goodness!! ). Thankfully I do have some degree of self restraint and discipline and didn't buy anything.

Quite happy with my current setup but you don't know what you don't know until you find out.

At that particular moment, that is. Today's a brand new day, though.

[geeqner]

I think that the "trick" to keeping the beast in check is to be REALISTIC:


REALISTIC ABOUT YOUR BUDGET - I find it "fun" to see what's out there on the bleeding edge of performance and even get to hear some of it occasionally.
Am I upset that I cannot / will never be able to afford such equipment?  Not really.  I'm mostly happy with what I have - read-on to understand why.
On the other hand - there are some INCREDIBLE bargains out there, and many of them are from Emotiva - so you're already in the right place

Also - be sure that you're "getting ALL of the SMALL / cheap stuff RIGHT first".  Play with your speaker placement which costs you NADA! and stuff like that.

If you're knowledgeable about vintage gear and restoration of such gear - you have access to some real bargains.


REALISTIC ABOUT WHAT IS ACHIEVABLE IN YOUR CHOSEN LISTENING ENVIRONMENT - I find that many people ignore the fact that 30% or more of your sound system consists of the room in which it is located.  The room imposes limits on what you can and cannot achieve within it.  Also, if you're involved with a (Significant Other / Rommate) who is particular about the appearance of said room - your choices of speakers and where you may be allowed to place them is EVEN FURTHER limited.  In such cases, learn to choose the speaker size and type that will work best within the imposed limitations.  (I'd LOVE a pair of Klipschhorns in our Living Room, and my wife would be fine with that AFTER I sign the divorce paperwork or upon her assuming room temperature... )

Those $30,000 Vandersteen speakers sound OUT-STAND-ING at the audio store where you heard them - but remember that the demo was in a carefully acoustically treated room, and the speakers were out in the open with NO furniture obstructing them.  If you can (mostly) duplicate the room and the equipment - you can probably / nearly duplicate the sound.  If this option is not available to you, you may need to adjust your expectations and attempt to achieve the best possible sound within the limitations of the room / allowable decor options

WANT "TOTAL" CONTROL OVER THE LISTENING ENVIRONMENT - If music is a "personal" thing to you, consider investing in a quality pair of headphones and optimum amp and gear for that!  In this case, the "environment" is the space between the earcups and yer ears.


REALISTIC ABOUT THE AGE OF YOUR EQUIPMENT - Some Electronic components (mostly power capacitors and potentiometers) gradually deteriorate over time.  Good stuff lasts a LONG time, but age eventually catches-up to even the best of it.  If you are into Vintage Gear or if you own quality gear that you bought new 20-plus years ago, it may be time to update or replace some of that gear.  The sound may have deteriorated so gradually, that you may be unaware that it has actually happened.  Maybe try an in-home audition of something affordable but newer as a "check" against this.


REALISTIC ABOUT YOUR HEARING / YOUR EARS - As we get older, ALL of our senses, including our hearing, slowly deteriorates.  Active Listening / "training" your ears CAN actually improve your ability to hear or perceive certain nuances but at some point, we are ALL susceptible to "father time"...  If your research indicates that a tiny performance increase is likely to be heard and you are already at the "almost there" point - it probably isn't worth it at that point. 


REALISTIC ABOUT THE "POINT OF DIMINISHING RETURNS" - Audiophile gear is like fine wine.  There is ALWAYS "something better" out there.  The REAL question is "how much gain do I get for the money?" vs.  "Will I be able to actually perceive it?" and "if I can afford it, is it WORTH it?" .  Once you get to the point of "I'm ALMOST there" - it becomes harder and harder and each step-up costs an ever increasing amount of hard-to-come-by moolah.


I'm ALWAYS looking / reading / researching - but my purchases are now pretty infrequent and carefully "targeted" with the above factors serving to "focus" my efforts
(I also avoid Audio GAS by exploring alternative outlets - like fishing GAS and photography GAS  .

Sometimes, the best "cure" is to simply toss-on some of your favorite tunes, kick-back, and ENJOY! 

[rockman85]

Mar 10, 2019 20:07:08 GMT -5 boomzilla said:

HI cgolf -

I'm infamous for my buying and selling of gear (and perhaps even that's an understatement). But I can say that every once in a while, a component comes through that is "just right." And for both me and you - unless you have had the opportunity to hear a lot of equipment, you may not even recognize the gear that you really love.

I've always been a proponent of "the less electronics in the signal path, the better." And guess what? I recently got a preamp that blew my attitude out of the water. I also recently stumbled across a pair of mono power amps (the Emotiva PA-1s) that are absolute "keepers." If I hadn't already heard about a half-a-million other components, I might have never realized how excellent these components are. So the money that I've lost over the years trying things that I just wasn't ultimately satisfied with was well spent after all. Because now, when I hear a winner, I recognize it.

Now that said, just because a specific component is a world-beater in my room and to my ears doesn't mean that everybody else would feel the same about it - but I know what I like. And had I not heard so many other components, I might not.

Now if you're under budgetary constraints, then you probably have no business churning used gear too much. But if you can afford the hobby, I predict that you'll eventually find your groove. And your "ultimate" choices may not even be the most expensive gear you've heard, either. Mine weren't.

Happy shopping - Boom

Did you replace your A-300 with the PA-1s?